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8th Amendment

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Comments

  • #212
    keane2097
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,828 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    Yes, of course.

    Obviously you know what's coming, but this belief for you doesn't extend to the killing of unborn children abroad?

    Just trying to clarify your position, because this fumbling around with "killing unborn children" vs saying "murder" or whatever just mires the discussion.


  • #213
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    c_man wrote: »
    So is there any chance of something happening on this before the next general election?

    Not a chance.


  • #214
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,644 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    We'll go with that, given there's no evidence to the contrary.

    No, I'll wait for the actual numbers when they are reported.


  • #215
    ec18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,789 ✭✭✭ec18


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    Give me the 8th and X legislation over an day, over abortion on request regimes in our near neighbours.

    The point is that it's not all about you and your beliefs, it's about peoples right to make choices based on their circumstances, beliefs and any relevant medical advice


  • #216
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    Huntergonzo wrote: »
    Correct, if she got due care = the abortion she needed then she probably would be alive today.

    Listen abortions aren't ideal but fact of the matter is Irish women are going to have them whether you or anybody else has an aversion to them or not, but exporting then problem is not the way to deal with it.

    Ps, why do you have an aversion to abortion?

    Baloney and shameful to boot. Hijacking Savita's deaht to peddle your agenda for abortion.


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  • #217
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    keane2097 wrote: »
    Obviously you know what's coming, but this belief for you doesn't extend to the killing of unborn children abroad?

    Just trying to clarify your position, because this fumbling around with "killing unborn children" vs saying "murder" or whatever just mires the discussion.
    The Constitution enshrines the right to travel.


  • #218
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    No, I'll wait for the actual numbers when they are reported.

    At the moment no unborn baby has been intentionally killed in Ireland, unless you have evidence to the contrary?


  • #219
    keane2097
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,828 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    The Constitution enshrines the right to travel.

    That wasn't what I asked you, I know what the constitution says.

    I'll pose the question slightly more clearly.

    Do you think people who kill unborn babies abroad ought to be subject to punishment when they come home?


  • #220
    Lux23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    The Constitution enshrines the right to travel.

    So you are more concerned with abortions happening in Ireland then, if it happens abroad it doesn't count?


  • #221
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    ec18 wrote: »
    The point is that it's not all about you and your beliefs, it's about peoples right to make choices based on their circumstances, beliefs and any relevant medical advice

    Go ahead and advocate for repealing the 8th. Give it your best shot, along with Averil, Ivana, Ruth and Claire.

    Its just a shame it takes something like killing unborn babies that gets some people all interested in public affairs.

    If you succeed you will be met with fierce opposition and the People will decide, again.


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  • #222
    ec18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,789 ✭✭✭ec18


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    Baloney and shameful to boot. Hijacking Savita's deaht to peddle your agenda for abortion.

    Didn't the inquiry conclude that based on medical evidence available an abortion would have saved her?


  • #223
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    keane2097 wrote: »
    That wasn't what I asked you, I know what the constitution says.

    I'll pose the question slightly more clearly.

    Do you think people who kill unborn babies abroad ought to be subject to punishment when they come home?

    I fail to see the point of imprisoning women who have already been violent assaulted by an abortionist.


  • #224
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    Lux23 wrote: »
    So you are more concerned with abortions happening in Ireland then, if it happens abroad it doesn't count?

    We only have the ability to maintain our own laws, not other country's


  • #225
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    ec18 wrote: »
    Didn't the inquiry conclude that based on medical evidence available an abortion would have saved her?

    Got a link to that?


  • #226
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,644 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    The Constitution enshrines the right to travel.

    Only for abortions, you can't travel to commit murder.


  • #227
    ec18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,789 ✭✭✭ec18


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    Go ahead and advocate for repealing the 8th. Give it your best shot, along with Averil, Ivana, Ruth and Claire.

    Its just a shame it takes something like killing unborn babies that gets some people all interested in public affairs.

    If you succeed you will be met with fierce opposition and the People will decide, again.

    See you at the debate table then, I'm not looking forward to the half truths and misleading arguments that will crop up from bother sides of the argument. If this does come up it will be a very bitter and cynical campaign with some horribly graphic (and irrelevant) images from the anti choice side


  • #228
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,644 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    At the moment no unborn baby has been intentionally killed in Ireland, unless you have evidence to the contrary?

    Since the numbers have not been reported, nobody has evidence to the contrary.

    But it is no longer against the law to kill "unborns".


  • #229
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    Only for abortions, you can't travel to commit murder.

    Correct, afaik.


  • #230
    Larbre34
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,945 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    At the moment no unborn baby has been intentionally killed in Ireland, unless you have evidence to the contrary?

    I would regard that as very naive.

    Leaving aside back street abortions and the morning after pill, Ive heard medical professionals talk about early term abortions in seriously ill women where the procedure is just part of overall necessary treatment. Obviously some clinicians refuse to go down that road and you get the cruel and inhumane violation of their oath where they direct very ill people travel to the UK for the procedure, a procedure that is often to improve their own chances of survival or to prevent catastrophic deformation in an infant due to other treatment they are receiving.


  • #231
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,644 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    ec18 wrote: »
    Didn't the inquiry conclude that based on medical evidence available an abortion would have saved her?

    They hedged with ifs and probablys, because no-one can say for certain, but yes. I quoted the report upthread.


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  • #232
    keane2097
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,828 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    I fail to see the point of imprisoning women who have already been violent assaulted by an abortionist.

    Do you think a woman who procures an abortion in Ireland should be punished?


  • #233
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,644 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    We only have the ability to maintain our own laws, not other country's

    But we will prosecute people who murder abroad. But not those who abort.

    Because we all know the 8th is nonsense.


  • #234
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    ec18 wrote: »
    See you at the debate table then,

    And that is where I'll leave this discussion for now.

    Its not a live issue and if FF/FG are the next government it will continue not to be.

    I have other battles to fight.

    If it seems the 8th may be in danger I'll be back. :)


  • #235
    Glenman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 978 ✭✭✭Glenman


    ec18 wrote: »
    See you at the debate table then, I'm not looking forward to the half truths and misleading arguments that will crop up from bother sides of the argument. If this does come up it will be a very bitter and cynical campaign with some horribly graphic (and irrelevant) images from the anti choice side

    Yes, Youth Defense for example do use very graphic images on some of their posters but these are just images from abortion procedures so if people don't like them then they shouldn't be pushing for abortion legislation.


  • #236
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    keane2097 wrote: »
    Do you think a woman who procures an abortion in Ireland should be punished?

    Listen Judge Judy, leave it til the debate becomes relevant.

    For now, Ireland is abortion free. Embrace these times.


  • #237
    keane2097
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,828 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    Listen Judge Judy, leave it til the debate becomes relevant.

    For now, Ireland is abortion free. Embrace these times.

    Something about saying you wouldn't punish women who had an abortion abroad but you would punish women who had one in Ireland sticks in the craw I see. Fancy that.


  • #238
    c_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    Not a chance.

    So what's the most likely outcome then, a GE with abortion as one of the main topics? I suppose we'd then need a referendum in the lifetime of the new government (if one committed to repealing the amendment were returned). I know this is an important issue but you can just imagine the country tearing itself apart over this. I don't for one second believe that the SSM result translates into widespread support for this but we'll see.


  • #239
    Huntergonzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭Huntergonzo


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    Baloney and shameful to boot. Hijacking Savita's deaht to peddle your agenda for abortion.

    So basically you're going with the stick your fingers in your ears and repeat the same old tripe over and over again approach, this is nearly always the last refuge of someone with no leg to stand on.

    I can see clearly you have no intentions of real debate here, you're spoken for, you want to see any number of women die in defence of a crazy amendment to our constitution just because it's conservative, it's frightening to know there's people like that out there.

    I'll give you the last word, people like you get a hard on for the last word.


  • #240
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    keane2097 wrote: »
    Something about saying you wouldn't punish women who had an abortion abroad but you would punish women who had one in Ireland sticks in the craw I see. Fancy that.

    Why add more misery by imprisonment, on a woman already violated by an abortionist? I fail to see how society gains.

    The abortionst however?????


    I'll let that stew with you until this becomes relevant. :P


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  • #241
    keane2097
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,828 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    Why add more misery by imprisonment, on a woman already violated by an abortionist? I fail to see how society gains.

    The abortionst however?????


    I'll let that stew with you until this becomes relevant. :P

    Is that to say that you don't think a woman who procures an abortion in Ireland should be punished?


This discussion has been closed.
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