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Same Sex Marriage Referendum Mega Thread - MOD WARNING IN FIRST POST

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 886 ✭✭✭gk5000


    osarusan wrote: »
    First of all, there is nothing specific here....just 'nobody knows what shall happen.' So that doesn't answer my question.
    Correct. The constitution change only allows subsequent laws to be changed. It in itself does not make the change.

    But the parent/children issue has not been debated properly, so we do not know the consequence. And to me it is irresponsible to make this change without having some idea about what is likely to happen.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    RobertKK wrote: »
    I think Taoisigh have for European referendums, if wrong I apologise.

    Awaiting that apology


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,887 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    gk5000 wrote: »
    Correct. The constitution change only allows subsequent laws to be changed. It in itself does not make the change.

    But the parent/children issue has not been debated properly, so we do not know the consequence. And to me it is irresponsible to make this change without having some idea about what is likely to happen.

    Could you give some specific examples about how my marriage will be affected?

    You said 'all existing marriages' would be affected quite explicitly just a few posts ago - you seemed quite clear that there were consequences.

    I keep asking because this is something that other people have said - we have heard it during the campaign.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 18,046 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    say mostly because I did have a man tell me to "cop myself on" when i offered him a leaflet, then call me a fággot when I said "thanks, have a nice day".
    Another couple told me I had the devil in me and was going to hell for promoting homosexuality. The fella told me God would get me for it while poking me (quite hard) in the shoulder. All I did was ask if they wanted a leaflet.
    These sort of situations need to be more widely publicised. The No side take every opportunity to cry out they're being bullied but we're seeing many examples here of nasty responses from the Yes side. For those undecided it needs highlighting that misbehaviour is very evident on the No side.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,775 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    efb wrote: »
    European you said

    Yes I did, but then I looked it up to see what referendums past Taoisigh did debate.
    John Bruton and Garrett Fitzgerald did debate for referendums that involved marriage/divorce.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,775 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    efb wrote: »
    Awaiting that apology

    Yes I was wrong and I do apologise, sorry.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,887 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    ixoy wrote: »
    These sort of situations need to be more widely publicised. The No side take every opportunity to cry out they're being bullied but we're seeing many examples here of nasty responses from the Yes side. For those undecided it needs highlighting that misbehaviour is very evident on the No side.
    Pinhole camera on some Yes canvassers would be fairly revealing I'd say.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Yes I was wrong and I do apologise, sorry.

    Accepted


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    osarusan wrote: »
    Could you give some specific examples about how my marriage will be affected?

    You said 'all existing marriages' would be affected quite explicitly just a few posts ago.

    I keep asking because this is something that other people have said - we have heard it during the campaign.

    My sister is hoping her husband will do more DIY...


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 886 ✭✭✭gk5000


    osarusan wrote: »
    But this would not have any effect on my marriage. Even if we accept it as a legitimate impact (which I do not), it would only become a factor if we separated, in which there would be no marriage for it to have any effect on. So that doesn't answer my question.
    It's a principle for me. You don't look at things this way maybe.
    As a bad example - maybe if everybody could afford Rolls-Royces, then they would not be that special.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 886 ✭✭✭gk5000


    osarusan wrote: »
    I do not even understand what this means - what is a mam+man mother?
    In a same sex marriage, say two men, then I guess one shall be designated mother.

    The point is you cannot specify a woman mother, because that would be disciminating against a man in a same sex marriage.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,919 ✭✭✭ronivek


    gk5000 wrote: »
    In a same sex marriage, say two men, then I guess one shall be designated mother.

    The point is you cannot specify a woman mother, because that would be disciminating against a man in a same sex marriage.

    Christ on a bike; what about children being raised by a single father? Nobody has to be the "mother". And any children going on a school trip can just as equally be accompanied by a father as a mother; to suggest otherwise is quite frankly asinine.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    gk5000 wrote: »
    In a same sex marriage, say two men, then I guess one shall be designated mother.

    The point is you cannot specify a woman mother, because that would be disciminating against a man in a same sex marriage.

    Designated mother??? Free breastfeeding milk??? What is this???


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    gk5000 wrote: »
    In a same sex marriage, say two men, then I guess one shall be designated mother.

    The point is you cannot specify a woman mother, because that would be disciminating against a man in a same sex marriage.

    That's like asking chopsticks which one is the fork.

    Why does one have to be 'mother' - why can't they both be Father?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,141 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    I read today's Indo reports on the marriage referendum issue (who said what) and found this little doozy at the bottom right of either page 5 or 7. It's by Niall O'Connor and it seem's to be an interview of Des Hanafin (father of Mary Hanafin). Des is a former Sec of the FF Party's fundraising committee and faced down Charlie Haughey over his attempts to get control of FF funds and committee, so he is well used to political party infighting and how dirty it can be. I copied the report below in it's para layout.

    Supporters of same-sex marriage have introduced a "palpable climate of fear" into the referendum campaign, according to former senator Des Hanafin.

    Mr Hanafin said many No voters have been unfairly portrayed as "homophobic bigots" and have been subjected to a level of intimidation that should have no place in a republic.

    The former FF politician, whose daughter is Mary Hanafin, has been involved in a number of referendum campaigns in the past.

    But he said that the marriage equality campaign has seen an unprecedented level of fear and intimidation.

    "I can recall no election or referendum campaign previously in which so many people felt to say what they truly believe. There are reasonable concerns to be raised about the Governments proposals, but they are being treated as if they are not" Mr Hanafin said.

    In Carrick-on-Shannon people erecting No posters were "run out of the town"by those on the Yes side.

    And he said every single No poster was pulled down within a day in his own hometown of Thurles.

    Mr Hanafin also critisised public servants, including Gardai, who have called for a No vote.

    ..................................................................................................................................................

    Is there anyone here who lives/come's from/has connections with Carrick-on-Shannon who can confirm Des's claim about the No's being run out of town? I'd have thought it would have been headline stuff, along with his Thurles poster story.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,831 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    This is shaping up quite a lot like the Senate poll timescale.

    Id be for yes, but there is enough mobility and doubt knocking around that the Yes side should be concerned.

    Even a narrow vote one way or the other with a low turnout is bad news as it will be clear that basically half the Country dont want same sex marriage.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 886 ✭✭✭gk5000


    osarusan wrote: »
    Could you give some specific examples about how my marriage will be affected?

    You said 'all existing marriages' would be affected quite explicitly just a few posts ago - you seemed quite clear that there were consequences.

    I keep asking because this is something that other people have said - we have heard it during the campaign.
    Legally, if ssm is passes, then this affects all marriages.

    There is no N plate. Any new laws for marriages or family law shall affect all mariages, not just same sex marriages.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,935 ✭✭✭Anita Blow


    All I can think of is that cartoon of a knife talking to two chop sticks- "So which one of you is the fork?"


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,831 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Des Hanafin is still alive? Surprising.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,887 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    gk5000 wrote: »
    Legally, if ssm is passes, then this affects all marriages.
    Do you have any specific examples of how they will be affected?

    Also, as another poster mentioned, what is the difference between a single father accompanying his daughter on a school trip and a gay male accompanying his daughter on the same school trip?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 886 ✭✭✭gk5000


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    That's like asking chopsticks which one is the fork.

    Why does one have to be 'mother' - why can't they both be Father?
    I don't know - we would have to figure out how to handle 2 fathers or 2 mothers. It's an unknown and hense a problem.

    We should know the full condequences before voting to change the constitution.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,897 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Des Hannifan who really give a toss what that aul codger thinks? He was virulently anti the divorce referendum. How ridiculous does that stance look now.
    Just another social conservative that wants to impose his dogma in the rest of us. There's a predictable pattern to all these crowd.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 886 ✭✭✭gk5000


    Anita Blow wrote: »
    All I can think of is that cartoon of a knife talking to two chop sticks- "So which one of you is the fork?"
    Again, up to this it was clear. The change would introduce the confusion.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,935 ✭✭✭Anita Blow


    gk5000 wrote: »
    Legally, if ssm is passes, then this affects all marriages.

    There is no N plate. Any new laws for marriages or family law shall affect all mariages, not just same sex marriages.

    But you fail to state how. You marriage is unchanged regardless of a Yes or No come Saturday morning. The benefits, roles and responsibilities are no different.
    Of course all laws shall affect both heterosexual and homosexual marriages, that is the very point of marriage equality.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    Anita Blow wrote: »
    Just read this on FB from an Anglican Priest who received a call from a "parishioner" in his area asking him to advocate a No vote on the pulpit tomorrow in mass. He politely declined, looked up the phone number and it was one of the No campaign groups from an entirely different area.
    Most interesting - Just had a phone call from someone claiming to be a non attending parishioner of mine urging me to tell my parishioners tomorrow to vote no - Had a fulsome and reasonably courteous debate but assured the said person (who only gave me a first name) that I would not be directing the congregation from the pulpit despite my own widely known views. After the phone call ended I did an internet reverse look up on the telephone number and discovered that the number was nowhere near my parish and was infact the number of a prominent solicitor used by a prominent organisation campaigning for a No vote! I decided to phone back and got the person (not incidentally the solicitor in question but they did admit their location) and same individual was a little bit rattled - I don't know if said person is a parishioner and lives in my parish as they claimed but to me it was all a little less than transparent - This sort of behaviour only serves to undermine whatever cause a person is advocating - It certainly did nothing to weaken my resolve to vote YES

    Unbelievable.

    You can be guaranteed that these guys are ringing every parish in the country at the moment. Where the hell are the real journalists in this country. There is a goldmine of a story for a ball buster of a journalist to get if they choose to go after these organisations. Unfortunately we in Ireland have a pathetic limp wristed selection of media organisations.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,935 ✭✭✭Anita Blow


    gk5000 wrote: »
    I don't know - we would have to figure out how to handle 2 fathers or 2 mothers. It's an unknown and hense a problem.

    We should know the full condequences before voting to change the constitution.

    What will have to be handled differently? And how often does new marriage legislation come into force that this is a big issue?
    Realistically, what future legislation do you see being an issue?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    This is shaping up quite a lot like the Senate poll timescale.

    Id be for yes, but there is enough mobility and doubt knocking around that the Yes side should be concerned.

    Even a narrow vote one way or the other with a low turnout is bad news as it will be clear that basically half the Country dont want same sex marriage.

    Like divorce


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 886 ✭✭✭gk5000


    osarusan wrote: »
    Do you have any specific examples of how they will be affected?

    Also, as another poster mentioned, what is the difference between a single father accompanying his daughter on a school trip and a gay male accompanying his daughter on the same school trip?
    I do not know how the laws will change.
    I do not know how someone (in a ssm) will challenge some existing law on the grounds of discrimination, and how the courts will rule.
    I have no problem with gay marriage (if childrens rights were totally unaffected, but that is not the case).

    The point is that currently the school could say mothers only - which in the future could be construed as discrimination against married gay men.

    The point is we don't know the consequences; they have not been teased out or debated properly.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,887 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    gk5000 wrote: »
    The point is that currently the school could say mothers only - which in the future could be construed as discrimination against married gay men.
    As another poster mentioned, is there a difference between how a single father and gay male parent would be treated?


This discussion has been closed.
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