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Same Sex Marriage Referendum Mega Thread - MOD WARNING IN FIRST POST

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Comments

  • #3662
    gk5000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 886 ✭✭✭gk5000


    osarusan wrote: »
    I am a man married to woman. I have two kids.

    Could you be specific about how my marriage and my children will be affected by a Yes vote?
    Any new law shall have to cater for ssm as well as your marriage.
    Nobody knows what shall happen when the lawyers shall get hold of this.
    And all it takes is from some man-man or woman-woman to challenge some existing law regarding families -say sex education.

    From a principle point of view, yes would say that you as a male are replacable by a woman, that your male fatherhood role model is not special and distinct and similar for your wife, that her womanness is not special and can be replaced by a man.

    But one silly example:
    Say girls school, and some mothers accompany girls on school tour.
    You could not discriminate from a mam+man "mother".


  • #3663
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    RobertKK wrote: »
    The don't know will be heavily no, look back on previous polls from previous referendums.
    Also the trend is towards no.

    There could be a big anti-establishment backlash next Friday, a kick to all political parties, the former President, big business, high profile celebs. All that support is not necessarily good.
    Forget the marriage referendum for a second, a no vote is a massive kick to the establishment.
    Enda Kenny again refused to debate, which was cited as a negative for the Yes vote in the Seanad abolition referendum.

    No is far higher than 31%, as the don't know as the Irish Times said today, will go heavily to No going on past experience.

    How many referenda did the then taoiseach take part in a debate?


  • #3664
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,775 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    So you agree the priest Anita mentioned acted inappropriately.

    Care to condemn his actions?

    My granddaughter made her communion today - she is well aware of what the referendum is about - how do you think she would have felt hearing a priest telling people to vote to prevent the only grandmother she knows from getting married? How would my son feel hearing a priest say his parents shouldn't be allowed to marry during what was supposed to be a special day for his daughter?

    Do the priests even consider for a second that there are gay people and their children, parents, brother and sisters in the congregation? Do they care?

    I think it is inappropriate to bring up a referendum as stated in my earlier reply at certain occasions.


  • #3665
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    gk5000 wrote: »
    Any new law shall have to cater for ssm as well as your marriage.
    Nobody knows what shall happen when the lawyers shall get hold of this.
    And all it takes is from some man-man or woman-woman to challenge some existing law regarding families -say sex education.

    From a principle point of view, yes would say that you as a male are replacable by a woman, that your male fatherhood role model is not special and distinct and similar for your wife, that her womanness is not special and can be replaced by a man.

    But one silly example:
    Say girls school, and some mothers accompany girls on school tour.
    You could not discriminate from a mam+man "mother".

    Can males not chaperone young girls now???


  • #3666
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    RobertKK wrote: »
    I think it is inappropriate to bring up a referendum as stated in my earlier reply at certain occasions.

    So the bishops/priests were also in the wrong- glad we agree


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  • #3667
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,775 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    efb wrote: »
    How many referenda did the then taoiseach take part in a debate?

    They lost two already, poll for the children's referendum was massively wrong.
    The Taoiseach if he really believed would take part in a debate. He claimed he had no one to debate.

    Some polls had it 75% yes 25% no at a minimum.
    Poll result that mattered 58% yes, 42% No.


  • #3668
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,775 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    efb wrote: »
    So the bishops/priests were also in the wrong- glad we agree

    Yes, fine at Sunday mass, not at special church events.


  • #3669
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    RobertKK wrote: »
    They lost two already, poll for the children's referendum was massively wrong.
    The Taoiseach if he really believed would take part in a debate. He claimed he had no one to debate.

    Some polls had it 75% yes 25% no at a minimum.
    Poll result that mattered 58% yes, 42% No.

    That's not answering my question, care to answer it????


  • #3670
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Yes, fine at Sunday mass, not at special church events.

    So Yes can campaign outside church on regular Sunday mass?


  • #3671
    dyl10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,355 ✭✭✭dyl10


    For an internet poll, these numbers are closer than one might have expected :|


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  • #3672
    osarusan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,887 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    gk5000 wrote: »
    Any new law shall have to cater for ssm as well as your marriage.
    Nobody knows what shall happen when the lawyers shall get hold of this.
    And all it takes is from some man-man or woman-woman to challenge some existing law regarding families -say sex education.
    First of all, there is nothing specific here....just 'nobody knows what shall happen.' So that doesn't answer my question.

    gk5000 wrote: »
    From a principle point of view, yes would say that you as a male are replacable by a woman, that your male fatherhood role model is not special and distinct and similar for your wife, that her womanness is not special and can be replaced by a man.
    But this would not have any effect on my marriage. Even if we accept it as a legitimate impact (which I do not), it would only become a factor if we separated, in which there would be no marriage for it to have any effect on. So that doesn't answer my question.
    gk5000 wrote: »
    But one silly example:

    Say girls school, and some mothers accompany girls on school tour.
    You could not discriminate from a mam+man "mother".
    I do not even understand what this means - what is a mam+man mother?


  • #3673
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,775 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    efb wrote: »
    So Yes can campaign outside church on regular Sunday mass?

    If they want to annoy people, they can. But it won't do them any good.

    I certainly wouldn't if I was a yes campaigner, they did it on Newstalk, it didn't go down well. Most were polite, but one guy got really angry at being canvassed outside a church.


  • #3674
    gk5000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 886 ✭✭✭gk5000


    CiDeRmAn wrote: »
    Love is the thing that makes a relationship, and that's not conditional on the genitalia you were born with.
    Homosexuality has been around for as long as recorded history, its not a lifestyle choice, its not an alternative lifestyle, you are attracted to someone and you have no control over who that might be.
    When I fell for my first crush it took me completely by surprise, being to young to understand it.
    I assume a gay person is exactly the same, but in their situation societal attitudes means this is accompanied by shame and guilt, feelings of being built wrong, being sinful and being a disappointment to those who love you,.
    Now, imagine you're 8 or 9 and feeling that way, because that's the age I was when I started really noticing girls.
    I would be ashamed if I thought my attitudes would contribute such misery on children.
    1. Love does not require marriage
    2. This is not about making gays guilty or saying there is anything wrong with them
    3. Do we insult the fish or the chips saying we want fish + chips as opposesd to fish + fish or chips + chips. Somethings just make more sense.
    4. Its just saying that marriage is not for them, that is exclusivly for man+women.
    5. You cannot give everybody what the want all of the time. This is tough, but true.


  • #3675
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Complaints from family members today who were at their son's confirmation, outside the church there were people handing out yes leaflets telling people to vote yes.
    The location of the campaign didn't go down well with people, which is a day for the families, not for campaigners of any side.
    RobertKK wrote: »
    I think it is inappropriate to bring up a referendum as stated in my earlier reply at certain occasions.

    Surely since you went to the trouble of writing a post to criticise Yes campaigners for canvassing outside a church you could manage a bit more condemnation for No Campaigners abusing their position and literally preaching from the pulpit to a captive audience on a family occasion?

    I ask again - what about the families of gay people, and gay people themselves, who were forced to listen? Do you think they might have been upset?


  • #3676
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,775 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    efb wrote: »
    That's not answering my question, care to answer it????

    I think Taoisigh have for European referendums, if wrong I apologise.


  • #3677
    P_1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Complaints from family members today who were at their son's confirmation, outside the church there were people handing out yes leaflets telling people to vote yes.
    The location of the campaign didn't go down well with people, which is a day for the families, not for campaigners of any side.

    It's a referendum, it's logical to target the big gatherings, just because it takes place outside a cash cow for 12 year olds makes no odds


  • #3678
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    RobertKK wrote: »
    If they want to annoy people, they can. But it won't do them any good.

    I certainly wouldn't if I was a yes campaigner, they did it on Newstalk, it didn't go down well. Most were polite, but one guy got really angry at being canvassed outside a church.

    One guy- there's always one.


  • #3679
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,336 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    osarusan wrote: »
    First of all, there is nothing specific here....just 'nobody knows what shall happen.' So that doesn't answer my question.



    But this would not have any effect on my marriage. Even if we accept it as a legitimate impact (which I do not), it would only become a factor if we separated, in which there would be no marriage for it to have any effect on. So that doesn't answer my question.

    I do not even understand what this means - what is a mam+man mother?

    I wouldn't even bother trying


  • #3680
    gk5000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 886 ✭✭✭gk5000


    efb wrote: »
    Can males not chaperone young girls now???

    Only when they are related !


  • #3681
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    RobertKK wrote: »
    I think Taoisigh have for European referendums, if wrong I apologise.

    So you don't know.


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  • #3682
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    gk5000 wrote: »
    Only when they are related !

    Male teachers? Teaching Assistants???


  • #3683
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,775 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Surely since you went to the trouble of writing a post to criticise Yes campaigners for canvassing outside a church you could manage a bit more condemnation for No Campaigners abusing their position and literally preaching from the pulpit to a captive audience on a family occasion?

    I ask again - what about the families of gay people, and gay people themselves, who were forced to listen? Do you think they might have been upset?

    Do you think they are shocked. They know where the church stands on marriage.
    I think it is inappropriate though at a special church occasion.


  • #3684
    Not a NSA agent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 781 ✭✭✭Not a NSA agent


    gk5000 wrote: »
    1. Love does not require marriage
    2. This is not about making gays guilty or saying there is anything wrong with them
    3. Do we insult the fish or the chips saying we want fish + chips as opposesd to fish + fish or chips + chips. Somethings just make more sense.
    4. Its just saying that marriage is not for them, that is exclusivly for man+women.
    5. You cannot give everybody what the want all of the time. This is tough, but true.

    Do you actively prevent people buying 2 portions of chips telling them they have to get fish with it? Or do you let people make their own grown up decisions?


  • #3685
    sunshine and showers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,027 ✭✭✭sunshine and showers


    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    Canvassing today went well. I feel very encouraged at the amount of people I encountered who were definate yes voters. No one was particularly rude either thankfully. I was standing on the street handing out yes badges and pamphlets that show people how to get voting reminders text to them, and the amount of people who wanted to wear a yes badge made me feel very hopeful. And I was in the heart of small town rural Ireland. There were a few filthy looks and sour faces but not many.

    I had a mostly positive experience today canvassing in a town centre.

    I say mostly because I did have a man tell me to "cop myself on" when i offered him a leaflet, then call me a fággot when I said "thanks, have a nice day".
    Another couple told me I had the devil in me and was going to hell for promoting homosexuality. The fella told me God would get me for it while poking me (quite hard) in the shoulder. All I did was ask if they wanted a leaflet.


  • #3686
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    RobertKK wrote: »
    I think Taoisigh have for European referendums, if wrong I apologise.

    EU fiscal Referendum - Enda Kenny did not debate
    Nice 2 Brian Cowen's didn't debate -


    They were the last 2 European referenda


  • #3687
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,775 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    efb wrote: »
    So you don't know.

    John Bruton did for divorce.


  • #3688
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    sunshine and showers wrote: »
    I had a mostly positive experience today canvassing in a town centre.

    I say mostly because I did have a man tell me to "cop myself on" when i offered him a leaflet, then call me a fággot when I said "thanks, have a nice day".
    Another couple told me I had the devil in me and was going to hell for promoting homosexuality. The fella told me God would get me for it while poking me (quite hard) in the shoulder. All I did was ask if they wanted a leaflet.

    One of the guys had a guy finger N O on my friends chest - disconcerting


  • #3689
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    RobertKK wrote: »
    John Bruton did for divorce.

    European you said


  • #3690
    DarkyHughes
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭DarkyHughes


    sunshine and showers wrote: »
    Think of all the fabulous gay weddings... :D

    Another thing with the NO camp is that is that they'll be forced at gun point to attend every gay wedding.

    Nothing will change for straight people if the vote goes YES, except they'll live in a more open minded country.


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  • #3691
    ixoy
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 18,046 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    Tactically, I think canvassing for a Yes vote too close to a church isn't necessarily the best approach. I don't give a flying spaghetti monster for the Church's opinion but it's probably not the best way to win people over.
    I just hope a priest lecturing from the pulpit pushes others towards the Yes given it's the bullying tactic the Yes side are accused of with the added advantage that your audience can't speak back.


This discussion has been closed.
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