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White Male Privilege

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Comments

  • #422
    gravehold
    Closed Accounts Posts: 912 ✭✭✭gravehold


    Duggy747 wrote: »
    What are you basing that on?

    The higher instances of male suicide of course :rolleyes:

    The world is all roses and lolipops for men according to some people.


  • #423
    NI24
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 641 ✭✭✭NI24


    The Corinthian wrote: »
    Was there a point to that last post of yours?
    Yeah, it's called clarifying my position so people stop asking stupid questions like, 'how is biology men's fault?' and other such nonsense, clearly indicating that they didn't take the time to read my posts from the beginning. I had about 10 posters coming at me at the same time, barely giving me time to respond to each one sufficiently before they responded to each other's posts, trying to put words in my mouth, which of course is the perfect way to debate--reply to my post, don't give me a chance to respond, and then get into a conversation with someone else about imaginary points I wasn't trying to make. I had to get off because I literally hadn't moved from my computer for four hours.
    The Corinthian wrote: »
    LOL. I must have missed this one. I think you're going to need an awful lot of anecdotal evidence for this claim.
    I can only assume your projecting your own feelings on to other men. However, depression still affects only a minority of the population, and the majority of depressed people are women--it occurs either more frequently in women or affects more women overall, or more women attempt suicide than men, I can't remember. Must be all that privilege.


  • #424
    NI24
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 641 ✭✭✭NI24


    gravehold wrote: »
    As a trans woman, I have being on both sides, white male privilege doesn't exist. I had all the same benefits after transition then before, actually I might of go the graduate job in it easier cause my passport said female.

    This male privilege thing is the bogeyman for certain people cause they cannot handle they might have gone wrong in life.

    Ah yes, another anecdotal example given as evidence, not at all unlike the anecdotal evidence given by hatrick or me. So, who's anecdotal evidence do you think most people in this thread are going to agree with? Any guesses???


  • #425
    gravehold
    Closed Accounts Posts: 912 ✭✭✭gravehold


    NI24 wrote: »

    I can only assume your projecting your own feelings on to other men. However, depression still affects only a minority of the population, and the majority of depressed people are women--it occurs either more frequently in women or affects more women overall, or more women attempt suicide than men, I can't remember. Must be all that privilege.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide#Rates

    Why is the rate of completed suicide so high in men, do women get more help taken seriously then men for depression?

    http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-08-20/why-do-more-men-commit-suicide


    Suicidal intention is pretty similar in men and women, men just complete more so it skew the female incomplete higher.


  • #426
    NI24
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 641 ✭✭✭NI24


    gravehold wrote: »
    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide#Rates

    Why is the rate of completed suicide so high in men, do women get more help taken seriously then men for depression?

    Because men use more violent means.

    gravehold wrote: »
    Suicidal intention is pretty similar then men and women, men just complete more so it skew the female incomplete higher.

    English please.


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  • #427
    gravehold
    Closed Accounts Posts: 912 ✭✭✭gravehold


    NI24 wrote: »
    Ah yes, another anecdotal example given as evidence, not at all unlike the anecdotal evidence given by hatrick or me. So, who's anecdotal evidence do you think most people in this thread are going to agree with? Any guesses???

    I can only say that I have not seen it from both side of the spectrum. If you say there is a white male patriarchy keeping you down tells us what they have done directly to you that makes you think that.


  • #428
    NI24
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 641 ✭✭✭NI24


    Tabbami wrote: »
    Does it get under your skin that a 18 year old woman can be more attractive than a successful business woman who has made her riches through hard work and determination?

    Does it get under your skin that you've been banned multiple times?


  • #429
    NI24
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 641 ✭✭✭NI24


    gravehold wrote: »
    I can only say that I have not seen it from both side of the spectrum. If you say there is a white male patriarchy keeping you down tells us what they have done directly to you that makes you think that.

    You have or have not? Look, I'm not trying to be mean to you, but read the friggin' thread.


  • #430
    gravehold
    Closed Accounts Posts: 912 ✭✭✭gravehold


    NI24 wrote: »
    Because men use more violent means.




    English please.

    If men complete suicide more, then the female attempted suicide rate increases cause the men didn't attempt it they did it.

    The figures show overall suicidal intention of both genders which show completed and attempted is pretty equal

    Your are only focusing on the attempted suicide cause it helps your agenda rather then the overall picture


  • #431
    NI24
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 641 ✭✭✭NI24


    Tabbami wrote: »
    Judging by your evasive answer I'd say it does as I suspected. If I were to make an educated guess I would say you like to view yourself as superior to younger women so when you see them get more attention from men it angers you and results in the attitude we are witnessing now. The solution is to realise you are neither superior nor inferior to anyone else, at least stop viewing people like that and realise there is more to life than being attractive.

    And I could judge by your evasive answer that I hit the target bulls eye. Oh, and the idea that people are neither superior or inferior to anyone else is ludicrous. And that's going from the majority of posts in this thread.


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  • #432
    NI24
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 641 ✭✭✭NI24


    gravehold wrote: »
    If men complete suicide more, then the female attempted suicide rate increases cause the men didn't attempt it they did it.

    The figures show overall suicidal intention of both genders which show completed and attempted is pretty equal

    Your are only focusing on the attempted suicide cause it helps your agenda rather then the overall picture

    Actually the point I was trying to make was that men and women, are on the whole, happy and that this thread does not represent the majority of men. Your sources only confirm my point, dear sir/madam. And actually, the only reason I mentioned that point again was because it was attached to another point that another poster had a problem with. I'm not really here to get into a debate about the happiness of men vs women because I don't care.


  • #433
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    NI24 wrote: »
    I can only assume your projecting your own feelings on to other men.
    TBH, if anyone has been attempting to project their feelings and beliefs here it's been you.

    If you meant depression, then I'd probably agree with you or at least not disagree - I can't say that a majority of men suffer from depression - but in fairness that wasn't very clear in your post; other than being rather dismissive what exactly is "men are largely happy with their lives" supposed to mean, after all?
    However, depression still affects only a minority of the population, and the majority of depressed people are women--it occurs either more frequently in women or affects more women overall, or more women attempt suicide than men, I can't remember. Must be all that privilege.
    It does defy understanding that having been presented with the figures you still seem to want to suggest that the consequences of depression are a greater problem for women than men. Hardly a picture of male privilege.

    So you appear to be projecting quite a bit there.


  • #434
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    NI24 wrote: »
    Actually the point I was trying to make was that men and women, are on the whole, happy and that this thread does not represent the majority of men.
    But you represent the majority of women? Men? The voice of reason?


  • #435
    gravehold
    Closed Accounts Posts: 912 ✭✭✭gravehold


    NI24 wrote: »
    Actually the point I was trying to make was that men and women, are on the whole, happy and that this thread does not represent the majority of men. Your sources only confirm my point, dear sir/madam. And actually, the only reason I mentioned that point again was because it was attached to another point that another poster had a problem with. I'm not really here to get into a debate about the happiness of men vs women because I don't care.

    You said men where happier then women, which isn't the case.

    Ps it's your right to gender me how you wish but pick one, if you dislike trans women you are ok to use he/sir, no need for the passive aggressive use of both.


  • #436
    NI24
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 641 ✭✭✭NI24


    The Corinthian wrote: »
    TBH, if anyone has been attempting to project their feelings and beliefs here it's been you.

    In what way? Because I'm the minority voice and I won't back down?
    The Corinthian wrote: »
    If you meant depression, then I'd probably agree with you or at least not disagree - I can't say that a majority of men suffer from depression - but in fairness that wasn't very clear in your post; other than being rather dismissive what exactly is "men are largely happy with their lives" supposed to mean, after all?

    Yes it was, because I mentioned it in a previous post, and also, because, as I mentioned in a previous post, from what I have observed offline, most men do not quibble over these things.
    The Corinthian wrote: »
    It does defy understanding that having been presented with the figures you still seem to want to suggest that the consequences of depression are a greater problem for women than men. Hardly a picture of male privilege.

    So you appear to be projecting quite a bit there.

    See post above.


  • #437
    NI24
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 641 ✭✭✭NI24


    The Corinthian wrote: »
    But you represent the majority of women? Men? The voice of reason?

    I represent a poster online. What is your point?


  • #438
    gravehold
    Closed Accounts Posts: 912 ✭✭✭gravehold


    NI24 wrote: »
    In what way? Because I'm the minority voice and I won't back down?


    Are we going to play progressive stack cause I have got you beat if you are trying to go down that stupid road.


  • #439
    NI24
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 641 ✭✭✭NI24


    gravehold wrote: »
    You said men where happier then women, which isn't the case.

    Ps it's your right to gender me how you wish but pick one, if you dislike trans women you are ok to use he/sir, no need for the passive aggressive use of both.

    And if you had taken the time to read this thread you would realize that I was paraphrasing from an earlier post. And you can stop with the social justice warrior victimization. I had no idea if transgendered woman meant you were woman, or formerly a woman. So now I know, ma'am.


  • #440
    strobe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,872 ✭✭✭strobe


    NI24 wrote: »
    By and large, if women want to make themselves more attractive to men, it largely comes down to improving youthful good looks--not the case for men. And quite honestly, if people don't understand the difference between being judged mainly on looks/age versus being judged mainly on personality/wealth/social standing, then I have nothing further to say on the subject, because I can't teach the concept of shallowness to people, I really can't.

    You're massively undervaluing the importance of looks for men in relation to attracting women, an ugly middle aged man with money will 'attract' a certain kind of woman willing to overlook the fact that she does not find him attractive because she has sat down and done the math that if she lets him put his penis in her she will then be able to benefit from his money. But a guy that looks like Henry Cavill (? I googled 'hottest man in the world') and works away as a milk man will always attract far more women.

    Men face the exact same dilemma as women in terms of how their looks effect their ability to attract women. The best looking men always attract the most women, all else being equal. The same as with women. Men's looks deteriorate with age beyond a certain point, the same as with women. Men can improve their 'social standing' and appear more attractive to certain women. Women can improve their personalities and appear more attractive to certain men. Men perhaps reach the age at which they appear more attractive to the most women later than women, but if that's true that means women reach that peak earlier, and both are peaks, they do not exist for a time, and then they do, and then they do not again.

    Both men and women can improve their looks, social status, personalities and all these things will effect how attractive they appear to certain people. Looks are by far the most important factor for both in terms of how many people they will be genuinely attractive to. There are no Henry Cavills on the dole that struggle to attract women. There are no middle aged overweight female millionaires that struggle to attract men either if they are prepared to make the same allowances similar male millionaires do in relation to who they 'attract'.


  • #441
    NI24
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 641 ✭✭✭NI24


    gravehold wrote: »
    Are we going to play progressive stack cause I have got you beat if you are trying to go down that stupid road.

    I am one of the few in here challenging the op, or the very least, HatrickPatrick. That's what I mean by minority.


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  • #442
    NI24
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 641 ✭✭✭NI24


    strobe wrote: »
    You're massively undervaluing the importance of looks for men in relation to attracting women, an ugly middle aged man with money will 'attract' a certain kind of woman willing to overlook the fact that she does not find him attractive because she has sat down and done the math that if she lets him put his penis in her she will then be able to benefit from his money. But a guy that looks like Henry Cavill (? I googled 'hottest man in the world') and works away as a milk man will always attract far more women.

    Men face the exact same dilemma as women in terms of how their looks effect their ability to attract women. The best looking men always attract the most women, all else being equal. The same as with women. Men's looks deteriorate with age beyond a certain point, the same as with women. Men can improve their 'social standing' and appear more attractive to certain women. Women can improve their personalities and appear more attractive to certain men. Men perhaps reach the age at which they appear more attractive to the most women later than women, but if that's true that means women reach that peak earlier, and both are peaks, they do not exist for a time, and then they do, and then they do not again.

    Both men and women can improve their looks, social status, personalities and all these things will effect how attractive they appear to certain people. Looks are by far the most important factor for both in terms of how many people they will be genuinely attractive to. There are no Henry Cavills on the dole that struggle to attract women. There are no middle aged overweight female millionaires that struggle to attract men either if they are prepared to make the same allowances similar male millionaires do in relation to who they 'attract'.

    Look, I appreciate the fact that you took the time to read at least some of what I wrote, and responded with a coherent reply, but I disagree with you and studies have been conducted that disagree with you and society disagrees with you and I can give literally hundreds of examples to illustrate how society disagrees with you. Men are faaaar more into looks and youth than women, and no legislation in the world is going to change that, nor should it. I only give hypothetical examples of ways to equalize men and women's biologies to counter against the idiotic idea that men's biology doesn't trump women's.


  • #443
    strobe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,872 ✭✭✭strobe


    NI24 wrote: »
    Look, I appreciate the fact that you took the time to read at least some of what I wrote, and responded with a coherent reply, but I disagree with you and studies have been conducted that disagree with you and society disagrees with you and I can give literally hundreds of examples to illustrate how society disagrees with you. Men are faaaar more into looks and youth than women, and no legislation in the world is going to change that, nor should it. I only give hypothetical examples of ways to equalize men and women's biologies to counter against the idiotic idea that men's biology doesn't trump women's.

    Sure go on so, give me the studies and hundreds of examples that illustrate how society disagrees with anything I have said.


  • #444
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,180 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    NI24 wrote: »
    I only give hypothetical examples of ways to equalize men and women's biologies to counter against the idiotic idea that men's biology doesn't trump women's.


    What you actually gave though, was an idiotic idea that men should be mandatorily sterilised.

    In what world do you think that idea is ever going to fly?

    You're using a very reductive argument to make your point and ignoring all sorts of context, and that's why in just the same way as you don't care about other people's perspective, well, that's hardly likely to endear them to your perspective either.


  • #445
    NI24
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 641 ✭✭✭NI24


    strobe wrote: »
    Sure go on so, give me the studies and hundreds of examples that illustrate how society disagrees with anything I have said.
    Now you are starting to irritate me, because I have given sources to those studies and I have given examples and if you had read everything I wrote, you would know that. And now I bid you farewell.


  • #446
    strobe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,872 ✭✭✭strobe


    NI24 wrote: »
    Now you are starting to irritate me, because I have given sources to those studies and I have given examples and if you had read everything I wrote, you would know that. And now I bid you farewell.

    No no, the ones that disagree with anything I have said. Quickly now, I'm a very busy man.


  • #447
    NI24
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 641 ✭✭✭NI24


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    What you actually gave though, was an idiotic idea that men should be mandatorily sterilised.

    I know it was an idiotic idea, that was my friggin' point.


  • #448
    NI24
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 641 ✭✭✭NI24


    strobe wrote: »
    No no, the ones that disagree with anything I have said. Quickly now, I'm a very busy man.

    What's the name of the bridge you call home?


  • #449
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    NI24 wrote: »
    In what way? Because I'm the minority voice and I won't back down?
    Actually because you've been persisting in some of your claims despite pretty concrete evidence rebutting it being presented to you. Trying to turn this into some sort of oppression of your views by the majority is a bit silly, TBH.
    Yes it was, because I mentioned it in a previous post, and also, because, as I mentioned in a previous post, from what I have observed offline, most men do not quibble over these things.
    That does not imply that they're happy though.

    Unless you hadn't noticed, men are traditionally more likely to keep these things in. We're taught from an early age to suppress our feelings, keep a stiff upper lip and not show weakness. Boys don't cry, remember?

    So your anecdotal evidence only demonstrates that you have not observed 'unhappiness' - not that it is not there. Meanwhile, you've been presented with pretty conclusive suicide rates that would indicate a pretty large 'happiness gap' between what you've perceived and the numbers of men who turned out not to be happy at all, to the point of ending their lives.

    In short, you've presented a logical fallacy, presumed that your observations, your anecdotal evidence, is much stronger than it actually is, failed to consider that there are other factors that may mean it is flawed and then drawn conclusions ignoring any evidence that may contradict your hypothesis.

    So, no, I don't think it's because you're a minority, although it may explain why you are a minority. Were your arguments able to stand to scrutiny then you might have a point, but they don't.
    NI24 wrote: »
    I know it was an idiotic idea, that was my friggin' point.
    In fairness, I did get your point there.


  • #450
    gravehold
    Closed Accounts Posts: 912 ✭✭✭gravehold


    NI24 wrote: »
    I know it was an idiotic idea, that was my friggin' point.

    So what is your point, do you think the patriarchy is a real thing?


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  • #451
    strobe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,872 ✭✭✭strobe


    NI24 wrote: »
    What's the name of the bridge you call home?

    Ah, I believe that's what's known as 'tapping out'. Fair enough. If you reconsider and would like to put forward a coherent argument against anything I've said, I'll pop back later to have a read.


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