3 British ISIS brides that flew into Syria reportedly on the run from their husbands

darkpagandeath · 14-05-2015 09:10PM

who the fug wrote: »

So the law is the law and people with mental problems or are slow should be treated the same as you and me

Goalposts

> They are not suffering mental health issues or it would have been reported. And where they not in a good school excellent students ?

RDM_83 again · 14-05-2015 09:11PM

Eugene Norman wrote: »

The "turning away from them" probably happened not because of any disgust at the treatment of minorities, which they were aware of before they went (they hardly thought it was all cgi) but disgust at their own treatment by their husbands. There's little morality there.

We both agre to not overly care what happens to them, then. I don't wish them harm, but I don't wish them safe home either.

Yeah to me this is the important point, they knew what Daish are and what their aims are, they know the methods used, its a sign they have a really fcuked up sense of morality that they thought this was good thing to join when living in UK (if you were shelled in Fallujah joining IS is a lot more understandable )in the first place (and yes travelling to specifically marry a fighter rather than an individual that happens to be a fighter definitely counts as providing support)

darkpagandeath · 14-05-2015 09:11PM

end of the road wrote: »

and hopefully the EU will deem it illegal and force her to undo her plans or else. but then again, it wouldn't be britain if they didn't outsource everything and expect everyone else to clear up their mess. we need the EU now more then ever to stop the tories from implementing their final aim of implementing fear and the eventual removing of the peoples rights freedoms and civil liberties. the plans for extremists are just to whip up public support for this final aim. by using fear, and getting the support of the gullible, its hoped eventually the right thinking people will feel afraid to question anything, and then the tory government can begin with their aim.

The UK government made people go off to Syria now ?

LDN_Irish · 14-05-2015 09:14PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

That was in relation to crimes they may have or may not committed while there. Not in relation to joining or facilitating a terrorist organisation. I would have though most people would expect that to be a minimum charge. Guess I was wrong and had to write it down.

All we know is that they left to attempt to marry a jihadist.

I doubt that passes the threshold for facilitation. At absolutely max, we know they said they want to behead a kafir, so maybe at a push inciting violence. For an under 18 year old in Britain they're looking at probably a suspended sentence for that tweet.

Although I see you seem fond of the US system of pretending children are adults when you don't like what they've done, which to me is just massively illogical.

end of the road · 14-05-2015 09:14PM

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Jesus wept. Not wishing the best on people who were so turned on by child rape and beheadings they decided to join in is hardly "as bad" as the crowd they are running away from, is it?

This isn't some student prank gone wrong. It's can't be just blown off as childish rebellion. They went to participate in mass slaughter.

it can, and it will, by those of us who have common sense and don't buy into the hysterical nonsense peddled on here and the daily mail. some people in this thread are like the daily fail on steroids

LDN_Irish · 14-05-2015 09:17PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

The UK government made people go off to Syria now ?

Not made, but you must remember the encouragement at the start of the civil war.

It was very like 1984 the way the encouragement got memory holed and a new enemy was declared with few people noticing.

darkpagandeath · 14-05-2015 09:17PM

LDN_Irish wrote: »

All we [b/]know[/b] is that they left to attempt to marry a jihadist.

I doubt that passes the threshold for facilitation. At absolutely max, we know they said they want to behead a kafir, so maybe at a push inciting violence. For an under 18 year old in Britain they're looking at probably a suspended sentence for that tweet.

Although I see you seem fond of the US system of pretending children are adults when you don't like what they've done, which to me is just massively illogical.

Yeah I Frown on children murdering people for example, I'm petty like that. I remember a case in the UK where 2 kids killed another. The logic here would have them slapped on the wrist or they did not know what they were doing defence.

end of the road · 14-05-2015 09:18PM

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Strange morality here.

I take it we all agree that ISIS are fascists. That they kill and ethnically cleanse. Would we have much sympathy for 16 year old British subjects who joined the Nazis in 1942 ( to make this analogy better the holocaust woukd have to have been better publicised during the war) and who got killed by the Nazis? Or would we say they got their deserts?

i would have had sympathy. clearly they were gullible, deluded, brainwashed, and impressionable.

darkpagandeath · 14-05-2015 09:19PM

end of the road wrote: »

it can, and it will, by those of us who have common sense and don't buy into the hysterical nonsense peddled on here and the daily mail. some people in this thread are like the daily fail on steroids

Care to discount ISIS aims and their reach ? They have proven they can attack.

darkpagandeath · 14-05-2015 09:20PM

end of the road wrote: »

i would have had sympathy. clearly they were gullible, deluded, brainwashed, and impressionable.

Again, When is one responsible for ones actions. Going by social media these days no one is responsible for anything they do.

Hans Bricks · 14-05-2015 09:21PM

end of the road wrote: »

it doesn't of course. but like terms such as "ja PC brigade rabel rabel" and "ja liberals rabel rabel" "SJW rabel rabel" is another term the usual suspects here use for their little rants

Usual suspects = people I don't agree with and/or like.

And what are 99% of your inarticulate rants made up of ? Let's have a quick overview :

"Ja rabble rabble, ja vermin, ja holicost, ja parissitic, ja end of, ja military junta, ja gullible, ja can't be done, ja no it isn't "

What's "ja" supposed to mean anyway ? I'd make sure I was capable of writing basic English first before attempting to throw nonsensical French in with it too.

end of the road wrote: »

and hopefully the EU will deem it illegal and force her to undo her plans or else. but then again, it wouldn't be britain if they didn't outsource everything and expect everyone else to clear up their mess. we need the EU now more then ever to stop the tories from implementing their final aim of implementing fear and the eventual removing of the peoples rights freedoms and civil liberties. the plans for extremists are just to whip up public support for this final aim. by using fear, and getting the support of the gullible, its hoped eventually the right thinking people will feel afraid to question anything, and then the tory government can begin with their aim.

Classic example. You don't like what you hear so you write up this incomprehensible garbage of a rant for a rebuttal.

The wheels spinning but the hamster is dead.

end of the road · 14-05-2015 09:22PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Yeah I Frown on children murdering people for example, I'm petty like that. I remember a case in the UK where 2 kids killed another. The logic here would have them slapped on the wrist or they did not know what they were doing defence.

charging children as adults invalidates the laws that seperate children from adults. your either an adult or your not. charging a child is an adult is illegitimate and any country which does it does not recognize the difference between children and adults

darkpagandeath · 14-05-2015 09:23PM

end of the road wrote: »

charging children as adults invalidates the laws that seperate children from adults. your either an adult or your not. charging a child is an adult is illegitimate and any country which does it does not recognize the difference between children and adults

Is the murder different when commited by a person below 18 ?

LDN_Irish · 14-05-2015 09:23PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Yeah I Frown on children murdering people for example, I'm petty like that. I remember a case in the UK where 2 kids killed another. The logic here would have them slapped on the wrist or they did not know what they were doing defence.

Yeah, I remember that too. I know the thought of 11 year olds serving the rest of their lives* makes some people warm and fuzzy, but what if you were to cast a glance at countries that do things differently. You're fond of the US way, and look where it gets them. Highest murder rates in the western world, highest recidivism rates in the western world, worst prisons that him and have to work in. I know you're so ideologically committed to your corner that you won't listen to reason, but read this anyway because it's interesting:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8577458.stm

Read that, then compare Norway's recidivism rates with the UK's. Sometimes, punishment for the sake of it (or to make society feel better about the situation) isn't what's actually best for society.

*You might not have caught the updates here but they were both released with new identities and one went on to get locked up again for child porn. A few people have been wrongfully accused of being one of them and subjected to a bit of mob justice. A ****show all round really.

Cold War Kid · 14-05-2015 09:24PM

LDN_Irish wrote: »

I'm guessing you meant to quote my other post so I'll carry on as if you did:

You're misunderstanding me, you're basically strawmanning.

Nobody is suggesting you be "overly concerned." Even I'm not "overly concerned", sh1t to be honest, I'm barely concerned. They're only going to be 2 more bodies on the pile.

"I fail to see how these 3 deserve more sympathy..."

I have not seen one post on here calling for more sympathy than IS victims.

What I'm arguing is that you can't bleat on here about victims of terrorists and how awful these girls are for joining a group who do awful things and then get gleeful about the prospect of them suffering the same fate at the hands of the very same people you're supposed to be rallying against.

And all this after the girls have turned away from them! Hoping they get caught by IS is actually hoping IS triumph over people who've turned away from their organisation. That's not logical for people who are supposed to be anti-IS.

Perfectly put. Some rather unhinged interpretations of people saying they wouldn't like them to get caught by ISIS, and that's... pretty much it.
As if those saying "Enjoy the fruits of Allah and your goat-****ing husbands, girls" are so much more reasonable...

darkpagandeath · 14-05-2015 09:25PM

LDN_Irish wrote: »

Yeah, I remember that too. I know the thought of 11 year olds serving the rest of their lives makes some people warm and fuzzy, but what if you were to cast a glance at countries that do things differently. You're fond of the US way, and look where it gets them. Highest murder rates in the western world, highest recidivism rates in the western world, worst prisons that him and have to work in. I know you're so ideologically committed to your corner that you won't listen to reason, but read this anyway because it's interesting:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8577458.stm

Read that, then compare Norway's recidivism rates with the UK's. Sometimes, punishment for the sake of it (or to make society feel better about the situation) isn't what's actually best for society.

When did I say I like the USA ? I said basically if you don't want to be charged like an adult for some crimes don't go to the USA.

end of the road · 14-05-2015 09:25PM

Hans Bricks wrote: »

Usual suspects = people I don't agree with and/or like.

And what are 99% of your inarticulate rants made up of ? Let's have a quick overview :

"Ja rabble rabble, ja vermin, ja holicost, ja parissitic, ja end of, ja military junta, ja gullible, ja can't be done, ja no it isn't "

What's "ja" supposed to mean anyway ? I'd make sure I was capable of writing basic English first before attempting to throw nonsensical French in with it too.

Classic example. You don't like what you hear so you write up this incomprehensible garbage of a rant for a rebuttal.

The wheels spinning but the hamster is dead.

not at all. it is well known the tory government want to remove the peoples civil liberties freedoms and rights

Lemming · 14-05-2015 09:25PM

TBH, my thoughts on this are a bit like Scroedhinger's cat; I have sympathy, but I have absolutely none at the same time.

Whilst I can empathise a bit in so much as recalling worked with a muslim girl in Leeds who came out with some very dubious statements when the Arab spring first kicked off and the general jist was she was surrounded by family & relatives making all manner of sweeping and racist remarks about Britain and "The West" despite living in it & enjoying freedom & a standard of living they wouldn't have elsewhere. So there's an element of peer pressure & just plain old indoctrination going on from "pillars of the community" and elders that puts false ideas in young people's heads. It's no different to the sh*te I can recall being parroted by other kids when I was growing up about the IRA and "de Brits", etc.

BUT ...

... by age 14/15 I full well knew what joining an organisation like the IRA would most likely involve, and the ugliness of the whole sad sorry tale of Northern Ireland. And that was in an age before the internet, before social media. Those three girls would have to have been hiding under a rock to not have known about the mass killings & sheer brutality carried out by ISIS. In short, they knew full well what they were walking into but ignored their own gut warnings because "someone said it was all good".

TBH, I'm torn on letting them back into the UK. On the one hand they'd probably be the most effective weapon in the counter-extremism war and yet at the same time they've shown themselves to not be above turning their backs on the country that raised, educated, and kept them safe, its people, their people, etc. ISIS are the dark, dark heart of religion gone wrong in every possible way so how on earth could you think joining them would be anything other than a journey into the dark ages. Anyone who can reconcile that is quite simply dangerous or deluded.

By the way, the cat is alive. But also dead.

Hans Bricks · 14-05-2015 09:28PM

end of the road wrote: »

not at all. it is well known the tory government want to remove the peoples civil liberties freedoms and rights

So you'll be able to give us all evidence of this grand Tory conspiracy I assume ?

Otherwise you're just talking ****e. Again.

LDN_Irish · 14-05-2015 09:30PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

When did I say I like the USA ? I said basically if you don't want to be charged like an adult for some crimes don't go to the USA.

You seemed to be implying that you approved of their "try them as adults" method and then confirmed that with the post about James Bulger, so I don't know why you're wasting time muddying the waters with this post now?

Did you read the link? It's not long.

darkpagandeath · 14-05-2015 09:31PM

LDN_Irish wrote: »

You seemed to be implying that you approved of their "try them as adults" method and then confirmed that with the post about James Bulger, so I don't know why you're wasting time muddying the waters with this post now?

Did you read the link? It's not long.

There is no silver bullet to the issue of Crime and punishment.

Cold War Kid · 14-05-2015 09:32PM

Lemming wrote: »

TBH, my thoughts on this are a bit like Scroedhinger's cat; I have sympathy, but I have absolutely none at the same time.

Whilst I can empathise a bit in so much as recalling worked with a muslim girl in Leeds who came out with some very dubious statements when the Arab spring first kicked off and the general jist was she was surrounded by family & relatives making all manner of sweeping and racist remarks about Britain and "The West" despite living in it & enjoying freedom & a standard of living they wouldn't have elsewhere. So there's an element of peer pressure & just plain old indoctrination going on from "pillars of the community" and elders that puts false ideas in young people's heads. It's no different to the sh*te I can recall being parroted by other kids when I was growing up about the IRA and "de Brits", etc.

BUT ...

... by age 14/15 I full well knew what joining an organisation like the IRA would most likely involve, and the ugliness of the whole sad sorry tale of Northern Ireland. And that was in an age before the internet, before social media. Those three girls would have to have been hiding under a rock to not have known about the mass killings & sheer brutality carried out by ISIS. In short, they knew full well what they were walking into but ignored their own gut warnings because "someone said it was all good".

TBH, I'm torn on letting them back into the UK. On the one hand they'd probably be the most effective weapon in the counter-extremism war and yet at the same time they've shown themselves to not be above turning their backs on the country that raised, educated, and kept them safe, its people, their people, etc. ISIS are the dark, dark heart of religion gone wrong in every possible way so how on earth could you think joining them would be anything other than a journey into the dark ages. Anyone who can reconcile that is quite simply dangerous or deluded.

By the way, the cat is alive. But also dead.

I don't know but my feeling is that they're gonna be bloody remorseful and bloody grateful for how good they had it in Britain, and realise the extreme error of their ways. I have no qualms in saying I thought they were horrible little bitches for what they did, and all that anti west crap from people enjoying living in the west, as you say. I find that stuff appallingly ungrateful.

However, I think they've now learned their lesson (deservedly so) as well as the fact that they are still only 15 or 16 so where else could they go? What about their families too? They are being forgotten a lot of the time in this. I think their families should have them back - they probably want to floor them from a height (understandably) but no doubt want them back too.

LDN_Irish · 14-05-2015 09:33PM

Hans Bricks wrote: »

So you'll be able to give us all evidence of this grand Tory conspiracy I assume ?

Otherwise you're just talking ****e. Again.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/britain-is-too-tolerant-and-should-interfere-more-in-peoples-lives-says-david-cameron-10246517.html

http://www.techweekeurope.co.uk/e-regulation/snoopers-charter-general-election-surveillance-167888

And then just for the craic (and to show that they do things purely for ideology and not for societal benefit), here's May hiring advisers to see whether a mild stimulant should be banned, them saying no, and her banning it anyway.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10157616/Theresa-May-bans-herbal-drug-khat-against-official-advice.html

Hardly tin foil hate stuff Hans, and I deliberately avoided Guardian articles because I suspect they annoy you even more than they annoy me.

LDN_Irish · 14-05-2015 09:35PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

There is no silver bullet to the issue of Crime and punishment.

There are methods that are demonstrated to work and there are methods that are shown not to. Unfortunately, the ones that work don't satisfy the need some have to see others punished. Cest la vie.

Did you read the link?

osarusan · 14-05-2015 09:36PM

Don't know if it has been posted already, but some footage has emerged of the girls before they left the UK. Worrying stuff.

LDN_Irish · 14-05-2015 09:38PM

LDN_Irish wrote: »

There are methods that are demonstrated to work and there are methods that are shown not to. Unfortunately, the ones that work don't satisfy the need some have to see others punished. Cest la vie.

Did you read the link?

Don't get me wrong by the way. I read a horrific story, read a ridiculously short sentence and wish horrible punishments on people. When I lived in London I read stories that would break your heart and boiled your blood and pined for kneecappings and life without parole, but it doesn't work in the long run.

One benefit of globalisation and the modern world is that we can see what works where and what doesn't. Senseless to pine over after societies that do it wrong.

darkpagandeath · 14-05-2015 09:39PM

LDN_Irish wrote: »

There are methods that are demonstrated to work and there are methods that are shown not to. Unfortunately, the ones that work don't satisfy the need some have to see others punished. Cest la vie.

Did you read the link?

Yeah the victims live in fear.

darkpagandeath · 14-05-2015 09:40PM

Originally Posted by LDN_Irish View Post
There are methods that are demonstrated to work and there are methods that are shown not to. Unfortunately, the ones that work don't satisfy the need some have to see others punished. Cest la vie.

Did you read the link?

LDN_Irish wrote: »

Don't get me wrong by the way. I read a horrific story, read a ridiculously short sentence and wish horrible punishments on people. When I lived in London I read stories that would break your heart and boiled your blood and pined for kneecappings and life without parole, but it doesn't work in the long run.

One benefit of globalisation and the modern world is that we can see what works where and what doesn't. Senseless to pine over after societies that do it wrong.

:pac:

Lemming · 14-05-2015 09:42PM

Cold War Kid wrote: »

However, I think they've now learned their lesson (deservedly so) as well as the fact that they are still only 15 or 16 so where else could they go?

Whilst I don't disagree with you, I'm also inclined to think that a very effective example of them could be made given how profile the case was. Lots of young muslim girls get to see that the promise of 'living the good life' is in fact lies & deceit and that if you leave you will never be allowed back as you are simply too dangerous to be allowed back into society.

What about their families too? They are being forgotten a lot of the time in this. I think their families should have them back - they probably want to floor them from a height (understandably) but no doubt want them back too.

I rather suspect that their families - by and large - have large questions to ask of their own opinions & attitudes towards Britain & western society. These girls didn't just suddenly have the idea pop into their heads to join a bunch of rapists & murderers, nor did they just decide to go seek such an idea out.

I also suspect - rather cynically - that some of the families of those who have left for ISIS (not just these three) are proud of them for having done so. There have been a couple of parents that have expressed pride if I recall.

Hans Bricks · 14-05-2015 09:43PM

end of the road wrote: »

it can, and it will, by those of us who have common sense and don't buy into the hysterical nonsense peddled on here and the daily mail. some people in this thread are like the daily fail on steroids

LDN_Irish wrote: »

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/britain-is-too-tolerant-and-should-interfere-more-in-peoples-lives-says-david-cameron-10246517.html

http://www.techweekeurope.co.uk/e-regulation/snoopers-charter-general-election-surveillance-167888

And then just for the craic (and to show that they do things purely for ideology and not for societal benefit), here's May hiring advisers to see whether a mild stimulant should be banned, them saying no, and her banning it anyway.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10157616/Theresa-May-bans-herbal-drug-khat-against-official-advice.html

Hardly tin foil hate stuff Hans, and I deliberately avoided Guardian articles because I suspect they annoy you even more than they annoy me.

You'll have to forgive me considering it came from the mouth of a poster who has never provided any evidence for anything they state.

3 British ISIS brides that flew into Syria reportedly on the run from their husbands

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