Advertisement
Boards are fundraising to help the people of Ukraine via the Red Cross at this horrific time. Please donate and share if you can, you will find the link here. Many thanks.

Cork Airport - *Read Mod Note in First Post Before Posting*

24567123

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,427 ✭✭✭ highlydebased




  • Registered Users Posts: 9,225 keithclancy


    Carnacalla wrote: »
    One thing I will say, wait for Ryanair to switch to Amsterdam and see how it is then

    Not a hope, Eindhoven Airport is owned by Schiphol Nederland BV. Unlike the DAA they have a clear strategy with focus on Amsterdam as long haul transit hub and Eindhoven Airport for Short Haul.

    http://www.schiphol.nl/SchipholGroup/Company1/Strategy.htm
    To accommodate such selective growth at Schiphol, Eindhoven Airport and Lelystad Airport are undergoing development as alternative airports for non-Mainport-related air traffic.

    DAA could learn a lot from that to be honest.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,331 ✭✭✭ kub


    DAA do what they do best, they look after Dublin Airport.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,627 ✭✭✭✭ JCX BXC


    kub wrote: »
    DAA do what they do best, they look after Dublin Airport.

    Its a state company, it should have the states interests at heart. Abandoning cork is not in the states interests.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,169 denhaagenite


    Carnacalla wrote: »
    Its a state company, it should have the states interests at heart. Abandoning cork is not in the states interests.

    This is really the heart of the problem. The DAA seems to see itself as some sort of Dublin- only organisation, and the government is also leaning that way. It's obvious that, for whatever reason, they all want Dublin and the surrounding areas full to absolute capacity. They seem to be thinking only of the short term, improving infrastructure so that it's absolute world- class but the thing is that can only go so far. There is a lack of housing, massive social deprivation and total traffic gridlock in the capital as it is, there is plenty of space in the rest of the country and branching out to other areas will not be to the detriment of progress in Dublin.

    They're acting like the country is a quarter of the size it actually is. There can be more than one city functioning at a similar level, and an airport is the heart of any city that functions well, especially since Ireland is an island on the periphery of Europe. We live 10 minutes from the airport in Eindhoven and would probably use it the same amount as we use Amsterdam Schiphol. It all depends on price, convenience, time etc etc. The growth of Eindhoven as a technology hub has really been in tandem with the improvement of the airport, and anyone who's been to Amsterdam recently will have noticed absolutely no difference whatsoever in the amount of tourism, trade etc etc there during the period of growth in Eindhoven. To suggest that Eindhoven is any kind of competition for Amsterdam is simply ridiculous.

    It would be interesting to see how the UK airports do things though, I don't have much experience of them.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 2,708 ✭✭✭ roundymac




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,169 denhaagenite


    roundymac wrote: »

    He's trying to sit on the fence, giving the impression that he is concerned about the airport while not making waves with his colleagues. Sure, the debt isn't strictly a massive issue on it's own- money will continue to be made regardless of whether there is a debt or not. The aspect of the debt that makes it an issue is the control it awards the DAA (which is adamant that it is going to act as a rival) and the fact that they can dictate how much fees are at the airport.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,665 ✭✭✭ Cosmo Kramer


    Eindhoven is a terrible choice for comparison to Cork. It has a huge catchment in multiple countries on its doorstep and can therefore offer destinations and, particularly, frequencies that Cork can never hope to match. Cork serves a single Irish province which includes three other airports also offering international flights. Of course it can improve from where it is at the moment but people need to be realistic here. Even with hundreds of millions of Euro being thrown at it Shannon is only achieving very modest increases in traffic and only at the expense of other airports, there is little or no net traffic increase taking place there despite rock bottom charges and fares being offered.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,169 denhaagenite


    I'm not saying that Cork should be as busy as Eindhoven, but what is being done there to grow passenger numbers could be done in Cork as well. That's why I also asked how UK airports outside on London are managing.
    Even with hundreds of millions of Euro being thrown at it Shannon is only achieving very modest increases in traffic and only at the expense of other airports, there is little or no net traffic increase taking place there despite rock bottom charges and fares being offered.

    Exactly. Shannon really has very little to offer foreign travellers. There is absolutely nothing in the immediate area. The only reason the town (if you could call it that) even exists is because an airport was built there.

    Just remember, tourism is a red herring here. Cork needs to push the business angle. Flights to Geneva, Munich, Berlin, Dusseldorf, get the Rome flight back, Brussels, Antwerp....


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,627 ✭✭✭✭ JCX BXC


    Limerick and Ennis fairly close to Shannon.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,169 denhaagenite


    Carnacalla wrote: »
    Limerick and Ennis fairly close to Shannon.

    Please don't nit- pick, I said immediate area. Weren't you asked not to post in this thread? I'd really rather you didn't run the risk of it being closed. Lots of positive contributions here, I know I'm learning to look at things from different angles.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,627 ✭✭✭✭ JCX BXC


    Of course I'm going to post, I have a vested interest in Cork Airport and want to see it succeed. Sadly some of the Fanboys here can't do that without a jab at Shannon. I responded because you are completely 100% wrong in the presumption that Shannon Airport has nothing to offer tourists. Shannon airport is closer to Limerick than Belfast international Is to Belfast.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,169 denhaagenite


    I am not shouting for tourism here. I am trying to appeal to the economic nature of the government, as I have throughout the thread. Shannon is a great place to travel to if you want to see the West as a tourist, but there is no point in saying that there would be as much interest there for large multinationals to have their employees travel to and from there.

    Please read the thread before posting pointless one liners that contribute nothing. I'm not a "fanboy" and I have nothing against Shannon Airport, until flights are poached because the DAA is afraid of the potential in Cork. Shannon should be supporting Cork if anything.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,225 keithclancy


    Eindhoven is a terrible choice for comparison to Cork. It has a huge catchment in multiple countries on its doorstep and can therefore offer destinations and, particularly, frequencies that Cork can never hope to match. Cork serves a single Irish province which includes three other airports also offering international flights. Of course it can improve from where it is at the moment but people need to be realistic here. Even with hundreds of millions of Euro being thrown at it Shannon is only achieving very modest increases in traffic and only at the expense of other airports, there is little or no net traffic increase taking place there despite rock bottom charges and fares being offered.

    It's not really, the Transport links between Noord-Brabant and Belgium/Germany are awful so they are out.

    Unless you go by Car from Dusseldorf or Antwerp it's not worth your while.

    Dusseldorf for example is three hours by high frequency public transport (every hour) vs 1hr 20 minutes by car

    There's a bus that takes 1hr 30 minutes but depending on the E34/A61 can take up to 3 hours as well .. or in the summer you could be stuck on the thing for up to 5 hours.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,427 ✭✭✭ highlydebased


    . Shannon should be supporting Cork if anything.

    Indeed as any new air access outside of Dublin is to be welcomed however what seems to to be the case following a breakfast briefing with a Cork business association this morning is that the airport is keen on willy waving what it has over SNN i.e more routes and pax. They'd be better off focusing on working with tourism bodies to grow an inbound product and improving business access where possible rather than just being dead set on poaching pax back from SNN by heavily advertising London and Malaga flights in Limerick! Not quite sure if it's hit home in Cork yet but while years ago it was common to see those in Limerick/North Tipp and further afield to use Cork as a rule, access to Dublin is now overwhelmingly easier as we all know and sadly for Cork (and SNN) neither airport really get a look in anymore!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,086 ✭✭✭ Figerty


    I am not shouting for tourism here. I am trying to appeal to the economic nature of the government, as I have throughout the thread. Shannon is a great place to travel to if you want to see the West as a tourist, but there is no point in saying that there would be as much interest there for large multinationals to have their employees travel to and from there.

    Please read the thread before posting pointless one liners that contribute nothing. I'm not a "fanboy" and I have nothing against Shannon Airport, until flights are poached because the DAA is afraid of the potential in Cork. Shannon should be supporting Cork if anything.

    There is a huge multinational presence in the mid-west region; far greater than you give credit for. I can do a list for you if you want. draw a ring around Shannon airport and look at the list that is there. Draw a bigger ring around Limerick and do a count there...Then look at the medical device sector along the west coast and add that in.
    Shannon is massive when it comes to Tourism and Manufacturing. Nearly a million people visited the Cliff of Moher in 2013; almost 3 times that of Blarney. Bunratty has dropped out of the top ten.
    Cork is massive when it comes to pharma and manufacturing.
    The long runway in Shannon makes it critical for Ireland as a stand by runway. Turkish Airlines just made a major freight commitment to Shannon also to hub to the US.
    The most creative use of Shannon-Cork would be to land in either one, do the Wild Atlantic way from Galway to Cobh etc. Both should benefit.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,627 ✭✭✭✭ JCX BXC


    The Save Cork Airport page are reporting that 8 of the first 10 flights to Prague are cancelled. Lack of marketing being the reason blaimed.

    Such a new route on an unknown airline in Ireland really should be advertised by the airport.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,149 ✭✭✭ .red.


    Carnacalla wrote: »
    The Save Cork Airport page are reporting that 8 of the first 10 flights to Prague are cancelled. Lack of marketing being the reason blaimed.

    Such a new route on an unknown airline in Ireland really should be advertised by the airport.

    I think the first weekend of the prague is going ahead, its gone again for 4/5 weeks and coming back doing the prague/ibiza routes. The route had medium book loads and supposedly the aircraft is going to be used as a charter for the weeks its missing from cork.
    I can see prague as being a very good winter venue, not so sure as a summer one. Hopefully they realise this and dont cancel it due to summer bookings.


  • Registered Users Posts: 525 ✭✭✭ rebs23


    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/cork-airports-200m-debt-is-a-red-herring-328943.html
    Interesting article and a strange one. It begs the question as to why Cork cannot compete with "ultra low cost" Shannon and also why no "commercial" airport could compete with the Shannon incentives.
    Again it confirms the loss of passengers from Cork to Shannon as a result of incentives Shannon can offer.
    For all those from the Mid West on here wondering why so many in Cork are annoyed with the deal Shannon got. Please read the article. Why did one former state Airport secure a deal that allows it to effectively undermine another?

    As for the silly arguments about catchment areas and surrounding industry, there is simply a significant difference between the population of Cork and Limerick/Shannon and indeed the catchment areas. There are also a significant difference in terms of industrial/foreign direct investment employment between the two regions. To try to claim otherwise is utterly ridiculous.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,169 denhaagenite


    So this German route that they keep banging on about. Where would people like it to be? For selfish reasons, I would vote for Dusseldorf. Maybe they could have flights (not daily) to Munich, Dusseldorf, Berlin, possibly using the same aircraft?


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 9,225 keithclancy


    Figerty wrote: »
    There is a huge multinational presence in the mid-west region; far greater than you give credit for. I can do a list for you if you want. draw a ring around Shannon airport and look at the list that is there. Draw a bigger ring around Limerick and do a count there...Then look at the medical device sector along the west coast and add that in.
    Shannon is massive when it comes to Tourism and Manufacturing. Nearly a million people visited the Cliff of Moher in 2013; almost 3 times that of Blarney. Bunratty has dropped out of the top ten.
    Cork is massive when it comes to pharma and manufacturing.
    The long runway in Shannon makes it critical for Ireland as a stand by runway. Turkish Airlines just made a major freight commitment to Shannon also to hub to the US.
    The most creative use of Shannon-Cork would be to land in either one, do the Wild Atlantic way from Galway to Cobh etc. Both should benefit.

    Please point out somewhere I can spend my last night visiting Ireland within 15 minutes of Shannon airport by Taxi to enjoy some activities that do not involve having a rental car to get to them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,427 ✭✭✭ highlydebased


    Please point out somewhere I can spend my last night visiting Ireland within 15 minutes of Shannon airport by Taxi to enjoy some activities that do not involve having a rental car to get to them.

    Plenty of lovely pubs, restaurants and very decent hotels in Limerick to spend a night at. You'd be from the Strand hotel to SNN in about 20 min by taxi for example.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,188 ✭✭✭✭ rob316


    Its a joke of a situation, we are run by the DAA whose interest only serves the greater Dublin Area. Shannon broke off from the DAA and can now set its own prices which it now turns a profit.

    Cork Airport charge €17 per passenger to the airlines, in comparison Dublin charge a maximum of circa €10. Kerry and Shannon charge even less.

    It needs to break off from the DAA and become privatised.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,169 denhaagenite


    Plenty of lovely pubs, restaurants and very decent hotels in Limerick to spend a night at. You'd be from the Strand hotel to SNN in about 20 min by taxi for example.

    It's not as convenient as Cork though, nor are there more multinationals within spitting distance of the airport, nor as many holiday makers to entice and all the rest. Sure if this was the case then an actual city would be built in Shannon, or one made out of Ennis. What sane minded tourist would take a taxi at the cost of €20 - €30 when they could get a bus which would be a tenth of the price? Ditto for range of accommodation, dining, nightlife etc etc.

    However, the tourism point is not being disputed by me, or the fact that Shannon should still continue to service the international routes. They should share that load with Dublin, as Cork should share the load of the European routes. Shannon should not be undercutting Cork for the European routes though. And the question as to why Shannon should be separated from the DAA and have their debt wiped and Cork not should be answered immediately.

    The thing that Shannon airport supporters really have to remember is that it doesn't matter what the Cork airport supporters say, the routes that are being lost in Cork are being lost to Shannon and this is being done intentionally by the Shannon Airport Authority. They are complicit with the DAA in making Cork uncompetitive, and this is for the most part beyond Cork's control. The DAA control budgets for marketing, airport landing charges and talks with potential airlines. We can say whatever we like about Shannon but it will do nothing more than hurt Shannon's feelings. There is plenty of money to be made in Shannon by concentrating on international routes but it is blatantly taking advantage of Cork's situation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,029 Rhys Essien


    In fairness,Shannon airport is not the problem,its the government who are the problem.Cork companies and workers pay billions in taxes to the national coffers annually yet the debt at Cork airport is ~€120m give or take.The government should be writing this debt off straight away if they were doing their job right.

    Also,if the sale of Aer Lingus goes ahead as expected,the government will recieve ~€400m.

    No excuses here,they are presently strangling the Cork economy,tourism,jobs etc.

    We need to be calling for independence no later than 12 months from now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,225 keithclancy


    Plenty of lovely pubs, restaurants and very decent hotels in Limerick to spend a night at. You'd be from the Strand hotel to SNN in about 20 min by taxi for example.

    http://www.transportforireland.ie/taxi/taxi-fare-estimator/

    Shannon Airport to the Strand Hotel Limerick - 1 Passenger

    €31.40 to €41.60
    Please note: the above fare is an indicative estimate only and should not be taken as a guaranteed fare.
    Distance 23.8 km
    No traffic (26 min)
    Heavy traffic (47 min)

    4 passengers on the Night rate with a booked taxi:

    €44.20 to €55.60
    Please note: the above fare is an indicative estimate only and should not be taken as a guaranteed fare.
    Distance 23.8 km
    No traffic (26 min)
    Heavy traffic (47 min)

    Cork Airport to the River Lee Hotel Cork - 1 Passenger

    €11.60 to €18.00
    Please note: the above fare is an indicative estimate only and should not be taken as a guaranteed fare.
    Distance 8.1 km
    No traffic (15 min)
    Heavy traffic (28 min)

    4 Passengers on the Night rate with a booked taxi:
    €19.20 to €26.40
    Please note: the above fare is an indicative estimate only and should not be taken as a guaranteed fare.
    Distance 8.1 km
    No traffic (15 min)
    Heavy traffic (28 min)

    Cost for a taxi from Limerick Center to Shannon Airport by Taxi is too much and the time is too long.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,427 ✭✭✭ highlydebased


    It's not as convenient as Cork though, [...] What sane minded tourist would take a taxi at the cost of €20 - €30 when they could get a bus which would be a tenth of the price? Ditto for range of accommodation, dining, nightlife etc etc.

    Then they could get the bus right from the door of the Strand hotel (or the city) to the door of the airport for €7.50, 20-25 min spin and the first one is at 5am.

    Not a point worth debating really as if someone wanted to spend a night somewhere before flying out there are reasonable, affordable and close options for both Shannon and Cork that don't involve having to stay at the airport hotels


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,648 vkid


    Please point out somewhere I can spend my last night visiting Ireland within 15 minutes of Shannon airport by Taxi to enjoy some activities that do not involve having a rental car to get to them.

    Bunratty is about the closest...Go to a banquet, check the folk park, go to Durty Nellys for some Trad. choice of bars and restaurants, shop in Meadows and Byrnes.. regular bus direct to/from the Airport and beyond using the private operators..even to Dublin. Taxi about 12-15 Eu tops..depending on who you use.
    Ennis by bus/taxi
    Limerick as already stated.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,225 keithclancy


    Then they could get the bus right from the door of the Strand hotel (or the city) to the door of the airport for €7.50, 20-25 min spin and the first one is at 5am.

    Not a point worth debating really as if someone wanted to spend a night somewhere before flying out there are reasonable, affordable and close options for both Shannon and Cork that don't involve having to stay at the airport hotels

    The 343 bus from there takes 45 minutes.

    That's too long also.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 9,225 keithclancy


    vkid wrote: »
    Bunratty is about the closest...Go to a banquet, check the folk park, go to Durty Nellys for some Trad. choice of bars and restaurants, shop in Meadows and Byrnes.. regular bus direct to/from the Airport and beyond using the private operators..even to Dublin. Taxi about 12-15 Eu tops..depending on who you use.
    Ennis by bus/taxi
    Limerick as already stated.

    Meadows and Byrne .... That's just homeware no ?

    Walking distance in Bunratty there is not much to do other than pubs and the castle without a car:
    http://www.tripadvisor.ie/Attractions-g212526-Activities-Bunratty_County_Clare.html#MAPVIEW


Advertisement