College Renting; List of Damage/Repair Costs

MauraTheThird · 01-05-2015 9:07am #1

Hi, myself and three other girls live in a house that we rent which is managed by an estate agents in Cork. This morning, we got a letter in the post detailing a list of potential costs for cleaning/damages/repairs.

We are very clean/tidy girls (and I mean that seriously) and have kept the house very well. Obviously there has been general wear and tear from the four of us living here but we've not broken anything or damaged the house in any way.

We are just wondering if these lists are normal/enforceable because we don't want to leave and get a huge bill for something we shouldn't be getting billed for.

Things on this list were never included in the house first day eg. an ironing board so we are wondering whether we will be charged for something that was never here.

Thanks for any help

athtrasna · 01-05-2015 9:11am

Did you get an inventory when you moved in? It's going to be difficult for you to prove you never had an ironing board if you didn't get a list of contents at the start of your tenancy.

Mrs OBumble · 01-05-2015 9:14am

Like it says one the first page, just hand the property back in good condition.

Seriously, the amount of wear and tear in less than one year should be minimal.

MauraTheThird · 01-05-2015 9:16am

athtrasna wrote: »

Did you get an inventory when you moved in? It's going to be difficult for you to prove you never had an ironing board if you didn't get a list of contents at the start of your tenancy.

My lease is at home (not in college accom) so I'll check it when I go back. I will ring them and judge what the likelihood of us getting charged for anything is because we have had a good relationship all year.

Clearlier · 01-05-2015 9:19am

MauraTheThird wrote: »

Hi, myself and three other girls live in a house that we rent which is managed by an estate agents in Cork. This morning, we got a letter in the post detailing a list of potential costs for cleaning/damages/repairs.

We are very clean/tidy girls (and I mean that seriously) and have kept the house very well. Obviously there has been general wear and tear from the four of us living here but we've not broken anything or damaged the house in any way.

We are just wondering if these lists are normal/enforceable because we don't want to leave and get a huge bill for something we shouldn't be getting billed for.

Things on this list were never included in the house first day eg. an ironing board so we are wondering whether we will be charged for something that was never here.

Thanks for any help

It looks like a standard list that the estate agent has. I'm sure that it hasn't been adapted to your particular house. Take photographs of everything when you leave and if there is a dispute you can try and negotiate. If you don't get satisfaction that way you can raise a dispute with the PRTB.

the groutch · 01-05-2015 9:19am

If they try charge you for any of these at the end, ask them for a copy of any invoice from whatever cleaner they contract to do the job, or in the case of broken items a copy of the receipts for the items.

db · 01-05-2015 9:23am

From the first list, if you are reasonably tidy none of it will apply to you. Items on the second list will only apply if they were in the house and on an inventory and were damaged by you. I would see these lists as very useful as you can make sure that everything is at the standard expected before any inspection. This is just my opinion, others may differ.

MauraTheThird · 01-05-2015 9:25am

Does it have to be a cleaner that they contract to clean the house? We also have a garden out the back that is covered in leaves because of a neighbour's tree. Should we be clearing these as well?

We are new to renting (we lived in student accomodation prior to this so just want to be confident with everything). We just want to make sure we have everything sorted so we won't get any surprises.

I'm sure we won't have a problem because we didn't have any issues all year with them (they've said they wished we were staying on) so I'm sure we are worried about nothing.

beauf · 01-05-2015 9:31am

The Garden isn't your problem unless you agreed to look after it. I think the leaves are not an not an issue. Clean the house as if your mum was coming to stay. That's all. Do things like the cooker and fridge. That's all really.

Take photos and make note where the inventory doesn't match the house. It's probably a generic list which is a bit lazy on the agents part.

Casati · 01-05-2015 9:47pm

Maybe dont pay the last months rent and leave them the deposit - thats what most tenants do

beauf · 01-05-2015 10:23pm

No they don't.

MauraTheThird · 02-05-2015 9:23am

Casati wrote: »

Maybe dont pay the last months rent and leave them the deposit - thats what most tenants do

Not that we would, but the estate agent takes the 9 months rent over 8 months so 9x€400 works out as 8x€450. They obviously have had people do it before :rolleyes:

Rabo Karabekian · 02-05-2015 9:36am

beauf wrote: »

No they don't.

No, you're right, they don't. You give your deposit over to the landlord/estate agent (so they can bank it while you stay in their property) and then you can expect to wait a month or two after you have left before you get it back. Perfect system.

Arbiter of Good Taste · 02-05-2015 9:46am

Rabo Karabekian wrote: »

No, you're right, they don't. You give your deposit over to the landlord/estate agent (so they can bank it while you stay in their property) and then you can expect to wait a month or two after you have left before you get it back. Perfect system.

That's what happens when you rent. In other countries you could pay up to 3 months' deposit. If you don't like it, save up and buy.

tuisginideach · 02-05-2015 9:52am

Casati wrote: »

Maybe dont pay the last months rent and leave them the deposit - thats what most tenants do

That's the sort of nasty attitude that causes landlords to avoid/penalise certain tenants.

tuisginideach · 02-05-2015 9:54am

MauraTheThird wrote: »

Not that we would, but the estate agent takes the 9 months rent over 8 months so 9x€400 works out as 8x€450. They obviously have had people do it before :rolleyes:

The landlord is facilitating you by giving you a nine month lease. Decent landlord - many students have to take a year's lease.

blackbird 49 · 02-05-2015 10:04am

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

That's what happens when you rent. In other countries you could pay up to 3 months' deposit. If you don't like it, save up and buy.

She only asking for people opinions, how many college students do you know who can save up and buy, there are working people out there who can even save up and buy

myshirt · 02-05-2015 10:07am

I'll give you my experience, and pepper it with saying 'take your own advice, potentially go to citizens information as a first port of call'.

In any event, my experience...

Refer to the PRTB, overhold the property, and let it to PRTB to make a determination. You have absolutely zero to lose to that point, and all to gain. All perfectly legal, and it hits the landlord for time and cost, it doesn't hit you.

What this means is you stay in the property, you pay no rent, and you wait for your PRTB appointment. Do put away the rent into a form of escrow though. Review absolutely everything you can online in terms of landlord compliance and bring this to your appointment. You need no more than a layman understanding, being a young girl.

Let me tell you, I have never, ever lost a PRTB representing tenants, even where they behaved borderline on appallingly, and I have lost every (bar one) PRTB hearing representing landlords or having another solicitor represent the landlord I was acting for. One particular case still gives me nightmares as we had a slam dunk case, even got advice from counsel that the law couldn't have been more on our side, but he was roaring laughing saying to us to let him know how we got on. He was a college friend, otherwise it would have been totally unprofessional. We lost. And it cost... There is very, very strong precedent in favour of tenants, and let me tell you, absolutely stick it to landlords like this, fully press everything that is available to you legally here, hit them right where it hurts because I can see exactly what they are at, and it's not on. I suppose the boards equivalent of this type of person would be described as 'rules lawyers', it's totally disingenuous.

Hopefully you will come out with a tidy sum in your pocket, and that'll soften their cough.

If I had the time I'd be going back to fixing a few wagons amongst the landlord community.

MauraTheThird · 02-05-2015 10:37am

This has all gone a bit off topic.

I never said I wouldn't pay rent, I don't think that's very fair and was just saying at any rate, we had it paid so we wouldn't be going down that avenue in any way.

None of us pay are not paying the rent, the lease is for 9 months which is the norm in Cork for students. We have all paid our rent, the electricity, oil, water charges, everything and anything that we had to pay.

All I wanted to know was the list of charges for cleaning/damages excessive and enforceable? We definitely didn't get an inventory (our mistake) but we have photos of the house at the beginning and will take photos we move out. It does say if the house is reasonable that they won't kick in, but we are just anxious that if we got this list at all, we should probably expect some charge.

Someone mentioned asking for the receipts for cleaning services to be produced if we do get hit with charges. Is there anything along these lines we should ask for when moving out? We have been asked to show that we have ended the electrical/water charges contracts with them being paid, on moving out.

CatFromHue · 02-05-2015 5:07pm

If you actually are clean and tidy you should be ok.

The only people I know who ended up having an EA/LL arrange a cleaner for their place after they left did actually leave a mess/damage.

Send the EA/LL an email or ring them on Tuesday morning to say there's items on the list that never came with the apartment. I wouldn't leave it until you are actually leaving to mention that. When you're on to them ask them what they consider to be clean as well.

It's more than likely a generic form sent out to remind tenants to clean the place before they leave.

tuisginideach · 02-05-2015 5:32pm

MauraTheThird wrote: »

This has all gone a bit off topic.

I never said I wouldn't pay rent, I don't think that's very fair and was just saying at any rate, we had it paid so we wouldn't be going down that avenue in any way.

You are absolutely right - it has gone off topic and people are using it to air their massive chips on shoulders re landlords. You say you kept house clean, paid rent etc - I doubt you have anything to worry about - you say you would have been welcome to stay on - I would imagine that list is a generic list and that the agent just sends it automatically. If you have photos showing the house is in the same condition on your departure as on your arrival I'm sure no landlord is going to worry about an X missing. Good luck and well done for being a conscientious tenant.

Rabo Karabekian · 02-05-2015 5:48pm

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

That's what happens when you rent. In other countries you could pay up to 3 months' deposit. If you don't like it, save up and buy.

It's not necessarily either/or. A much better solution would be to have an independent body hold your deposit for you.

MauraTheThird wrote: »

This has all gone a bit off topic.

You're right, apologies. We had a similar thing happen previously. We were given a list of items at the beginning of our tenancy (not sure if that was the case with you) and there were some mistakes on it, so we notified the EA of this. To be honest, we didn't hear much from the EA throughout the course of our tenancy, so we had to just assume everything was in order. I would query the items on the list that weren't in the house in case the landlord isn't as decent as yourselves.

To be fair, if you're good tenants (which you seem to be) I doubt you'll have anything to worry about. I think most landlords/EAs include these clauses to cover themselves in the event of a disaster tenant.

Arbiter of Good Taste · 03-05-2015 2:04am

blackbird 49 wrote: »

She only asking for people opinions, how many college students do you know who can save up and buy, there are working people out there who can even save up and buy

Did you bother even reading my post? I was responding to the poster that was suggesting that the deposit was some sort of scam, not to the OP.

Arbiter of Good Taste · 03-05-2015 2:09am

Rabo Karabekian wrote: »

It's not necessarily either/or. A much better solution would be to have an independent body hold your deposit for you.

I've rented in countries where that is the norm. There will still be a delay in getting back your deposit. That's life.

The_Conductor · 03-05-2015 9:01am

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

I've rented in countries where that is the norm. There will still be a delay in getting back your deposit. That's life.

Ditto.
Often the agency will also conduct an inspection and an inventory on behalf of the landlord and tenant at the beginning and end of the tenancy.
Scotland has a slightly less obtrusive version- where its simply a holding agency for the deposit. Personally- I'd rather an agency, viewed by all as independent- who would in a non-biased and fully clear process- manage any deductions. This would include both parties signing off on the property at the commencement- along with photographs of everything- which would be available to both parties at any time.

The current adversarial approach by a significant cohort of both tenants and landlords serves no-one aside from those who are willing to run roughshod over the act- in the knowledge they will not be pulled up on their actions.

As part of all of this- reasonable deposits should be taken from tenants- and I would argue that landlords should be allowed structure deposits on a risk basis- aka a single parent with 2 kids living with him/her- gets a 1 month deposit, students- 3 or 4 months etc. A register of landlords and tenants- and their previous history in the industry should be kept and made available to prospective tenants and landlords- so everyone goes in with open eyes as to what their landlord or tenant has historically done. If someone skips off without paying their last month (or multiple month's rent)- or overstays- it should be recorded. If a landlord inappropriately garnishes a tenant's deposit- it should be recorded. Any inappropriate behaviour on the part of a landlord should be recorded.

And........ where antisocial behaviour and/or non-payment of rent occurs- the tenant should be summarily removed from the property- get rid of this crap where it can take over a year to get a property back.

The current system sucks to high heaven. It doesn't work. Period.

foggy_lad · 03-05-2015 12:12pm

MauraTheThird wrote: »

This has all gone a bit off topic.

I never said I wouldn't pay rent, I don't think that's very fair and was just saying at any rate, we had it paid so we wouldn't be going down that avenue in any way.

None of us pay are not paying the rent, the lease is for 9 months which is the norm in Cork for students. We have all paid our rent, the electricity, oil, water charges, everything and anything that we had to pay.

All I wanted to know was the list of charges for cleaning/damages excessive and enforceable? We definitely didn't get an inventory (our mistake) but we have photos of the house at the beginning and will take photos we move out. It does say if the house is reasonable that they won't kick in, but we are just anxious that if we got this list at all, we should probably expect some charge.

Someone mentioned asking for the receipts for cleaning services to be produced if we do get hit with charges. Is there anything along these lines we should ask for when moving out? We have been asked to show that we have ended the electrical/water charges contracts with them being paid, on moving out.

All you need to worry about is that the place is clean when you leave and that you can prove this with photographic evidence.

When cleaning start with the ceilings and go through every room with a sweeping brush covered with a duster sweeping down cobwebs and dust from ceilings, corners, walls and around lights and light shades and fittings. Remove glass shades from lights if possible and wash them.

Then in every room wipe around all the electrical sockets and switches, then wash and clean along the skirting boards in every room making sure to pay particular attention to behind furniture and sofas.

If you come across any nasty surprises during a deep clean like burn marks under furniture or filthy dirty walls that will require cleaning then take pictures and then try to clean then take more pictures after cleaning.

Next then will be the windows both inside and out and then you can start on the floors and toilets, use a good limescale remover on tiles around the bath or in the shower to remove that dull limescale scum that builds up over time.

After all that you should be fine!

CatFromHue · 03-05-2015 2:23pm

That's quite comprehensive Foggy, another way to think about is what was the place like when you moved in?

Lingua Franca · 03-05-2015 3:51pm

Further to foggy_lad's post, if your oven is a bit grim then get one of those chemicals-in-a-bag cleaning kits and follow the instructions carefully. Those are best left to work overnight. It will cost you about a fiver as opposed to the 30 the agency will charge to get a cleaner in to do it.

Rabo Karabekian · 05-05-2015 6:26pm

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

Did you bother even reading my post? I was responding to the poster that was suggesting that the deposit was some sort of scam, not to the OP.

If that's directed at me, I wasn't suggesting that it's some sort of scam but a not-particularly-effective system that can be abused (by landlords and, indeed, tenants). No chip on my shoulder: Bar one experience (and it was an EA, not a landlord) all my landlord/landladies have been wonderful people to deal with.

Lemming · 05-05-2015 7:56pm

Lingua Franca wrote: »

Further to foggy_lad's post, if your oven is a bit grim then get one of those chemicals-in-a-bag cleaning kits and follow the instructions carefully. Those are best left to work overnight. It will cost you about a fiver as opposed to the 30 the agency will charge to get a cleaner in to do it.

'Oven Pride' does the job rather nicely; best left overnight followed by a soak with warm soapy water. Racks & trays placed in rather large sealable bag with approx. 2/3 of the liquid solution, other 1/3 can then be applied over the internal surfaces of the oven (obviously NOT on the element ... ). Beats the hell out of giving it serious elbow grease!

tuisginideach · 05-05-2015 9:31pm

Lemming - do you use OverPride on roasting trays/ grill pan etc - I'd love to but fear I might damage them (sadly I'm not one for having shiny silver ones)?

College Renting; List of Damage/Repair Costs

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