How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

Ozymandius2011 · 30-04-2015 12:14AM

BontyMurns wrote:

I don't care about HIV/AIDS, that's a matter for the gay community to sort out for themselves.

Actually it does affect you because it costs the taxpayer to treat it in the health service.

Bridge93 · 30-04-2015 12:17AM

How does gay couples adopting influence young straight couples having kids? The majority of cases I would imagine will be orphans or kids put up for adoption so no, no infringement there.
I don't think many young women in relationships planning having their own kids are going to put their family plans on hold to be a surrogate mother. Surrogacy will be a tiny proportion as it is so no, no infringement there either.

But I'm sure youre right and SSM is at fault for the falling birth rate in Western Europe...
Honestly argument used against them is they can't reproduce and yet they are at fault for others not reproducing.

dashcamdanny · 30-04-2015 12:18AM

Some of the crap on here is hard to read.

BontyMurns made a few point that have him concerned about the result of the vote. In his mind, very valid points.

BlitzKrieg makes a decent argument.

The rest of you sound like a big bunch of gays circled around him, throwing the contents of your handbags at him.

BontyMurns · 30-04-2015 12:20AM

kevin12345 wrote: »

You should win some sort of medal for insulting such a large group of people in just one post, really, I think you touched on nearly every bit of misinformation the No side is spreading all wrapped up in one post. Bravo.

Social experiment my ar*e.

Do you understand what a social experiment is? We have comparatively zero data on what happens when a child is brought up by a gay couple. Placing a child to be brought up by a gay couple, at the moment, is very much part of a social experiment.

You see you're part of the current problem. Reality and facts no longer matter, just totally mindless feel-good left wing politics.

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

why are you sick of it, what did they do more then any of the other movements of recent years to make you more sick of them?

More than any of the other movements? Well, relative to other pretty mindless left-wing movements we're seeing these days, not all that much but then I'm pretty much sick of the lot of it.

So we shall be putting an age limit on marriage then, only young fertile people capable of providing offspring shall be married? Should we also introduce a mandatory fertile test before one can take a marriage licence?

Nope, no test needed. Given a married couple a few years to produce a child and if they don't, remove the tax benefits associated with being married. Fairly simple and fair really. If they go on to have kids later on then give them their benefits back but until then they should be paying the same as anyone else who doesn't have kids and isn't married.

You keep making this as some left wing *thing* yet I dont see any of the major right wing parties or groups or major businesses in ireland opposing it either?

Of course they're not. It'd be political suicide to come out against the left-wing social agenda these days. Look at the ****storms they create on social media over the smallest things, the public shaming they do, the threats they levy on people and more. It's easier to just stay quiet or feign support, especially if your career is in the balance.

Bridge93 · 30-04-2015 12:21AM

dashcamdanny wrote: »

Some of the crap on here is hard to read.

BontyMurns made a few point that have him concerned about the result of the vote. In his mind, very valid point.

BlitzKrieg makes a decent argument.

The rest of you sound like a big bunch of gays circled around him, throwing the contents of your handbags at him.

What does a gay sound like?

pl4ichjgy17zwd · 30-04-2015 12:21AM

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

strange, it shows up in google but everytime I click it I get sent back to my timeline on facebook. and a link from the page I shared has vanished from my own page.

Dunno if this will work for you at all but this is link opening for me

PopePalpatine · 30-04-2015 12:21AM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

So many many issues.
The 21st century must be very difficult for you petal.

Here's an escape route for him.

Uncle Ben · 30-04-2015 12:22AM

I don't trust the govt and don't trust the church. I think I'll give the referendum a miss this year.

Bannasidhe · 30-04-2015 12:22AM

Ozymandius2011 wrote: »

Actually it does affect you because it costs the taxpayer to treat it in the health service.

And unlike Bonty it doesn't discriminate.

Equal opportunity virus - as of 2013 there were approx 3.2 million children under the age of 15 who were HIV positive. Can't blame 'the gays' for that. It is a human tragedy.

dashcamdanny · 30-04-2015 12:23AM

Bridge93 wrote: »

What does a gay sound like?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVTDzkI4yu8

aloyisious · 30-04-2015 12:23AM

frostyjacks wrote: »

They're not being denied anything, if they're not entitled to it in the first place. The equality argument is getting tiresome.

And there I was thinking that that was what the referendum was about, whether the voters think homosexual couples should have the same entitlement of access to civil marriage that their fellow citizen heterosexual couples have. Maybe it's that you are running out of angles to post here, that you think the argument is getting tiresome.

Zen65 · 30-04-2015 12:24AM

frostyjacks wrote: »

They're not being denied anything, if they're not entitled to it in the first place. The equality argument is getting tiresome.

That's exactly how some people expressed opposition to the ban on slavery, and the extension of voting rights to women.

Honestly Frosty, you should stop trolling here!!

Frank Bullitt · 30-04-2015 12:26AM

dashcamdanny wrote: »

Should you not be out there with him then?

Let him have his say with undermining his argument with crap.

Try facts.

He can have his say all he wants, but his say is nothing more than recycled garbage, that just keeps popping up.

This for example

Besides that, a gay partnership simply isn't equal to a straight one and shouldn't be formally recognised as such. No matter how many times the lefties want to repeat the contrary, it'll never be true. Gay couples can't naturally have children and that fundamentally makes them of less social worth than the union of a straight couple.

As has been said time and time again, this has nothing to do with children, it never has and never will. Its such a useless argument by the No side because it is unfounded. A man and a woman marrying doesn't guarantee that they will have children. The poster also makes an attempt at saying that gay couples are of less social worth because they can't have children, this is a bigoted statement of the vilest kind. A union between 2 people, regardless of sex, is a beautiful thing, its a celebration of love. Just because it is between people of the same sex does not undermine it in the slightest, and saying that is idiotic and makes the person saying it come across as an ignoramus.

"

But but they can adopt!" I hear the lefties protest. Gay adoption, at this stage, amounts to a social experiment as we have absolutely zero idea of how it will turn out at scale and over time. I think it's rather cruel to put innocent children into unknown situations for social experiments simply to see how things turn out. We, as a species, have done just fine until now relying on men and women reproducing and raising kids.

More bigotry. This poster hasn't got a grasp on morals, let alone social experiments. There is somewhat of an indication that a man and a woman can only raise a child. Really? So single parents, for whatever reason that may be, aren't qualified to raise children?

Parenting has nothing to do with this referendum, but ill address it in that parenting has to do with good people raising children, regardless of sex. A loving environment is what is needed and this isn't exclusive to a man and woman environment. So attempting to say that only men and women are capable of raising children together is a frankly stupid thing to say.

I'm tired of mindless, left-wing, feel-good politics. It has wrought vast amounts of damage, economically and socially, throughout Europe over the last few decades and at this stage needs to be vigorously stamped out and I'll vote against any further silly leftism whenever it may arise, as is the case this May.

I'm tired of single track minded people and statements such as your post. By all means show some evidence of this damage to Europe. I won't hold my breath on this one.

KungPao · 30-04-2015 12:27AM

BontyMurns wrote: »

I'll be voting no. I don't care if you're straight, gay, bisexual, or whatever else you may want to classify yourself as. What you do behind closed doors, so long as nobody is getting hurt, is noone else's business.

I am however absolutely sick of the LGBT political movement and would be delighted to see it (the movement) receiving a swift kick in the face by virtue of receiving a "no" in May.

Besides that, a gay partnership simply isn't equal to a straight one and shouldn't be formally recognised as such. No matter how many times the lefties want to repeat the contrary, it'll never be true. Gay couples can't naturally have children and that fundamentally makes them of less social worth than the union of a straight couple.

"But but they can adopt!" I hear the lefties protest. Gay adoption, at this stage, amounts to a social experiment as we have absolutely zero idea of how it will turn out at scale and over time. I think it's rather cruel to put innocent children into unknown situations for social experiments simply to see how things turn out. We, as a species, have done just fine until now relying on men and women reproducing and raising kids.

A child needs a mother and a father, we've learned this from the sheer havoc single parent, mother-only families have brought to society over the last few decades. I don't care for your personal anecdotes about being raised by a single mother either, there is a vast amount of research and data that points to single parent families being terrible for society, you being a special snowflake bears little weight.

I'm tired of mindless, left-wing, feel-good politics. It has wrought vast amounts of damage, economically and socially, throughout Europe over the last few decades and at this stage needs to be vigorously stamped out and I'll vote against any further silly leftism whenever it may arise, as is the case this May.

...

SpaceTime · 30-04-2015 12:27AM

Emm... Ok! Except it's not a referendum on the government or the church...

ArtyM · 30-04-2015 12:29AM

i am confused about who or where to direct my OUTRAGE on this matter.
Is it the weather, the gays, the gay weather, the developers, the Gods, the gay developer gods, Dublin city, or the guy wearing sunglasses in the pub at this time of night?

PopePalpatine · 30-04-2015 12:29AM

What's the odds that most of the contingent of "No" voters who seem to have a sort of "dark enlightenment" outlook and whine about every bit of progress Western society has made in the past 70 years are basement-dwelling neckbeards who still believe in "scientific racism"?

BlitzKrieg · 30-04-2015 12:31AM

Nope, no test needed. Given a married couple a few years to produce a child and if they don't, remove the tax benefits associated with being married. Fairly simple and fair really. If they go on to have kids later on then give them their benefits back but until then they should be paying the same as anyone else who doesn't have kids and isn't married.

well let me just applaude you for not being someone with double standards hiding behind excuses just cause " you hate the gays" you are actually in favour of a policy that would frankly be very unpopular but sticking with your definition of marriage.

thats your opinion and if you find someone willing to campaign on it all the power to you.

I disagree on many levels, at its core the notion that the family unit is by design purely for procreation, the deeply cynical part of me knows like 90% of all laws across and pretty much every religious scripture under the sun that marriage at its core base is all about property

but thats been buried under so many layers of time and social norms.

So I'll vote yes, because every person should have access to those same protections (and before anyone points out there are about 160 protections in marriage not covered in civil partnerships, guess how many of them deal with the notion of property)

Uncle Ben · 30-04-2015 12:32AM

SpaceTime wrote: »

Emm... Ok! Except it's not a referendum on the government or the church...

Enda, the LP, Aodhan and others on one side followed by Iona, Bishops and others on another. Yep, I'll give it a miss.

BlitzKrieg · 30-04-2015 12:32AM

Ricardo Jealous Mimicry wrote: »

Dunno if this will work for you at all but this is link opening for me

nope

strange strange strange, checking with friends on all sides of the pond.

BontyMurns · 30-04-2015 12:32AM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

So many many issues.
The 21st century must be very difficult for you petal.

Ah, you make something that isn't really personal into something personal to make yourself feel better about whatever it is that's bugging you. Sorry to disappoint you but no, the 21st century is pretty good to me as a straight white guy who is earning extremely well. I've a few niggling issues with the sheer level of economic and social chaos and damage the left-wing are wreaking on my beloved Europe at the moment but that'll likely pass in the coming years.

Again, sorry to disappoint you dear but you don't get to look down your nose at this one.

Ozymandius2011 wrote: »

Actually it does affect you because it costs the taxpayer to treat it in the health service.

So are fat people and smokers.

dashcamdanny wrote: »

The rest of you sound like a big bunch of gays circled around him, throwing the contents of your handbags at him.

That's how it goes. Dissent against the left-wing feel-good narrative and be prepared to have crap slung at you. Sure Europe is economically ruined by left-wing economic policies, and sure European society is facing massive challenges (including physical security) due to left-wing social policies, but they just feel so damn good about themselves in instituting them.

aloyisious · 30-04-2015 12:35AM

I was canvassing today and met a gent who said he would vote YES on the marriage issue but was not happy about gay men being allowed adopt children. I met a few refusals from shops on putting up YES posters, incl one gent who said he wanted nothing to do with "that stuff". This was in an major urban town only 12 miles from the GPO. The vote result is still unsuree, in the way the "Abolish the Seanad" vote result was a surprise to the Gov't. I won't rest til close of polling time on the 22nd.

PopePalpatine · 30-04-2015 12:35AM

Ah, are these left-wing economic policies like allowing feckless financial practices and widescale deregulation of the finance industry?

Ozymandius2011 · 30-04-2015 12:37AM

Rathkeale Parish church handing out this leaflet promoting gay-conversion therapist Dr Joseph Nicolosi,

For the 'doctors' views see here.

We need to follow California in banning this procedure. In the US, some conversion therapists have used electric shocks to 'convert' gays. They are shown images of men and women and if they get aroused to their own sex, they get shocked. I don't know whether Dr Nicolosi's practice involves that but regardless, the concept of conversion therapy leads to parents not accepting their LGBT children, with sometimes tragic results including suicide which have been documented.

Cold War Kid · 30-04-2015 12:40AM

There really are some weird and baffling reasons being thought of for either voting no or not voting.

Uncle Ben wrote: »

Enda, the LP, Aodhan and others on one side followed by Iona, Bishops and others on another. Yep, I'll give it a miss.

The issue is: Should same-sex couples be granted the right to marry each other - no more.

People you don't like, having an opinion on it, is of relevance... how?

Of course they're going to have an opinion on it - as they would in relation to any referendum, but it has zero bearing on what you think of it...

BontyMurns · 30-04-2015 12:40AM

PopePalpatine wrote: »

What's the odds that most of the contingent of "No" voters who seem to have a sort of "dark enlightenment" outlook and whine about every bit of progress Western society has made in the past 70 years are basement-dwelling neckbeards who still believe in "scientific racism"?

Basement dwelling neckbeards? You should head on back to the "dudes" over at Reddit.com, where you got that cringe inducing terminology. Nothing says "I never leave the house and live my life on the internet" that someone spouting off crap from Reddit in a manner that they clearly believe makes themselves sound intelligent or witty.

It also comes across as projecting. You've got all the internet slang down pat, but no it's obviously everyone else who's the lifeless internet addict

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

well let me just applaude you for not being someone with double standards hiding behind excuses just cause " you hate the gays" you are actually in favour of a policy that would frankly be very unpopular but sticking with your definition of marriage.

thats your opinion and if you find someone willing to campaign on it all the power to you.

I disagree on many levels, at its core the notion that the family unit is by design purely for procreation, the deeply cynical part of me knows like 90% of all laws across and pretty much every religious scripture under the sun that marriage at its core base is all about property

but thats been buried under so many layers of time and social norms.

So I'll vote yes, because every person should have access to those same protections (and before anyone points out there are about 160 protections in marriage not covered in civil partnerships, guess how many of them deal with the notion of property)

I've no problem agreeing to disagree with you. As you can see, I'm at least consistent and rational in my application of this stuff. I've no issues with gay people and don't believe they are, or should be, discriminated against when it comes to getting jobs, buying houses and whatever else we enjoy in life. I'm also an atheist so I'm not defending marriage from a religious point of view. I've no issue with the infertile, or those who don't want to have kids, or whatever else either. I just think that society should place those who form stable homes and produce children in a higher, and separate, category to themselves.

And I also say that as a childless person who is on the fence about having kids myself. The people who marry, reproduce and raise children are without a doubt the most important in our society and should be recognised and rewarded as such.

jank · 30-04-2015 12:40AM

Nationalising banks is definitely a hall mark of the left. No self respecting free marketer or right winger would support bank bail outs.

Ozymandius2011 · 30-04-2015 12:41AM

Maybe they were a real couple in a parallel universe, and this is them "breaking up".

Bannasidhe · 30-04-2015 12:42AM

BontyMurns wrote: »

Ah, you make something that isn't really personal into something personal to make yourself feel better about whatever it is that's bugging you. Sorry to disappoint you but no, the 21st century is pretty good to me as a straight white guy who is earning extremely well. I've a few niggling issues with the sheer level of economic and social chaos and damage the left-wing are wreaking on my beloved Europe at the moment but that'll likely pass in the coming years.

Again, sorry to disappoint you dear but you don't get to look down your nose at this one.

So are fat people and smokers.

That's how it goes. Dissent against the left-wing feel-good narrative and be prepared to have crap slung at you. Sure Europe is economically ruined by left-wing economic policies, and sure European society is facing massive challenges (including physical security) due to left-wing social policies, but they just feel so damn good about themselves in instituting them.

Gee... you opine that a person seems to have a few issues (single mothers/anyone leftwing/homosexuals) with the direction western society has taken in the 21st century and it turns into passive aggressive central.
Life would have been soooo much better for you in previous centuries no?

Sorry - you aren't 'bugging' me in the slightest. On the contrary, your post made me laugh out loud - Rightwing Straight White Guy rants about what is 'wrong' with everyone else are always good for a giggle.

BontyMurns · 30-04-2015 12:44AM

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Ah, are these left-wing economic policies like allowing feckless financial practices and widescale deregulation of the finance industry?

The banking debt is ~20% of Ireland's debt. The rest of Ireland's debt, and what it primarily borrows for, is to provide and administrate extremely generous left-wing social programs. Ireland borrows hand over fist and taxes the life out of anyone who has worked to do well for themselves to support these programs it can't really afford.

The financial system and its woes are not only now well in the past but they're merely a blip on the radar of Europe's problems.

How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

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