Re: Adolf Hitler

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Iceland would have been a more suitable goal for the Nazis.

To me it's just wishful thinking that the Soviets and the Nazis would have stayed out of each other's way for long. After all, their respective ideologies pitted themselves as mortal enemies to the other.

Its kind of hilarious that the Germans had not made a plan to invade iceland until *after* the british invaded Iceland (weirdest invasion ever, only 1 death and it was suicide)


Kind of shows how hindsight makes us think for people rather then actually try to think what they would have done based on the info in front of them.


There are thousands of what if scenarios put forward for hitler's germany to survive or win world war 2, from simple chance like the bomber that accidentally bombed London causing a shift from bombing airbases to bombing cities (debated cause some point out if germans had not even shifted to air bases but stayed focused on radar installations they would have been even more successful)

to odd decisions in production, Germany didn't realise the prominence of single engine fighters until *after* the battle of Britain, they genuinely thought it would have been twin engined fighters like the bf 110 that would carry the airforce but when they were so easily proven to be outmatched by hurricanes and the 109 in its current state lacked the fuel reserves to provide adequate cover for the bombers they refocused the structure of the Luftwaffe. (another oddity being the spitfire and the 109 are the poster planes for the battle of Britain but it was the hurricane and bf110 that carried the brunt of that battle)

There are even levels to the decisions, such as the obvious invasion of Russia question, one can say if Germany had held off invading Russia til 1942 they would have fared much better as it would have let them secure the north africa campaign and actually invade on two fronts (which Rommel was pushing for) to the argument that case blue (the plan that led to the battle of stalingrad) if kept in its original simpler form would have also led to victory.


There is a reason why there is a whole industry on making money about these what if scenarios.

Personally I like the notion if Germany had opted to focus on their planned carrier fleet over the few (beautiful but flawed) battleships. a modern (for the time) carrier fleet in the atlantic might have been a bigger upset to the british then the u-boats. As the proposed carriers were faster then any british battleship at the time and could attack at much longer ranges. They only ever built 1 and never finished it.


As for the Catholic Church. Thats an irrelevent discussion, Hitler had his clash with the catholic church prior to the 2nd world war in social issues and he backed off, during the war any and all relations with the catholic church he would have gone through Mussolini who was on excellent terms with the catholic church cause he gave them lots of money which is the best way to get the pope to like you.

(edit: before anyone points out, excellent terms in propaganda, I know personnally Mussolini hated the catholic church, but he did the Lateran treaty with them and that put him on much better terms with the church then hitler was on.)

Hoop66 wrote: »

I would have thought the cathoic church to be a bit irrelevant in this discussion, lacking as they were in any kind of heavy weaponry.

Which was the style at the time.

Influence is also hugely important during war, which the church had in abundance..

riffmongous wrote: »

Definitely, I think as Wurzelbert might have meant, we really do have a western oriented way of looking at this, the whole point of the war was to defeat the Soviets, the western war was mainly to knock out the Brits and French to stop them interfering I think. You can see this in the Nazi plans for after the war, where France and Britain would be allowed to exist in a neutered form while the Soviet Union was to be almost entirely annihilated, except for a part out east. Saying what if Hitler had kept away from the Soviets doesn't make a whole lot of sense, since they were a whole lot of his motivation.

A better question would be what if Britain and France had kept up the plan of appeasement and not declared war on September the 5th and given assurances they wouldnt interfere against the Soviets.

Would'nt that have just 'passed the puck' though. A greatly enlarged germany meaning others having to crank up the old colonialism again.

I have no idea what some island state in the middle of Rome has to bear on the bigger issue.
Alt history : Hitler is left to be due to appeasement.

He grows up and leaves Uncle Joe alone. Settles for what he has, control of mainland Europe.

Wow, he is Napoleon reborn. Except he has a kleptomaniac empire built with street thugs who couldn't run a corner shop. Goering is a junkie. Himmler is way too ambitious and needs clipping. Hitler was, is and always will be the over ambitious corporal.

The Nazi monolith would have self-destructed. Germany would cease to exist. As a nation "Germany" was less than a century old and it only exists to this day as a geographic and industrial usefulness. Stalin and Churchill for different reasons both wanted it turned into farmland. Germans to be used as forced labour until the blood debt was repaid. Germany is ultimately now what Poland used to be - where East meets West. Due to the changing nature of warfare it won't be used as a ditch to fight in. Perhaps to piss in as we check if the radiation levels have dropped.

Sorry Angela, even in a dress you're still better cooked in a bun.

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

There's this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cottage

Between Iceland and Op. Cottage we have two George Clooney vehicles ready to rock and roll. I'm on the beer so I probably will have a script by the weekend. Sooner if I score some blow.
We'll need sex and explosions. Iceland has a volcano so that'll do. I assume women live there as well....**** i should be making notes.