Re: Adolf Hitler

My primary knowledge of WWII is based on leaving cert history as seen through a foggy haze of drugs. So correct me if I go wrong. But wasn't the deal that when Germany rolled into Poland the Russians were supposed to roll in behind them and secure the eastern flank as they pushed towards France? But Stalin held back as he wanted to see what happened? So if Russia kept their end of the bargain the war would have rolled out without an eastern front? What's the RCC got to do with anything? Put a lot of tanks in the field did they? Big ass crosses on them?

Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact. Hitler broke the pact.Stalin and Hitler had been preparing their alliance since 1938. Stalin had the biggest land army at the time. He told hitler that Soviet troops would respond to any invasion of Poland. Hitler created the pact to do this. He also needed the economic relationship with the USSR for a time. Stalin always knew Hitler would invade the USSR eventually..he wanted time to re-arm. Stalin thought though Hitler would not invade for some time. But he misjudged the ratios of force. France collapsed long before Stalin thought it would. Stalin believed that Hitler would not conduct a two front war at the same time. That was the logical thing to do. But he misjudged that. Operation Barbarossa was Hitlers first great mistake. The Soviets were true to the contract until the last they would not have reacted until Hitler invaded the USSR. It's strange when you consider the Soviet soldiers actions after Hitlers suicide. There was a lot of sexual violence in Germany after the war. The majority was sytematic by the soviets and amounted to 2 million. They raped men , children and women even Jewish survivors. They spared no one. Russian civilians living there were not even spared. In contrast the US counted 11 thousand assaults by their soldiers. The soviet zone of occupation was notorious for it years after.

Hilters mistakes were starting a war with the USA and the USSR. But his mistakes were also dependant on the mistakes of his allies. Japan made a huge mistake in pearl harbour. Italy made a mistake in invading Greece. They failed and the Greeks overpowered them forcing Hitler to commit troops. It forced Hitler to delay his attack on Russia for five weeks which was disastrous as this brought them into winter. No one wins Russia in Winter. Hitler also messed up Dunkirk. Hitler rarely listened to his generals. This character flaw of not trusting the counsel of experts may have cost him the war. His generals actually told him repeatedly NOT to invade the USSR. The Germans were arrogant in their military technology they were stunned that the USSR had better tanks and better submachine guns than theirs. But delays were the worst mistake. Germany lost almost as many soldiers to winter weather as to the Soviet solders and the Germans did not know how to look after their weapons in the cold the Russians did. He also listened to goring who was a crazy drug addict.

biko wrote: »

Without the Soviets we'd all be speaking Austrian now.

Actually more likely we'd would have been gassed. Weird Stalin saved his people from Nazi gassing ..killed millions of them himself. Unbelievable.

InitiumNovum wrote: »

I don't see what the RCC has to do with anything. But Nazi Germany was already a de-facto ally of the USSR at the beginning of WW2, e.g. the Non-Aggression Pact, and they had carved up Eastern Europe between themselves. If Nazi Germany had not invaded the USSR, if they had not entered into an alliance with Italy and Japan, and if they had not declared war on the US, there is a good chance that they would still be around to this day.

There's been a couple of books written (and I'm struggling to remember their names) that suggested "What if it hadn't been Hitler" - someone with all the same views but not quite the full nut job - probably would still be around

Bambi wrote: »

And staying pals with japan after they declared war on america probably was'nt a great idea either

Reminds me of one of my favourite pieces from The Onion:

The Onion wrote:

Japan Forms Alliance With White Supremacists in Well-Thought-Out Scheme

From the East Asian Correspondent, Sept 1, 1939. -- In a course of action praised by many as "far-sighted" and "tactically brilliant," the Japanese government has sworn its allegiance to the Axis powers led by white-supremacist Nazi Germany. In a formal statement, Japanese leaders declared, "We wish to be counted among the loyal allies of this back-stabbing, racist hate nation."

Following the announcement, Japanese General and military leader Hideki Tojo told reporters, "We are pleased to enter into an alliance with the paranoid, xenophobic government of Nazi Germany. We anticipate a deeply enriching exchange of our military aid with their deep-seated hated of our non-white heritage."

Tojo went on to say that the "unbeatable team" of Germans and Japanese will one dominate the industrialized world as "Aryans and those hated by Aryans, working together."

Likening their war instincts to those of "a very advanced clan of yellow apes," German Chancellor Adolf Hitler praised the government and military of Japan.

"I salute you, chinky-dinky rat men, who have been given life by the confused hand of some long-dead pagan deity," he said. "When Germany stands victorious on a conquered Earth, and Aryan supermen wipe out the undesirable mud races one by one, your like will surely survive to be among the last to be exterminated."