Early Date Etiquette

Lollipops23 · 29-04-2015 02:16PM #1

I'm living and working in Toronto at the moment and have been amazed at how high maintenance a lot of the ladies are here (I know plenty of Irish girls are too, but it's way more widespread here).

In the break room in work this morning one of the girls was telling a few of us about a date she was on last night and mentioned that she thinks a guy should pay for everything on all the early dates.

I said that, while it's nice for him to offer, I don't actually like it when a guy pays for everything and that if she expects equal pay to a man, she should expect to pay her share. This was not a popular opinion.

What do folk here think? Is it fair to expect a woman to pay for at least part of a date (maybe getting the first round in if he paid for dinner)?

Generic Dreadhead · 29-04-2015 02:21PM

Can't pay? Take her away!

Boskowski · 29-04-2015 02:21PM

I don't think it's so much a gender issue but a question of who asks who.

If I ask a lady for diner to get to know her then I'm basically inviting her for diner. No doubt I'll be paying.
If we agree to meet somewhere in a mutual fashion then it's different.
And if I was asked out for diner I would hardly presume I'm paying although I'd be prepared for it just in case.

Generally speaking I'd probably just pick up the tab the first time and probably the second time too but would get miffed if it became s habit and worse if no attempt was ever made to bring up the subject. And that's nothing to do with finances. It's more about being s princess which wouldn't go down well with me.

When the Sun Hits · 29-04-2015 02:23PM

I pay for everything. But then again two meals at Supermac's isn't very expensive anyway.

pmasterson95 · 29-04-2015 02:24PM

Lollipops23 wrote: »

I'm living and working in Toronto at the moment and have been amazed at how high maintenance a lot of the ladies are here (I know plenty of Irish girls are too, but it's way more widespread here).

In the break room in work this morning one of the girls was telling a few of us about a date she was on last night and mentioned that she thinks a guy should pay for everything on all the early dates.

I said that, while it's nice for him to offer, I don't actually like it when a guy pays for everything and that if she expects equal pay to a man, she should expect to pay her share. This was not a popular opinion.

What do folk here think? Is it fair to expect a woman to pay for at least part of a date (maybe getting the first round in if he paid for dinner)?

I think ya wont get a date with her anytime soon.

Tilly · 29-04-2015 02:27PM

I'm a bit of a 50\50 kinda gal. I do like it when a guy pays for the odd thing but not always. I feel like i owe them something then if that makes any sense?

Cee-Jay-Cee · 29-04-2015 02:29PM

If she puts out on the first date I'll pay, if not, Fcuk off and pay for your own ya Fridget biaaatch!

_Kaiser_ · 29-04-2015 02:29PM

I'd probably pay the first time (unless she insisted on paying her share) but after a few dates I'd expect a more equal setup.. not necessarily splitting every bill but say one person getting the cinema tickets and the other the snacks etc

Have no interest in being an ATM for someone. It never ends well!

Lollipops23 · 29-04-2015 02:34PM

Tilly wrote: »

I'm a bit of a 50\50 kinda gal. I do like it when a guy pays for the odd thing but not always. I feel like i owe them something then if that makes any sense?

Exactly how I feel. Previous boyfriends/dates have always seemed surprised when I've been pretty insistent on paying my way. I went on a date here with a guy and he did pay for the food, and I made sure to get the first round in when we moved on to the bar.

osarusan · 29-04-2015 02:41PM

I'd ignore her perfunctory attempts to pay for the meal, gently take her hand off the bill/bill-holder, but keep hold of her hand, make eye contact, pause significantly, and say "no, you can get the condoms." Then raise an eyebrow, Bond-style.

kylith · 29-04-2015 02:41PM

I'd definitely offer to pay on a first date, or at least to split the bill. If he declined I would insist on paying for the next date.

conorhal · 29-04-2015 02:42PM

That entirely depends on whether or not sex in on the table shortly after the bill is.......

.

Magico Gonzalez · 29-04-2015 02:43PM

Invite someone out for dinner, you pay for the dinner. They pay for the first round if you go for a drink.

It's so awkward in a restaurant the whole "oh no, I insist, let me pay half" discussion, no one needs that kind of awkwardness on a first date. The only way that can be mitigated is if beforehand the invited guest insists that a condition of their coming along is that they pay half, still what do you do when the waiter comes..hand him two cards and face his accusing glances, "miserable guy complicating my life with 2 cards because he won't pay for his date"

Just thinking about it make me glad to be married. First date we went for a drink, i think i got a few rounds and then she got one after. Something like that.

dmc17 · 29-04-2015 02:44PM

conorhal wrote: »

That entirely depends on whether or not sex in on the table shortly after the bill is.......

.

Would you wait until you get to the bedroom.....?

Junkyard Tom · 29-04-2015 02:48PM

It depends. If she's likeable then I'll go 50/50. If there's anything I don't like then it's out the bathroom window and run like fuck.

seamus · 29-04-2015 02:54PM

From what I can tell in the US & Canada the accepted norm is that on the first date, the man pays. A few people go by the "asker pays" rule, which we can all agree is pretty fair, but it's not a widely accepted rule.

However there's an issue in that women hold the sexual balance of power. If a woman asks a man on a date and then refuses to pay for the meal, there's a good chance he'll let it slide if he's attracted to her.
But if the man refused to pay (when the woman asked for the date), the odds of it going any further have just been eliminated.

As a result, it becomes an expected norm that the man always pays because he's the one doing the chasing.

fizzypish · 29-04-2015 02:59PM

I'll probably pay for everything provided its not expected of me. That pisses me off. I choose to pay and that may be stupid but its my choice.

29-04-2015 03:05PM

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

It's so awkward in a restaurant the whole "oh no, I insist, let me pay half" discussion, no one needs that kind of awkwardness on a first date. The only way that can be mitigated is if beforehand the invited guest insists that a condition of their coming along is that they pay half, still what do you do when the waiter comes..hand him two cards and face his accusing glances, "miserable guy complicating my life with 2 cards because he won't pay for his date"

Eating in places like Germany is great I find - because both of the issues you describe above are simply non-issues there entirely. When the waiting staff come to the table to settle the bill - the first question out of their mouths is always "zusammen oder getrennt" or "Together or separate?".

If "together" then the bill gets handed to the person paying. If separate then with no fuss whatsoever each person is invited to identify what they had - and they are given a sub total.

And it is so obviously easy and smooth and issue free that it becomes bizarre to hear conversations like this one where it is portrayed as making the life of the waiting staff miserable. Quite the contrary. Not only is it remarkably easy and problem free - but the waiting staff benefit tips wise as they tend to get individually tipped by each diner - which generally adds up to more than a single payer would have given. Especially in large groups where - sometimes - the dynamic is that each successive tiper might even want to be seen to tip more than everyone else. So in large groups if you listen in - you tend to hear the tips getting higher and higher as the server goes around the group.

Chancer3001 · 29-04-2015 03:45PM

He pays for a dinner, I buy a round....

So equal

Lollipops23 · 29-04-2015 03:51PM

Deleted User wrote: »

E- the first question out of their mouths is always "zusammen oder getrennt" or "Together or separate?".

They normally do that here too. I've been out both with friends and with someone I was dating where they've asked before they get us our bill. Far less hoopla than at home, where they make such a song and dance about it if you want to split a bill.

Egginacup · 29-04-2015 05:59PM

That's why I like Liverpool girls.

They say "alright, fella. I just got paid. Let's get smashed and shag. My treat!"

thelad95 · 30-04-2015 01:48AM

conorhal wrote: »

That entirely depends on whether or not sex in on the table shortly after the bill is.......

.

Some people may frown on ye having sex in a restaurant.

Firewalkwithme · 30-04-2015 02:12AM

Check this from about 7:25 if you want to cut to the chase

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKPrPxZnJPo

PLL · 30-04-2015 04:09AM

Guy pays first date. It's just the rule. After that anything goes, 50/50, she pays... Whichever.

I just think we have to grasp on to some of the traditional views in courtship. A little romance never hurt.

I don't think it's right for the guy to continue paying everything. Even when i was a student and dated a guy working in a well paid job who wanted to pay for everything and 'spoil me' as he put it
I still bought him a drink just to show some respect and as a thank you.

TheBeardedLady · 30-04-2015 06:44AM

Men pay for dates here too at the beginning of a relationship. You'd have a few exceptions but that'd generally be the rule for the majority from what I gather but Spain is still a traditional country.

I've always gone halves, personally. Can't remember if I've ever let a guy pay for a date. He might've paid for dinner and I'd get the drinks after or something. In my mind I've done that because it's fair, because I wanted things to feel equal and no one feeling they're owed or owe anything and because I've almost exclusively gone out with and dated broke fellas (except one very rich guy who I still insisted on going halves with).

Penny Tration · 30-04-2015 07:30AM

I generally offer to pay, or pay half.

Usually on the first date or two, the guy has never let me, so I make sure to tell him in advance of the third date that I'd like to pay, and usually then they're okay with it.

zeffabelli · 30-04-2015 07:32AM

Those are the manners in North Anerica, it's considered only a scumbag of a man does not do this.

El_Duderino 09 · 30-04-2015 08:21AM

Did you ask if she's an escort? That sounds a lot like how relationships with escorts work.

El_Duderino 09 · 30-04-2015 08:33AM

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

If she puts out on the first date I'll pay, if not, Fcuk off and pay for your own ya Fridget biaaatch!

This is probably a flippant comment but what is the guy paying for from the woman's perspective? Is he paying for her time? Is it a bribe to encourage her to give him a chance?

Unfortunately some fellas will think they're buying immunity from her saying 'no' when it comes to sex.

Feminism is about equality in relationships and expecting one side to pay for all the first dates is a serious risk to equality if the relationship continues. I'd do it once for the sake of tradition but I'd have much more respect for a woman who has ambition and wants to pay her way in the world.

Penny Tration · 30-04-2015 08:44AM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

This is probably a flippant comment but what is the guy paying for from the woman's perspective? Is he paying for her time? Is it a bribe to encourage her to give him a chance?

Unfortunately some fellas will think they're buying immunity from her saying 'no' when it comes to sex.

Feminism is about equality in relationships and expecting one side to pay for all the first dates is a serious risk to equality if the relationship continues. I'd do it once for the sake of tradition but I'd have much more respect for a woman who has ambition and wants to pay her way in the world.

A lot of men seem to be affronted by a woman wanting to pay her way early on, from what I've experienced. I've only met maybe 2 men who were cool with me paying my way. The rest just got offended, saying it's their job to pay as a man.

That said, I also know a hell of a lot of women who refuse to pay for dates at all. Princesses.

El_Duderino 09 · 30-04-2015 10:02AM

Jenny Thalia wrote: »

A lot of men seem to be affronted by a woman wanting to pay her way early on, from what I've experienced. I've only met maybe 2 men who were cool with me paying my way. The rest just got offended, saying it's their job to pay as a man.

That said, I also know a hell of a lot of women who refuse to pay for dates at all. Princesses.

And what if the woman would prefer another restaurant? Can she simply say 'I don't like this placr' if someone else is paying? Being offended by a woman wanting to pay her way sounds like controlling behaviour from the guy.

I suppose it made sense in a world where women couldn't have careers but now it's just an unhelpful tradition.

Early Date Etiquette

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