Re: Adolf Hitler

28-04-2015 10:23PM #1

Could Hitler's Nazi regime have lasted longer if it had made the Catholic church and the USSR an ally indtead of an enemy?

Cold War Kid · 28-04-2015 10:25PM

Was the catholic church an enemy? I've read of examples of either support or turning-a-blind-eye (as well as resistance of course) when it came to various arms of the Vatican.

irish bloke · 28-04-2015 10:26PM

Pillow thread coming up....

The Diabolical Monocle · 28-04-2015 10:26PM

4512 wrote: »

Could Hitler's Nazi regime have lasted longer if it had made the Catholic church and the USSR an ally indtead of an enemy?

Yes.
That said its a bit of an ask.
Some philosophical changes might be required.

Don't think he'd manage allies but maybe an accord to keep out of each others way.

Think of it this way - you'd get a lot more ass if you simply switched teams, dressed as a sailor and moved to tsan fran.

28-04-2015 10:28PM

Cold War Kid wrote: »

Was the catholic church an enemy? I've read of examples of either support or turning-a-blind-eye (as well as resistance of course) when it came to various arms of the Vatican.

Rome failed to recognise the authority of Hitler which kinda pissed him off and most Catholics were seen as a "hindrance" to the so called progressive nature of white protestants or atheists.

fleet_admiral · 28-04-2015 10:29PM

Its a pity he didnt destroy the Vatican

Cold War Kid · 28-04-2015 10:29PM

4512 wrote: »

Rome failed to recognise the authority of Hitler which kinda pissed him off and most Catholics were seen as a "hindrance" to the so called progressive nature of white protestants or atheists.

Oh right. Thought loads of the nazis (including Hitler) were catholics.

28-04-2015 10:30PM

Don't think he'd manage allies but maybe an accord to keep out of each others way.[/quote]

I meant if Hitler didnt invade Russia but kept trading with the soviets

Amirani · 28-04-2015 10:30PM

If the USSR was actually an ally, and that's a fairly ridiculous and hypothetical if, Germany would not have lost the war.

fleet_admiral · 28-04-2015 10:31PM

Cold War Kid wrote: »

Oh right. Thought loads of the nazis (including Hitler) were catholics.

Thats a terrible thing to say about nazis

EoghanIRL · 28-04-2015 10:31PM

Maybe but the pope would have been führious!

AndonHandon · 28-04-2015 10:33PM

If Hitler grew at a slower pace he could have added more strength before targeting further expansion.

MRnotlob606 · 28-04-2015 10:36PM

fleet_admiral wrote: »

Its a pity he didnt destroy the Vatican

Why ? What would that merit ? Destroying the beautiful Sistine Chapel, St Peter's Basilica, Priceless works of art. Also, many brave members of the clergy like Hugh O' Flaherty,Maximilian Kolpe and even future pope John Paul IIsaved countless lives.

Destroying the Vatican is one of the most senseless almost anti-catholic comments I have seen here.

suicide_circus · 28-04-2015 10:36PM

EoghanIRL wrote: »

Maybe but the pope would have been führious!

Heilarious

Lingua Franca · 28-04-2015 10:39PM

He might have lasted a bit longer but I reckon Stalin would have steamrolled him eventually anyway, ally or no.

gctest50 · 28-04-2015 10:52PM

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

Why ? What would that merit ? Destroying the beautiful Sistine Chapel, St Peter's Basilica, Priceless works of art. Also, many brave members of the clergy like Hugh O' Flaherty,Maximilian Kolpe and even future pope John Paul IIsaved countless lives.

Destroying the Vatican is one of the most senseless almost anti-catholic comments I have seen here.

he probably would/should have executed them all

except they had cake :

http://img.ie/image/C5r

GerB40 · 28-04-2015 10:53PM

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

Why ? What would that merit ? Destroying the beautiful Sistine Chapel, St Peter's Basilica, Priceless works of art. Also, many brave members of the clergy like Hugh O' Flaherty,Maximilian Kolpe and even future pope John Paul IIsaved countless lives.

Destroying the Vatican is one of the most senseless almost anti-catholic comments I have seen here.

I'm very anti catholic church (the church, obviously not catholics themselves) and I fully agree with you. Vatican City is one of the most astonishingly beautiful pieces of art and architecture on the planet. To lose it would be to lose one of mankind's greatest aesthetic wonders. The churches hierarchy is what I hate about the catholic church but their HQ is amazing..

InitiumNovum · 28-04-2015 10:54PM

4512 wrote: »

Could Hitler's Nazi regime have lasted longer if it had made the Catholic church and the USSR an ally indtead of an enemy?

I don't see what the RCC has to do with anything. But Nazi Germany was already a de-facto ally of the USSR at the beginning of WW2, e.g. the Non-Aggression Pact, and they had carved up Eastern Europe between themselves. If Nazi Germany had not invaded the USSR, if they had not entered into an alliance with Italy and Japan, and if they had not declared war on the US, there is a good chance that they would still be around to this day.

dxhound2005 · 28-04-2015 10:56PM

Diego Simeone wrote: »

If the USSR was actually an ally, and that's a fairly ridiculous and hypothetical if, Germany would not have lost the war.

They were both parties to the non agression treaty which lasted for nearly 2 years from August 1939. So the Soviets took no part in fighting the Nazis until Germany broke the treaty. If Germany had stayed out of the Soviet Union who knows what could have happened.

Dyr · 28-04-2015 10:58PM

Hitlers strange obsession with turning russia into germanys back garden screwed him from the start

Maybe he just had plans to lay down decking from poland to the urals I dunno, the germans sure didnt need more lebensraum after they'd taken over the whole of western europe

After he'd kicked the hoop outta russia in autumn 41 he might have had a chance if they'd settled in to defend what they had and left it at that

Dyr · 28-04-2015 11:00PM

And staying pals with japan after they declared war on america probably was'nt a great idea either

dxhound2005 · 28-04-2015 11:03PM

Bambi wrote: »

And staying pals with japan after they declared war on america probably was'nt a great idea either

Russia is still at war with Japan. They never agreed a treaty after 1945, something to do with disputed islands.

FloatingVoter · 28-04-2015 11:06PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Russia is still at war with Japan. They never agreed a treaty after 1945, something to do with disputed islands.

If it's about the 6 counties, they're welcome to them.

28-04-2015 11:07PM

It's odd that the Catholic Church were against Hitler, but loved Mussolini. Isn't he the main reason that Vatican City is, in fact, it's own country?

buried · 28-04-2015 11:17PM

The Vatican helped hundreds, possibly thousands of Nazi fascists escape Europe at the end of the war. Some even went through 'denazification' through baptizm for safe passage out to South America and beyond. Look up the history of Bishop Alois Hudal and Monsignor Krunoslav Draganovic. Who knows who they let out. That mass murdering bastard Adolf Eichmann escaped Europe at the end of the war for instance.

whupdedo · 28-04-2015 11:23PM

Ah, were the nazis really that bad .........?

SaveOurLyric · 28-04-2015 11:35PM

AndonHandon wrote: »

If Hitler grew at a slower pace he could have added more strength before targeting further expansion.

He was not a big eater and was generally, though not exclusively, a vegetarian, and remained slim throughout his life. (Goring, by contrast was much more successful with expansion).

Capt'n Midnight · 28-04-2015 11:38PM

Diego Simeone wrote: »

If the USSR was actually an ally, and that's a fairly ridiculous and hypothetical if, Germany would not have lost the war.

Well, they were allies until December 1940.

Before then it was very confusing. The UK was helping Finland fight Russia. Then the Finn's allied with Germany. The Baltic states were taken over by Russia. You have to remember that Poland helped dismember Czechoslovakia. And then of course the Russians invaded Poland shortly after Germany did. And all this not too long after the Russians gave the Japanese a bloody nose in Mongolia.

Stalin was said to have said "It's a shame Hitler had to go and attack us. Together, we could really have done some things!".

j80ezgvc3p92xu · 29-04-2015 12:16AM

That's right, the Germans and the Soviet Union were actually allied until 1941 by virtue of the Ribentrop-Molotov pact. During that time, they managed to carve Europe up nicely between each other. Their armies co-operated in the Polish campaign in 1939 and they even held a joint military parade together in Brest Litovsk in October of that year.

The Vatican on the other hand never cooperated with the Nazis, despite what many undereducated dupes will have you believe. Pope Pius XI tore Hitler a new one in his encyclical "Mit Brennender Sorge" (anyone with better German feel free to correct me). He hid thousands of Jews in the Vatican during the war and thousands of Catholic clergy met their end in concentration camps, choosing loyalty to their Church over the Nazis. One of the greatest Catholic saints of all time, Fr. Kolbe, was deliberately starved to death at Auschwitz.

I think Hitler's biggest mistake in the war was fighting too many people at the same time (lucky for us he did not seem to realize that). The German army hammered Britain but never finished the job. Then they helped Mussolini in Africa, again without dealing a knockout blow. Hitler later invaded Russia and declared war on the US after Pearl Harbour. It was only a matter of time really.

tritium · 29-04-2015 12:20AM

Hitler and Stalin weren't actually likely bedfellows. IF they could have stayed out of each others way Hitler could have finished of the rest of Europe but sooner or later one of them was going to turn on the other.

Cold War Kid · 29-04-2015 12:20AM

whupdedo wrote: »

Ah, were the nazis really that bad .........?

Dunno if that's a rhetorical question, but while, overall, yes... there were also individual nazis who did not agree with the horror of what happened ultimately, and signed up in agreement with economic policies and the aim of a happier, more well-off Germany. Don't think genocide was part of the deal at the start.

Re: Adolf Hitler

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