Public sector pay increase

darkpagandeath · 28-04-2015 12:18AM

Jawgap wrote: »

We have high rates of pay in this country in a lot of areas because the cost of living is high. People may be paid less in the UK, but - according to the OECD - household disposable income is higher there then here.

If I was still in the PS I'd happily take a pay cut if somehow my disposable income was going yo increase.

The cost of living is not that high, It certainly does not warrant the exorbitant wage difference. The cost of living to what people are paid is well in favour of high wages in the PS. There is plenty of information about showing this historically. It's a well known fact to be fair.

Jawgap · 28-04-2015 12:23AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

The cost of living is not that high, It certainly does not warrant the exorbitant wage difference. The cost of living to what people are paid is well in favour of high wages in the PS. There is plenty of information about showing this historically. It's a well known fact to be fair.

Ok, if one person is paid more than another, and the first person ends up with less cash in their hand than the second what does that tell you about the taxation and cost of living experienced by the first person?

Plus it's funny how when the OECD issue a report critical of the PS it seized on as being gospel, but when their figures show something else they're minimised :rolleyes:

jcon1913 · 28-04-2015 12:30AM

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Let's not let the fact that a huge portion of public sector workers are on pretty crap pay get in the way of a good rabble!

The public service were paid 20% more than comparatively qualified private sector workers before the pay reductions when all elements were taken into account. ( pensions etc ) After the pay reductions pension levy etc the public service were paid the same as equivalent private sector workers.

Source - John Fitzgerald former head of the governments economic advisers the ESRI

darkpagandeath · 28-04-2015 12:32AM

Jawgap wrote: »

Ok, if one person is paid more than another, and the first person ends up with less cash in their hand than the second what does that tell you about the taxation and cost of living experienced by the first person?

Plus it's funny how when the OECD issue a report critical of the PS it seized on as being gospel, but when their figures show something else they're minimised :rolleyes:

Why was the Troika banging on about PS pay for so long ?

Jawgap · 28-04-2015 12:37AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Why was the Troika banging on about PS pay for so long ?

Because it needed to be reduced......just like SW rates needed to be reduced......taxes needed to be increased (and the tax base broadened)......IW needed to be set up......etc etc

Plus the decision to reduce the public pay bill involved reducing rates of pay - a more efficient way, imo, would've been to reduce headcount and reshape the PS to meet modern demands.

Btw, the troika are gone

scary · 28-04-2015 12:38AM

jcon1913 wrote: »

The public service were paid 20% more than comparatively qualified private sector workers before the pay reductions when all elements were taken into account. ( pensions etc ) After the pay reductions pension levy etc the public service were paid the same as equivalent private sector workers.

Source - John Fitzgerald former head of the governments economic advisers the ESRI

if this is the case why all the arguing?, or do people really want the PS workers to be on lower wages than the private sector?

darkpagandeath · 28-04-2015 12:43AM

scary wrote: »

if this is the case why all the arguing?, or do people really want the PS workers to be on lower wages than the private sector?

They want pay restoration not pay increase in line with inflation and Private sector. And they are not being paid less it said the same. You can guarantee after the restoration they would still be asking for a 2% increase because the private sector is going to do it.

Jawgap · 28-04-2015 12:44AM

jcon1913 wrote: »

The public service were paid 20% more than comparatively qualified private sector workers before the pay reductions when all elements were taken into account. ( pensions etc ) After the pay reductions pension levy etc the public service were paid the same as equivalent private sector workers.

Source - John Fitzgerald former head of the governments economic advisers the ESRI

Not this former public servant - I was netting the same salary as someone with comparable education and experience in private practice. What I wasn't getting was an opportunity to earn bonuses; my health insurance paid for; my professional indemnity insurance paid for; a car; corporate club membership; etc etc

Ok the State shouldn't pay for 'trimmings' but it should pay for indemnity insurance or not insist on tied arrangements for people required to have it.

And out of interest, my employer covering my health and indemnity insurances was the equivalent of a €10k salary bump to me.

scary · 28-04-2015 12:44AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

They want pay restoration not pay increase in line with inflation and Private sector. And they are not being paid less it said the same. You can guarantee after the restoration they would still be asking for a 2% increase because the private sector is going to do it.

and alot of them deserve it

darkpagandeath · 28-04-2015 12:46AM

scary wrote: »

and alot of them deserve it

Who deserves being paid more than the norm ? pay increase in line with inflation and private sector benchmark.

Jawgap · 28-04-2015 12:51AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Who deserves being paid more than the norm ? pay increase in line with inflation and private sector benchmark.

What's that?

What happens if there is no comparator in the private sector?

Who for example, do you compare an EOD officer in the Army to? Or a senior detective in the Guards? Or an A&E nurse?

barneystinson · 28-04-2015 12:55AM

Jawgap wrote: »

What's that?

What happens if there is no comparator in the private sector?

Who for example, do you compare an EOD officer in the Army to? Or a senior detective in the Guards? Or an A&E nurse?

I'd love to be benchmarked to my private sector equivalent, I'd get a lot more than 2% increase - where do I sign up!

darkpagandeath · 28-04-2015 01:14AM

barneystinson wrote: »

I'd love to be benchmarked to my private sector equivalent, I'd get a lot more than 2% increase - where do I sign up!

Yeah lets ignore the data that says that Irish Public service/sector are some of the most highly paid in the EZ/EU If not the world. It's all just begrudgery ....

Sleepy · 28-04-2015 01:17AM

If there are to be increases, what would seem to make sense would be a UK style "Dublin allowance". It seems absurd that a public servant living in a city where the cost of housing is double/triple the cost of what it would be elsewhere in the country earns the same as their rural-based equivalent.

Many PS workers that would be on the pigs back in Mayo/Wexford etc. would probably be struggling on the same pay-grade in Artane or Deansgrange.

(obviously, for some, a decrease of the rural-based PS workers would make more sense but that's hardly going to happen in an election year)

barneystinson · 28-04-2015 01:35AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Yeah lets ignore the data that says that Irish Public service/sector are some of the most highly paid in the EZ/EU If not the world. It's all just begrudgery ....

Where did I say that? PM me and I'll show you exactly what I mean, but I'm not going to identify myself on a public thread.

evolving_doors · 28-04-2015 08:00AM

scary wrote: »

Do we actually have any like for like wage comparisons for the PS and private sector? If I've missed this can someone point me in the right direction.

2009 Cso employment survey is as close as you'll ever get

scary · 28-04-2015 08:22AM

Gebgbegb wrote: »

2009 Cso employment survey is as close as you'll ever get

So other than averages it's all just speculative so.

jcon1913 · 28-04-2015 09:23AM

scary wrote: »

if this is the case why all the arguing?, or do people really want the PS workers to be on lower wages than the private sector?

Nobody wants to beat another sector up financially - but to be equal would be okay dont you think. There is no value attributed to the permanency of public service jobs by the way.

jcon1913 · 28-04-2015 09:25AM

Jawgap wrote: »

Not this former public servant - I was netting the same salary as someone with comparable education and experience in private practice. What I wasn't getting was an opportunity to earn bonuses; my health insurance paid for; my professional indemnity insurance paid for; a car; corporate club membership; etc etc

Ok the State shouldn't pay for 'trimmings' but it should pay for indemnity insurance or not insist on tied arrangements for people required to have it.

And out of interest, my employer covering my health and indemnity insurances was the equivalent of a €10k salary bump to me.

Hard cases make bad law. John Fitzgerald was talking averages.

BTW you could close the door behind you in work on a Friday evening and be sure you had a job to go back to on Monday, a luxury not all private sector workers had over the last few years.

jcon1913 · 28-04-2015 09:26AM

Jawgap wrote: »

What's that?

What happens if there is no comparator in the private sector?

Who for example, do you compare an EOD officer in the Army to? Or a senior detective in the Guards? Or an A&E nurse?

senior detective - senior security employee in Securitas / Group 4 et c etc.

Nurse - private sector nurse

jcon1913 · 28-04-2015 09:28AM

barneystinson wrote: »

I'd love to be benchmarked to my private sector equivalent, I'd get a lot more than 2% increase - where do I sign up!

At your local private employer. Its a free country my friend.

You should apply for a job straight away. With your experience you'd be snapped up in minutes.

jcon1913 · 28-04-2015 09:28AM

scary wrote: »

So other than averages it's all just speculative so.

Average are not speculative.

Riskymove · 28-04-2015 09:29AM

jcon1913 wrote: »

senior detective - senior security employee in Securitas / Group 4 et c etc.

give me a break!

Riskymove · 28-04-2015 09:30AM

jcon1913 wrote: »

Average are not speculative.

correct....they have, however, been picked up and waved around as meaning a lot more than they do.

jcon1913 · 28-04-2015 09:30AM

Riskymove wrote: »

give me a break!

What - you have better comparatives?

jcon1913 · 28-04-2015 09:33AM

Riskymove wrote: »

correct....they have, however, been picked up and waved around as meaning a lot more than they do.

And your alternative is to muddy the water with your own opinion, without any meaningful analysis, or context.

Public service workers were paid 20% more than comparably qualified private sector workers before the public sector pay cuts.

That's a fact from a respected individual in a respected organisation. End of.

Mr. teddywinkles · 28-04-2015 09:33AM

What amazes me is that people think the country is back in the black. Time reverse everything lads. Tax cuts for all!
Did all the the billions upon billions of debt just vanish down a black hole that people on here have been bitchin about for the last 8 year. Magic is it?

JillyQ · 28-04-2015 09:34AM

jcon1913 wrote: »

senior detective - senior security employee in Securitas / Group 4 et c etc.

Nurse - private sector nurse

Sorry you are very wrong to compare a senior detective with a senior employee of a security company there roles are vastly different.

Riskymove · 28-04-2015 09:38AM

jcon1913 wrote: »

What - you have better comparatives?

if you really think a senior employee in a security company does a comparable job to a senior Garda Detective then I can only assume you have little idea what a detective does.

28-04-2015 09:38AM

jcon1913 wrote: »

Public service workers were paid 20% more than comparably qualified private sector workers before the public sector pay cuts.

I don't see the issue (if it is the case, but I think the figures are being massaged to suit an agenda), in a lot of instances they are doing a job that warrants higher pay, of course this will be ignored by the rabble brigade. Also private sector workers in general have much greater opportunities from promotion and wage increases as they gain more experience.

JillyQ wrote: »

Sorry you are very wrong to compare a senior detective with a senior employee of a security company there roles are vastly different.

Its the equivalent of comparing a pilot to a bus driver.

Public sector pay increase

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