How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

Jjiipp79 · 27-04-2015 12:18AM

I will be voting YES

NuMarvel · 27-04-2015 12:26AM

IrishTrajan wrote: »

I won't be voting. This doesn't affect me either way, so I'll let those with an opinion sort it out amongst themselves.

If you're in favour of allowing same sex couples to marry, I hope you'll reconsider. This will be all down to turnout at the end of the day, and every vote counts.

It may not affect you directly right now, but someone you know or you're related to is gay, so this will help them. You may not know they're gay; they may not know yet they're gay, but there are very few people in Ireland that doesn't know someone in the LGBT community.

This ends the party political broadcast

.

PutDownArtist · 27-04-2015 12:27AM

marienbad wrote: »

You do accept that your vote , even if it is only one vote ,it does have an effect, otherwise why the gesture ?

But restore balance where ? If you have a gripe on the internet why not fight it on the internet ?

Where is the balance in the real world where these thing really matter ? On one side you have the Catholic Church and every other religion , Opus Dei Coir, Iona and their American money and seemingly endless access to print radio and tv with their full time campaigners and lobbyists . On the other side you have a raggle taggle gypsy-o army of volunteers ( all with other fulltime jobs) under the umbrella of the Yes campaign dependant on voluntary donations of 5's 10's 20's from the general public.

Where is the balance is the question all right.

You clearly believe there is a possibility of a no vote, which isn't going to happen.

My micro vote is purely about upholding democracy.

I won't be changing my mind because I'm not even against gay marriage. That isn't what MY vote is about.

bodice ripper · 27-04-2015 12:30AM

PutDownArtist wrote:

I won't be changing my mind because I'm not even against gay marriage. That isn't what MY vote is about.

That's the only thing it's about.

PutDownArtist · 27-04-2015 12:35AM

bodice ripper wrote: »

That's the only thing it's about.

In this instance yes. The referendum is basically all about my beliefs and relationship with democracy.

bodice ripper · 27-04-2015 12:38AM

PutDownArtist wrote:

In this instance yes. The referendum is basically all about my beliefs and relationship with democracy.

Amazing there isn't more info to that effect from the government so.

marienbad · 27-04-2015 12:39AM

PutDownArtist wrote: »

You clearly believe there is a possibility of a no vote, which isn't going to happen.

My micro vote is purely about upholding democracy.

I won't be changing my mind because I'm not even against gay marriage. That isn't what MY vote is about.

In a two horse race anything can happen , just look at the two divorce referenda ,miles ahead both times ,ended up we lost one and 10 years later just scraped home by 9114 votes , so yeah I am concerned . Think for a minute of all the poor people stuck in loveless marriages for that extra 10 years .

How do you think you are upholding democracy ? I am genuinely curious

osarusan · 27-04-2015 12:40AM

PutDownArtist wrote: »

In this instance yes. The referendum is basically all about my beliefs and relationship with democracy.

Your relationship with democracy is pretty screwed up if you are going to vote in a way that isn't in accordance with your own beliefs but because you somehow feel it balances out what you see as nasty behaviour from the Yes side, over an issue that you couldn't bothered informing yourself about as it doesn't affect you.

That relationship with democracy isn't anything to be broadcasting.

StewartGriffin · 27-04-2015 12:41AM

Jjiipp79 wrote: »

In will be voting YES

May I ask why?

PutDownArtist · 27-04-2015 12:47AM

osarusan wrote: »

Your relationship with democracy is pretty screwed up if you are going to vote in a way that isn't in accordance with your own beliefs but because you somehow feel it balances out what you see as nasty behaviour from the Yes side, over an issue that you couldn't bothered informing yourself about as it doesn't affect you.

That relationship with democracy isn't anything to be broadcasting.

But I don't need a specific reason to vote either way.

Democracy is fundamentally about choice! My stance is an endorsement of that.

suicide_circus · 27-04-2015 12:47AM

A lad in wotk told us he planned to SOIL his vote.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 27-04-2015 12:53AM

"I'm voting against lowering the age restriction for the presidency, because I personally am over 21. It doesn't affect me, so I'll actively deprive people of opportunities that are afforded to me because I dislike the tone of voice that 35-year-old people have had when they're talking about the relevant issues."

PutDownArtist · 27-04-2015 12:58AM

Isabelle Shy Villain wrote: »

"I'm voting against lowering the age restriction for the presidency, because I personally am over 21. It doesn't affect me, so I'll actively deprive people of opportunities that are afforded to me because I dislike the tone of voice that 35-year-old people have had when they're talking about the relevant issues."

And I fully respect your choice because I'm an advocate of democracy.

That doesn't mean I agree with your choice, but I'm a mature person who is respectful of others' wishes and beliefs, and not prone to hissy fits when individuals have views different from mine.

Boom!

osarusan · 27-04-2015 01:00AM

PutDownArtist wrote: »

That doesn't mean I agree with your choice, but I'm a mature person who is respectful of others' wishes and beliefs, and not prone to hissy fits when individuals have views different from mine.!

Your vote is a hissy fit.

marienbad · 27-04-2015 01:03AM

PutDownArtist wrote: »

But I don't need a specific reason to vote either way.

Democracy is fundamentally about choice! My stance is an endorsement of that.

Democracy is about a hell of a lot more that choice , equal rights for all for one thing . One of the fundamental requirements for a functioning democracy .

How is your stance an endorsement of that ?

mzungu · 27-04-2015 01:04AM

Isabelle Shy Villain wrote: »

"I'm voting against lowering the age restriction for the presidency, because I personally am over 21. It doesn't affect me, so I'll actively deprive people of opportunities that are afforded to me because I dislike the tone of voice that 35-year-old people have had when they're talking about the relevant issues."

Personally I think changing the age to 21 will redefine the presidency, Áras an Uachtaráin will cease to exist (like the house at the end of Carrie) and the country will go to ruin. I'm sure it will somehow effect children rights too, but ill let Iona Institute have a stab at trying to work that one in there. They seem pretty good at this makey uppey lark.

StewartGriffin · 27-04-2015 01:05AM

marienbad wrote: »

Democracy is about a hell of a lot more that choice , equal rights for all for one thing .

Sorry, it's not. It's just a basic voting system where the majority rule.

PutDownArtist · 27-04-2015 01:08AM

marienbad wrote: »

Democracy is about a hell of a lot more that choice , equal rights for all for one thing . One of the fundamental requirements for a functioning democracy .

How is your stance an endorsement of that ?

Look, I have nothing against the LGBLT society whatsoever, but you can't insinuate that every single person who votes no is some bigoted homophobe.

My no vote is to nail down the idea that there is no right or wrong answer. It's the choice that matters.

I will be voting yes in the other referendum because I don't believe in arbitrary age requirements for govt. posts.

Democracy is the winner here.

efb · 27-04-2015 01:12AM

PutDownArtist wrote: »

Look, I have nothing against the LGBLT society whatsoever, but you can't insinuate that every single person who votes no is some bigoted homophobe.

My no vote is to nail down the idea that there is no right or wrong answer. It's the choice that matters.

I will be voting yes in the other referendum because I don't believe in arbitrary age requirements for govt. posts.

Democracy is the winner here.

So you are a contrarian?

marienbad · 27-04-2015 01:14AM

StewartGriffin wrote: »

Sorry, it's not. It's just a basic voting system where the majority rule.

It is a hell of a lot more than that

noun, plural democracies.
1. government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.

2. a state having such a form of government: The United States and Canada are democracies.

3. a state of society characterized by formal equality of rights and privileges.

4. political or social equality; democratic spirit.

5. the common people of a community as distinguished from any privileged class; the common people with respect to their political power.

This is a discussion board so for practical purposes we are all limited to a form of short hand and it is it that mode that I use ( and I assume the other poster also) the word democracy . Not as just as a mathematical counting procedure but the totality of the word - courts, free press, universal suffrage etc

crockholm · 27-04-2015 01:21AM

Zaph wrote: »

I take your point. However if someone posted that they would be voting no because their religion is against homosexuality, or because they personally are uncomfortable with the idea of two men being together, then I'd find it very hard to justify banning them from the site. But in my experience the people who get sitebanned for homophobia tend to be the "two men having sex is disgusting and they really need to learn how their penises should be used" type. Posting downright lies to avoid losing your posting privileges on the site seems rather a strange alternative to telling the truth.

Which takes us snugly back to the question of Veritas.For the posters who might not have a belief in religion,but who find themselves uncomfortable with homosexuality or gay Culture.They don't have the crutch of religious dogma if questioned whysoever they disagree with/disdain homosexuality.

If they say that they are uncomfortable about it,they stay within the rules.If Another poster should ask them why they find it uncomfortable,there are two options 1) honesty-"two men having sex.........should be used", as you admit yourself the poster has now fallen on his sword and banned.

2) dishonesty "I don't know,I just do",weaseling out of it,but survives Another day on boards.

marienbad · 27-04-2015 01:34AM

PutDownArtist wrote: »

Look, I have nothing against the LGBLT society whatsoever, but you can't insinuate that every single person who votes no is some bigoted homophobe.

My no vote is to nail down the idea that there is no right or wrong answer. It's the choice that matters.

I will be voting yes in the other referendum because I don't believe in arbitrary age requirements for govt. posts.

Democracy is the winner here.

I have never called anyone in any of these threads a homophobe , in fact I don't think I have ever used that word , I have told a few posters to fcuk off as it was the only response to the vile bile they were coming out with. So I presume you are using the general you and not the individual you. But as insinuations go I would contend that saying someone is a paedophile is a much worse slur than homophobe and by some order of magnitude . And that and more is constantly being levelled at the LGBT community in this campaign . How do you feel about that ?

I see you are using your political belief system to inform your vote on the age referendum and reaching (imho) the right conclusion. They is nothing wrong with democracy that more democracy won't cure . So it is doubly baffling to see your stance on the equal rights vote . I just can't get my head round it .

Democracy is only the winner when more and more get to share in the fruits of that democracy.

But it is your vote and good luck with it, if the opinion polls begin to close , as they inevitable will , you might review your position.

How would you feel if it was your vote that enabled Jedward to become president but denied Panti Bliss a wedding :eek:

Blahblah2012 · 27-04-2015 01:37AM

Democracy is an ideal.. but is not reality.

As for same sex marriage...that is exactly what it needs to be defined as.

FG, SF..and the rest...looking to buy votes....

And as for the justice system...For as long they continue to treat fathers like shïte. ..there should only be one attitude towards them

27-04-2015 01:50AM

PutDownArtist wrote: »

you can't insinuate that every single person who votes no is some bigoted homophobe.

No. You can not.

Which is why - if you go over the history of this thread - the most common reaction to someone declaring they will vote no is - wait for it - "Why?"

A question that alas they seem unable to answer.

aloyisious · 27-04-2015 02:00AM

PutDownArtist wrote: »

But I don't need a specific reason to vote either way.

Democracy is fundamentally about choice! My stance is an endorsement of that.

I've been thinking about how to word my point of view on how you seem to decide how to vote on the issues being put to referendum: not needing a specific reason to vote either way - your words (on the issues being put to us - my words). It seem's more like throwing a dart towards a board with the words "YES" and "NO" on it, and the one the dart hit's is the one you'll vote for, rather than looking at what you actually will be voting on and making a determination on what will be good for people.

I believe democracy is about having the freedom of choice to make your own determination on issues, and then making a decision on which to support. It's about a human thing, peoples rights, not something done randomly without consideration or at the orders of the local lord.

Links234 · 27-04-2015 02:02AM

PutDownArtist wrote: »

Look, I have nothing against the LGBLT society whatsoever,

I see what you did there

NuMarvel · 27-04-2015 06:53AM

PutDownArtist wrote: »

Look, I have nothing against the LGBLT society whatsoever, but you can't insinuate that every single person who votes no is some bigoted homophobe.

My no vote is to nail down the idea that there is no right or wrong answer. It's the choice that matters.

I will be voting yes in the other referendum because I don't believe in arbitrary age requirements for govt. posts.

Democracy is the winner here.

Democracy is the winner when you vote, no matter which way you vote, because voting itself is a democratic act.

Whatever one's reasons for voting No, the outcome is that it could mean that gay people are denied equality, and No voters will have contributed to it. With equality for all being the underlying principle of democracy it strikes me as contradictory to vote against equality in the name of democracy.

Deleted User wrote: »

No. You can not.

Which is why - if you go over the history of this thread - the most common reaction to someone declaring they will vote no is - wait for it - "Why?"

A question that alas they seem unable to answer.

Maybe "Why" is really an acronym for "What a Homophobe You are" and nobody told us?

AtomicHorror · 27-04-2015 08:37AM

PutDownArtist wrote: »

Look, I have nothing against the LGBLT society whatsoever, but you can't insinuate that every single person who votes no is some bigoted homophobe.

My no vote is to nail down the idea that there is no right or wrong answer. It's the choice that matters.

I will be voting yes in the other referendum because I don't believe in arbitrary age requirements for govt. posts.

Democracy is the winner here.

So you will happily vote against your beliefs to make a point on one referendum, but on another you'll vote with your beliefs.

Why not make your point by voting against the presidency referendum, and vote with your beliefs on marriage? Or use both referenda to really push your point? What's the basis of the distinction there?

The argument that your vote won't otherwise count in the marriage referendum is nonsense. If you're making a point to defend democracy, you believe in the value of your vote and its potential to trigger change, even when the polls are against you. Using your vote to make a meta point, one which cannot be read by anyone else, is making a mockery of democracy.

If you genuinely believe there is no right or wrong answer, then the democratic response is to abstain.

frostyjacks · 27-04-2015 08:54AM

NuMarvel wrote: »

Democracy is the winner when you vote, no matter which way you vote, because voting itself is a democratic act.

Whatever one's reasons for voting No, the outcome is that it could mean that gay people are denied equality, and No voters will have contributed to it. With equality for all being the underlying principle of democracy it strikes me as contradictory to vote against equality in the name of democracy.

Maybe "Why" is really an acronym for "What a Homophobe You are" and nobody told us?

If I have to choose between protecting the family unit or upsetting a small but noisy subsection of society, I think I'll protect the family.

Ave Sodalis · 27-04-2015 09:05AM

frostyjacks wrote: »

If I have to choose between protecting the family unit or upsetting a small but noisy subsection of society, I think I'll protect the family.

And how will you be protecting the family?

How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

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