Social Housing in Dublin City Centre

anncoates · 26-04-2015 02:33PM

Aard wrote: »

Just how many adults do you think there are who are long term unemployed and living in free/subsidised accommodation in Central Dublin? How much "prime real estate" are they actually occupying? And how much has that really contributed to city centre rent inflation?

Don't pick it apart. It probably all made perfect sense in the snug of Kehoes last night

SpaceTime · 26-04-2015 02:33PM

kneemos wrote: »

Thought the problem with London city property was foreign investors pricing everybody out of the market.
A lot of these properties aren't even rented out,or kept as holiday accommodation. Those that are rented are massively expensive.
Either way your still have the problem of ordinary workers not able to afford city centre accommodation.

London property is being used as a hedge fund as people flee Russian investments. I'm actually really annoyed at what's happening on London. It's always been a very real city with actual communities. They're all being squeezed out.

London risks being nothing other than a hollow shell of its former self. Paris did this in the 1970s and it's absolutely wrecked as a result - insanely expensive former working class / artisan communities occupied by investors and modem ghettos in the suburbs

The Paris riots and London riots didn't just happen because people were bored hooligans as the press at the time tended to suggest. These cities are broken and that's very definitely the trajectory Dublin is on.

Cities and towns are like living organisms - if you unbalance them they can suddenly start throwing up, get sick and die.

Penny Tration · 26-04-2015 02:34PM

Just a little Samba wrote: »

The parts of Dublin that are like ghettos now, Coolock, Tallaght, Finglas, Ballymum etc, were created by exactly the same process you want to repeat now.

People were moved out of the city centre into housing estates with no amenities of supports.

It's a stupid idea that we tried already and failed spectacularly.

None of those areas are like ghettos.

Seriously, people comparing them to a ghetto have no clue what a ghetto is actually like.

SpaceTime · 26-04-2015 02:36PM

Jenny Thalia wrote: »

None of those areas are like ghettos.

Seriously, people comparing them to a ghetto have no clue what a ghetto is actually like.

They're not extreme ghettos like Latin American ghettos but there very much the modern Western European definition of a ghetto in the sense of French HLMs and British Sink Estates.

They were poorly designed, lack the physical facilities and architecture people need to build communities etc etc

Tallaght was by far the most extreme example of this - they just built houses and more houses and never thought about how people would get to and from them, what they'd do, where they'd shop etc etc

Just a little Samba · 26-04-2015 02:36PM

Jenny Thalia wrote: »

None of those areas are like ghettos.

Seriously, people comparing them to a ghetto have no clue what a ghetto is actually like.

I've a fair idea what a ghetto looks like, given that I live and work in the global south for a good chunk of every year.

I didn't pick the term ghetto, the OP did, I was using his terms of reference to point out the flaw in his "logic".

Kermit.de.frog · 26-04-2015 02:36PM

SpaceTime wrote: »

London property is being used as a hedge fund as people flee Russian investments. I'm actually really annoyed at what's happening on London.

I'm really annoyed at the scumbag and junkie infestation in Dublin City Center, the aggressive begging and feral children that have the run of the place.

I guess you will tell me this has nothing whatsoever to do with the social housing in the city center.

Give me London any day.

"Desirable" as someone else put it.

qwerty1991 · 26-04-2015 02:38PM

Just a little Samba wrote: »

I've a fair idea what a ghetto looks like, given that I live and work in the global south for a good chunk of every year.

I didn't pick the term ghetto, the OP did, I was using his terms of reference to point out the flaw in his "logic".

OP here, I also didn't pick the word ghetto, other posters did.

Apparently by having more social housing outside the city centre among private housing in areas that are commutable to Dublin will create ghettos

Aard · 26-04-2015 02:40PM

Good luck finding cheap rent in London! 800 pounds for a flatshare in Peckham.

pmasterson95 · 26-04-2015 02:41PM

Aard wrote: »

Good luck finding cheap rent in London! 800 pounds for a flatshare in Peckham.

But the class of neighbour is faaaaaar superior so that like totally justifies the rent

Just a little Samba · 26-04-2015 02:42PM

qwerty1991 wrote: »

OP here, I also didn't pick the word ghetto, other posters did.

Apparently by having more social housing outside the city centre among private housing in areas that are commutable to Dublin will create ghettos

That's not what you said though.

You said "moved them out of the city centre" which is basically what happened in ballymum, Tallaght etc. You never said "build new mixed housing estates with private and social housing, good amenities, transport links and support services". You just put forward an argument about removing a "problem" to make life easier for yourself.

SpaceTime · 26-04-2015 02:42PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I'm really annoyed at the scumbag and junkie infestation in Dublin City Center, the aggressive begging and feral children that have the run of the place.

I guess you will tell me this has nothing whatsoever to do with the social housing in the city center.

Give me London any day.

"Desirable" as someone else put it.

That's being caused by a complete failure of the government and the judicial system to deal with drug addiction. It's not being caused by social housing anymore than its being caused by meteorites.

Dublin has a massive drug problem, yet our government won't put significant resources into dealing with it. It's a problem that's causing more deaths than terrorism yet, it's not being fixed.

It needs harsher policing and dealing with high end dealers to decapitate the supply chain - that's not happening as the Gardai are not resourced.

At the bottom level the addicts need compulsory treatment - an option of something like - treatment programme or a very harsh prison sentence.

Likewise where petty crime is drugs driven, same approach needs to be taken or it's just rinse and repeat.

Drug addiction is largely driven by a legacy of late 20th century total destitution in Dublin City Centre not by social housing.

The Irish Government has a long legacy of being very bad at dealing with social problems and generally being more concerned with staying out of the way of the church so that it could inhabit all areas of social policy and implementation of those policies lesson to horrors like the Magdalene laundries and industrial schools. We've a bit of a vacuum or reaction to that now I think. Where he state is terrified to do anything about social issues and is terrified of the concept of youth dentition centres because it made such an extreme mess of this in the 20th century... I don't think the state actually trusts itself to run a youth justice system because of the recent past...

We haven't got a very competent governmental system when it comes to this.

Kermit.de.frog · 26-04-2015 02:47PM

SpaceTime wrote: »

That's being caused by a complete failure of the government

It's being caused by the complete failure of the person. Stop laying the blame at the door of someone else.

Personal responsibility.

We could also do with moving all the methadone clinics out to some abandoned industrial estate as well but that's for another thread.

pmasterson95 · 26-04-2015 02:47PM

SpaceTime wrote: »

That's being caused by a complete failure of the government and the judicial system to deal with drug addiction. It's not being caused by social housing anymore than its being caused by meteorites.

Dublin has a massive drug problem, yet our government won't put significant resources into dealing with it. It's a problem that's causing more deaths than terrorism yet, it's not being fixed.

It needs harsher policing and dealing with high end dealers to decapitate the supply chain - that's not happening as the Gardai are not resourced.

At the bottom level the addicts need compulsory treatment - an option of something like - treatment programme or a very harsh prison sentence.

Likewise where petty crime is drugs driven, same approach needs to be taken or it's just rinse and repeat.

Drug addiction is largely driven by a legacy of late 20th century total destitution in Dublin City Centre not by social housing.

While thats an excellent point the alternative that he prefers is to just dump them out of the county (dunno where to he never said) and then allow Dublin be beautiful sure why fix the problem when ya can move it away.
:pac:

As the above posts says

just move all that nasty stuff outta Dublin and that solves the problem!

qwerty1991 · 26-04-2015 02:49PM

Just a little Samba wrote: »

That's not what you said though.

You said "moved them out of the city centre" which is basically what happened in ballymum, Tallaght etc. You never said "build new mixed housing estates with private and social housing, good amenities, transport links and support services". You just put forward an argument about removing a "problem" to make life easier for yourself.

No, as I stated earlier it doesnt make my life any easier, I do not need accommodation which I sated earlier so you are putting words into my mouth. I also said earlier ''I dont understand how spreading social housing across such a broad area of bordering counties and towns would create ghettos, would it not do the opposite, if lets say 30% of housing in one estate was social and the other 70% is private?'' So I did say about mixed housing earlier in the thread, not just now!?!?

And yes I agree that this should be in conjunction with less social housing in the city centre. Specifically less social city centre housing for people who have no intention of working. I agree completely there should be government assistance for accommodation for people struggling to get by due to low wages, a recent redundancy etc.

But I really do not understand why some people think it is their right to live in the most desirable area in the country (just going by demand for housing) if they have not worked and are not working and will not work yet the tax payers funding this lifestyle cannot find anywhere in that area to live?

I understand there is a drastic need generally for more housing but I just find that situation inherently unfair.

SpaceTime · 26-04-2015 02:50PM

pmasterson95 wrote: »

While thats an excellent point the alternative that he prefers is to just dump them out of the county (dunno where to he never said) and then allow Dublin be beautiful sure why fix the problem when ya can move it away.
:pacman:

That's exactly why London is drug free - they're in Estates in Essex and other places Borris Johnson and the Billingdon Club will never set foot into.

pmasterson95 · 26-04-2015 02:51PM

SpaceTime wrote: »

That's exactly why London is drug free - they're in Estates in Essex and other places Borris Johnson and the Billingdon Club will never set foot into.

And thats why London is such a perfect Utopia

the upper class dont have too see those common peasants.

anncoates · 26-04-2015 02:53PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I'm really annoyed at the scumbag and junkie infestation in Dublin City.

One would never have guessed

SpaceTime · 26-04-2015 02:53PM

pmasterson95 wrote: »

And thats why London is such a perfect Utopia

Well if you call living in a hovel and paying £2000 a month for the privilege a utopia.

Not to mention having public transport fees that are only just competitive with taxi fares etc etc

AndonHandon · 26-04-2015 02:54PM

I walk past dog-crap infested footpaths next to social housing while apartments being rented at €800 per person stand near by and think that gentrification would work better if the social housing just got wiped clean. As a society we need to encourage people to contribute so when I see social housing in such a prime location in the city I get angry; I have been working so hard and paying quite a lot of taxes since I was 16 and I see my taxes being handed out to slobs right before my own eyes. It's not fair.

Kermit.de.frog · 26-04-2015 02:58PM

AndonHandon wrote: »

As a society we need to encourage people to contribute so when I see social housing in such a prime location in the city I get angry

The sight of a howiyeah in PJ's on a sunny work day with a double buggy and a couple more hanging out of them is not a rare sight in these prime locations.

There is indeed something wrong.

pablo128 · 26-04-2015 03:02PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

If you owned you would think differently.

Do you own your own home, or have a mortgage on your own home?

AndonHandon · 26-04-2015 03:05PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The sight of a howiyeah in PJ's on a sunny work day with a double buggy and a couple more hanging out of them is not a rare sight in these prime locations.

There is indeed something wrong.

"Howiyeah in PJs on a sunny work day";

Gosh I lolled at that!

Aard · 26-04-2015 03:13PM

Borrowing from a line used to teach a simple man: "These poor people are undesirable neighbours, but those poor people are faaar awaaay."

The joys of exporting a perceived problem.

LDN_Irish · 26-04-2015 03:32PM

Aard wrote: »

Good luck finding cheap rent in London! 800 pounds for a flatshare in Peckham.

And craic like this still almost routine.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-32412542

You can pay 1300 GBP for a 3 bed I'm Catford and that's what some people on here think is progress.

26-04-2015 03:45PM

Oi! Don't be dissing Peckham.

FFS <said in my perfect Peckham accent>

LDN_Irish · 26-04-2015 03:47PM

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Oi! Don't be dissing Peckham.

FFS <said in my perfect Peckham accent>

Oi no disrespek star ya get me. Man's likes pecknarm it's just dat man's has to be careful when mans passes through. Ya get me fam.

That's how the white people there talk.

swimming in a sea · 26-04-2015 03:49PM

Just a little Samba wrote: »

The parts of Dublin that are like ghettos now, Coolock, Tallaght, Finglas, Ballymum etc, were created by exactly the same process you want to repeat now.

People were moved out of the city centre into housing estates with no amenities of supports.

It's a stupid idea that we tried already and failed spectacularly.

Not all the wasters were moved, that was the problem. Finish the job and the north inner city would be booming in no time.

As for the comments on London, I don't think they are that relevant as Boris and his pals have moved out the wasters to make room for the super rich and dodgy foreign money not for working Londoners.

Gatling · 26-04-2015 03:51PM

The funny thing here will be the same people wanting social housing moved out of the city centre ,
Will be the same ones moaning they can't find houses to raise families in when the time comes ,and it won't be fair people on social housing will have nice places to live while the moaners will be crying there stuck in city centre flats

26-04-2015 03:53PM

Nobody from Peckam (phonetically spelt) has ever pronounced it Peck Narm!

You've been getting your crack from a house in Camberwell if you're speaking like that

LDN_Irish · 26-04-2015 03:55PM

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Nobody from Peckam (phonetically spelt) has ever pronounced it Peck Narm!

You've been getting your crack from a house in Camberwell if you're speaking like that

Haha, you must not have been back since 2003. They all call it that now.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Pecknarm

Edit: love the way the UDer has spelt it Vietnarm too.

Social Housing in Dublin City Centre

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