Social Housing in Dublin City Centre

qwerty1991 · 26-04-2015 01:18PM #1

Hey all,

My friends and I got into a rather drunken argument last night in the pub after seeing an article about the housing crises in Dublin, and would love to see the general consensus.:D

Basically it came down to: Would the government not be better to rent social housing in the likes of Dublin city center to tax paying citizens desperate for accommodation, and relocate this social housing to nice suburbs in Meath, Louth, Kildare etc. where it is far cheaper. The residents can use public transport to go to the City center if they need anything from there.

Basically me and 2 other friends think it is awful that the rents are so extortionate in Dublin city center and argued:

People are having to pay ridiculous rents around Dublin due to the housing shortage. People are also having to live ages away as they cannot get city center accommodation and spend up to 2 hours getting in every morning and up to 2 hours getting home. On top of working full time, it is exhausting. Most jobs are in big cities, so people from the likes of Clare/ Roscommon, anywhere outside Dublin/Cork/Limerick etc are having to move hours away from home in order to get a job. So people arguing that they need a rent allowance/ social house in the city center to be near family or friends is wholly unfair as most people have to leave their friends or family to work. Why is there such an issue about people in Dublin City center in social housing/ getting rent allowance being relocated to the likes of Meath or Kildare. We keep seeing arguments about family and supports being in the city center but the majority of people paying private rents have to leave these too. It isn't moving hundreds of miles away!

The three on the other side argued that

If people grew up in an area, then they should not have to be forced to move to a different county just because they were going through rough times and had government assistance.

People move to Dublin and know of the housing shortage, it is unfair to move people from their homes just because these young professionals are moving up from all over the country and have more money to pay the rent.

I dunno, it seems like a silly argument but I would love some opinions while enjoying (not) my hangover!:pac::pac:

PS: I know people on rent allowance etc can also be working, I am talking about people not working living in social housing/ rent allowance!

Penny Tration · 26-04-2015 01:19PM

Yes, let's move people who need state funded accommodation to specific cheap areas, so workers can move to the capital. That won't create a ghetto at all

tomwaterford · 26-04-2015 01:23PM

Wasn't there a church sponsored scheme doing something similar with at times spectacularly bad results???
Rural resettlement or something like that

Bad idea op.....all its doing is move the problem around....you'll end up like a lot of London a city centre with very few old or poor people around with little in way of community

qwerty1991 · 26-04-2015 01:24PM

Jenny Thalia wrote: »

Yes, let's move people who need state funded accommodation to specific cheap areas, so workers can move to the capital. That won't create a ghetto at all

Parts of Dublin are Ghetto like as it is?

I am not talking about moving everyone into one estate in a small town but spreading the social housing out around bordering areas.

I personally think it is unfair that someone working has to spend hours getting to and from work as there is no city center accommodation.

edword · 26-04-2015 01:25PM

Jenny Thalia wrote: »

Yes, let's move people who need state funded accommodation to specific cheap areas, so workers can move to the capital. That won't create a ghetto at all

we need to start looking at the borders, if we were to reclassify some of the commuter towns in kildare, meath etc. to dublin then we would bringing in the additional housing that dublin needs and that would go a long way to solving things. but the fat cats in charge dont want that to happen for personal reasons.

tomwaterford · 26-04-2015 01:25PM

qwerty1991 wrote: »

Parts of Dublin are Ghetto like as it is?

I am not talking about moving everyone into one estate in a small town but spreading the social housing out around bordering areas.

I personally think it is unfair that someone working has to spend hours getting to and from work as there is no city center accommodation.

So fcuk people out of there homes and communities just so you can get to work easier??

Penny Tration · 26-04-2015 01:26PM

qwerty1991 wrote: »

Parts of Dublin are Ghetto like as it is?

I am not talking about moving everyone into one estate in a small town but spreading the social housing out around bordering areas.

I personally think it is unfair that someone working has to spend hours getting to and from work as there is no city center accommodation.

If you really believe that parts of Dublin are ghetto like, you need to broaden your horizons.

Someone who spends hours getting to and from work is doing that by choice. I live in Dublin and spend 4 hours a day commuting still. And it's a choice.

LDN_Irish · 26-04-2015 01:27PM

qwerty1991 wrote: »

Parts of Dublin are Ghetto like as it is?

I am not talking about moving everyone into one estate in a small town but spreading the social housing out around bordering areas.

I personally think it is unfair that someone working has to spend hours getting to and from work as there is no city center accommodation.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banlieue

26-04-2015 01:28PM

Worked out well for Ballymun in the 60's OP didn't it?

One eyed Jack · 26-04-2015 01:30PM

qwerty1991 wrote: »

Basically it came down to: Would the government not be better to rent social housing in the likes of Dublin city center to tax paying citizens desperate for accommodation, and relocate this social housing to nice suburbs in Meath, Louth, Kildare etc. where it is far cheaper. The residents can use public transport to go to the City center if they need anything from there.

...

PS: I know people on rent allowance etc can also be working, I am talking about people not working living in social housing/ rent allowance!

They tried it already OP - "Regeneration" they called it.

It's been a disaster.

Aard · 26-04-2015 01:30PM

People were moved "out of the city" to places like Ballymun and Coolock. Not exactly success stories. The answer is to build more housing in the centre. Or improve transport infrastructure so that commuting times are reduced. Social housing and market rate housing can exist side by side.

DocQismyJesus · 26-04-2015 01:30PM

tomwaterford wrote: »

So fcuk people out of there homes and communities just so you can get to work easier??

Don't think OP is saying that- maybe questioning why generations of non working families continue to be given the most prime real estate in Ireland for free.

I'm 100 percent for social housing but the idea that anyone has a "right" to live in the city centre for generations while the tax payer picks up the tab is ludicrous.

IMO planning social housing needs to be done holistically with the needs of the whole community in mind ergo I can see the OPs point

qwerty1991 · 26-04-2015 01:31PM

tomwaterford wrote: »

So fcuk people out of there homes and communities just so you can get to work easier??

No that is not what I mean. I mean from here on for example, if someone is making a fresh application for a house or whatever, it shouldn't be in the city center but in bordering areas.

If it comes across as me meaning kicking people out of their homes, I dont mean that so apologies. But there is no need to come across so defensive. I mean that perhaps any new social welfare/rent allowance accommodation that comes available in city centre should be given to people working and in desperate need to rent privately.

This would only work if people who needed social welfare/ rent allowance housing were given housing in bordering areas.

Kermit.de.frog · 26-04-2015 01:33PM

Aard wrote: »

Social housing and market rate housing can exist side by side.

If you had the choice would you have neighbors in social housing next door to you?

I doubt it.

tomwaterford · 26-04-2015 01:34PM

qwerty1991 wrote: »

No that is not what I mean. I mean from here on for example, if someone is making a fresh application for a house or whatever, it shouldn't be in the city center but in bordering areas.

If it comes across as me meaning kicking people out of their homes, I dont mean that so apologies. But there is no need to come across so defensive. I mean that perhaps any new social welfare/rent allowance accommodation that comes available in city centre should be given to people working and in desperate need to rent privately.

This would only work if people who needed social welfare/ rent allowance housing were given housing in bordering areas.

So give over social housing to those that can afford housing instead???

Aard · 26-04-2015 01:36PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

If you had the choice would you have neighbors in social housing next door to you?

I doubt it.

I have social housing neighbours and I'm fine with it.

Kermit.de.frog · 26-04-2015 01:39PM

Aard wrote: »

I have social housing neighbours and I'm fine with it.

Despite the trouble and the impact on the value of your property and the inherent unfairness of someone getting a house similar to yours for almost nothing?

I don't believe you. I think you talk nice in public but in private the vast majority of owners or mortgage holders and yourself would not want social housing on their estate for very good reason.

tomwaterford · 26-04-2015 01:40PM

Aard wrote: »

I have social housing neighbours and I'm fine with it.

Plenty of good people and nice honest people have/come from social housing

To dismiss them for that is wrong

The Diabolical Monocle · 26-04-2015 01:40PM

tomwaterford wrote: »

So fcuk people out of there homes and communities just so you can get to work easier??

Yes. Damn straight.

Its not their home, its the states.

Wheres the cries of humanity for the poor working soul who has to travel from the suburbs every morning. I don't see any hearts bleeding for him/her.

The only real argument against the logic of an equal market for city center housing is ... 'oh but the community' .... aka 'but I like having great convenience at no expense'.

Just a little Samba · 26-04-2015 01:40PM

qwerty1991 wrote: »

Parts of Dublin are Ghetto like as it is?

I am not talking about moving everyone into one estate in a small town but spreading the social housing out around bordering areas.

I personally think it is unfair that someone working has to spend hours getting to and from work as there is no city center accommodation.

The parts of Dublin that are like ghettos now, Coolock, Tallaght, Finglas, Ballymum etc, were created by exactly the same process you want to repeat now.

People were moved out of the city centre into housing estates with no amenities of supports.

It's a stupid idea that we tried already and failed spectacularly.

anncoates · 26-04-2015 01:42PM

A lot of people in social housing do have jobs but shur chuck them out of their houses because you and your mates want to be in walking distance of temple bar.

The Diabolical Monocle · 26-04-2015 01:44PM

anncoates wrote: »

A lot of people in social housing do have jobs but shur chuck them out of their houses because you and your mates want to be in walking distance of temple bar.

as do the people in social housing.

eh, community something something.

qwerty1991 · 26-04-2015 01:45PM

tomwaterford wrote: »

So give over social housing to those that can afford housing instead???

What I am trying to get across is as one person stated above, Dublin city center real estate is prime and people are desperately trying to find somewhere to live. I know no one that commutes 4 hours by choice bar one older man who has wife and kids and has chosen not to relocate them.

I dont understand how spreading social housing across such a broad area of bordering counties and towns would create ghettos, would it not do the opposite, if lets say 30% of housing in one estate was social and the other 70% is private?

I just personally dont understand, and my friends last night the same: If there is social housing available in suburbs, that is commutable to Dublin, then why are prime City centre locations being used as social housing when there is a private renting crisis? Why is it a persons right to have social housing in the city centre when there is probably better accommodation available an hour away.

I am not advocating kicking people out of there homes. I am also not advocating creating ghettos, I dont understand how that would happen unless you just shoved all social housing into one or 2 towns which isnt what Im saying.

KomradeBishop · 26-04-2015 01:45PM

If there is a shortage of housing and places to rent, what is the correct solution?
A: Kick the poor in social housing out to border counties, where there are more houses.
B: Mass-repossess indebted homeowners, creating as many new people looking to rent as there are potential buyers.
C: Exterminate all of the above.

Build more houses and places rent (pff..stupid idea, nevermind).

Aard · 26-04-2015 01:45PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Despite the trouble and the impact on the value of your property and the inherent unfairness of someone getting a house similar to yours for almost nothing?

I don't believe you.

What trouble? I've been here over two years and haven't had any trouble, either at home or in the neighbourhood.

No impact on the value of my property -- I rent.

And we obviously have different notions of what's fair. I wouldn't want the life of somebody dependent on social housing -- it's not like they're living the life of Reilly.

anncoates · 26-04-2015 01:46PM

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

as do the people in social housing.

eh, community something something.

Then qualify for social housing and make sure and tell the local authority you won't consider anything outside Dublin 1 and 2 for lifestyle reasons.

Kermit.de.frog · 26-04-2015 01:46PM

anncoates wrote: »

A lot of people in social housing do have jobs but shur chuck them out of their houses because you and your mates want to be in walking distance of temple bar.

They also have the highest levels of idleness, criminality and thuggery but lets not let fact get in the way.

anncoates · 26-04-2015 01:47PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

but lets not let fact get in the way.

It never does, by the looks of it.

Just a little Samba · 26-04-2015 01:47PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

If you had the choice would you have neighbors in social housing next door to you?

I doubt it.

The neighbour blow me is a girl who came out of state care and 18 and into a flat by herself, the neighbour to my right factory worker and his wife and 4 year old who are in a let to buy scheme with the local authroity and the guy to my left bought his house outright form the developers, runs a multi-million euro business and I own my own place. We all get along really well, the rest of the estate is pretty similar, lovely place to live. The girl below me, who is 21 now and doing really well even looks after my apartment while I'm away every winter buy checking in now and then to make sure everything's ok and I do the same when she's away on holidays or whatever.

This place wouldn't be half as good of a community without the social housing in the estate.

Kermit.de.frog · 26-04-2015 01:47PM

Aard wrote: »

No impact on the value of my property -- I rent.

If you owned you would think differently.

tomwaterford · 26-04-2015 01:50PM

qwerty1991 wrote: »

What I am trying to get across is as one person stated above, Dublin city center real estate is prime and people are desperately trying to find somewhere to live. I know no one that commutes 4 hours by choice bar one older man who has wife and kids and has chosen not to relocate them.

I dont understand how spreading social housing across such a broad area of bordering counties and towns would create ghettos, would it not do the opposite, if lets say 30% of housing in one estate was social and the other 70% is private?

I just personally dont understand, and my friends last night the same: If there is social housing available in suburbs, that is commutable to Dublin, then why are prime City centre locations being used as social housing when there is a private renting crisis? Why is it a persons right to have social housing in the city centre when there is probably better accommodation available an hour away.

I am not advocating kicking people out of there homes. I am also not advocating creating ghettos, I dont understand how that would happen unless you just shoved all social housing into one or 2 towns which isnt what Im saying.

You are advocating kicking people out to convenience you (well reads like that anyway)
You are effectively saying get out and live an hour away so as you'll have a shorter commute to work???

Social Housing in Dublin City Centre

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