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How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

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Comments

  • #5432
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Oh - well now, Look at that.
    A nearly 25-year study concluded that children raised in lesbian households were psychologically well-adjusted and had fewer behavioral problems than their peers.
    http://edition.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/06/07/lesbian.children.adjustment/index.html


    Pity it has Nothing to do with the referendum.


  • #5433
    frostyjacks
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭frostyjacks


    Clockwork Owl wrote: »
    My walk to work has been plastered with NO posters on literally every single lamp post, and I honestly cannot fathom how it is legal to do that - much less how it can be illegal to take some of it down. That sheer number of the same two or three posters is not there to inform the electorate. It's just a barrage of crying children and happy babies; it's base emotional blackmail of the lowest kind, and it's frankly disgusting.

    Personally, I find the 'Every child needs a Mammy and a Daddy' rigmarole deeply patronising. The argument is that a mother and father offer different things to a child's development, which ultimately encourages them to grow into a well-rounded individual.

    Sounds nice, right?

    Not so much, when you unpack it. Because what is it exactly that a mother can provide and a father can't? The implication is that the mother is soft and squishy and emotionally available, and she cooks the dinner and nurtures the child and sings them lullabies and soothes them when they get hurt. And the father is STRONG and STOIC and POWERFUL, and he goes to WORK and plays SPORTS and puts up SHELVES.

    Ugh. Ugh, ugh, ugh.

    As a woman, it actually makes me angry that the NO campaign are pushing this sugar-sweet, apron-wearing, gingham-clad stereotype of what a mother 'should' be. Similarly, it's totally dismissive of the possibility that a man can be just as, if not MORE emotionally intelligent than a woman. It's a reduction to outdated gender roles that I honestly feel have no place in modern society.

    ... And that's without even getting into the NO Campaign's dismissive and derogatory treatment of the LGBT community, which is a whooooole other rant of it's own.

    We're a product of our environment. If you deliberately choose to bring up a child without a male/female role model in their life, you're denying them something important. You're putting your wants before their needs.


  • #5434
    Clockwork Owl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 165 ✭✭Clockwork Owl


    frostyjacks wrote: »
    If you deliberately choose to bring up a child without a male/female role model in their life, you're denying them something important.
    Can you define 'something important', please? As exact as possible, if you could. :)

    And I presume that women seeking sperm donors should be legally obliged to bring their man along with them, just in case they're planning on doing something really KERAZY like, uhm, raising a child on their own?


  • #5435
    galljga1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,938 ✭✭✭galljga1


    Clockwork Owl wrote: »
    Can you define 'something important', please? As exact as possible, if you could. :)

    And I presume that women seeking sperm donors should be legally obliged to bring their man along with them, just in case they're planning on doing something really KERAZY like, uhm, raising a child on their own?

    It does not require explanation. It is....er.....um.....something important.


  • #5436
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,705 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    frostyjacks wrote: »
    We're a product of our environment.


    Human beings are much more than that actually. Environmental factors are only one consideration in human development.

    If you deliberately choose to bring up a child without a male/female role model in their life, you're denying them something important.


    Quite right, good thing nobody has ever suggested doing that then.

    You're putting your wants before their needs.


    And voting no in the upcoming referendum would be denying children of parents who are LGBT their needs, for someone else's wants. Funny how that works, isn't it?

    Bruce Jenner revealed himself be transgender recently, he's achieved so much with his life and he is a role model for so many people all over the world. Are you honestly going to suggest that he should be denied the right to a family?


    Bruce Jenner Says He’s Transitioning to a Woman


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  • #5437
    The_Kew_Tour
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,763 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    Did not ever hear the No side thinking Mothers are only in the Kitchen types.

    EVENFLOW



  • #5438
    Clockwork Owl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 165 ✭✭Clockwork Owl


    galljga1 wrote: »
    It does not require explanation. It is....er.....um.....something important.

    I ask only because I'm engaged to a man who was raised by a lesbian couple, and who never met his biological father. The No Campaign seem very certain that this should have had a profound impact on his psyche, but I've not noticed anything yet. I'd just like to know exactly what mental or emotional abnormalities I should be looking out for, because I must have missed something. Please. :)


  • #5439
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    The_Kew_Tour wrote: »
    Did not ever hear the No side thinking Mothers are only in the Kitchen types.

    I haven't heard the No side make any definitive statement. It's all very vague.

    Things 'matter'. Things will be 'redefined'. 'Something' will happen.

    Mothers and fathers bring 'different' things - but what are those 'different' things? Well...um.... you know... Mammy stuff and Daddy stuff....

    What kind of 'stuff'?

    *silence*


  • #5440
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    Clockwork Owl wrote: »
    I ask only because I'm engaged to a man who was raised by a lesbian couple, and who never met his biological father. The No Campaign seem very certain that this should have had a profound impact on his psyche, but I've not noticed anything yet. I'd just like to know exactly what mental or emotional abnormalities I should be looking out for, because I must have missed something. Please. :)

    Good luck getting an answer. Lots of consequences to all of this we're told but no idea what they are.

    Children won't have a mother and father.
    So?
    They need one of each.
    Why?
    Because....reasons

    To add even more confusion a straight person can do whatever they want. When it comes to gay people all of these problems arise when plenty of them are already being done by same sex couples or married opposite sex couple.


  • #5441
    Shrap
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭Shrap


    S.O wrote: »
    Im pointing out in the event of separation by circumstance, the kid still has a father figure in its life, if same sex couples are allowed to adopt or access AHR a kid has no mother or father as it grows up.
    Well spotted batman. And here's where I answered that it doesn't matter. Nor is it anything to do with this referendum.
    If the child never had a "mother/father figure" (although why she/he would need one of each in particular hasn't yet been explained), then the child will not be missing a mother or father figure
    frostyjacks wrote: »
    We're a product of our environment. If you deliberately choose to bring up a child without a male/female role model in their life, you're denying them something important. You're putting your wants before their needs.

    What on earth are you trying to say here? Yes, we're a product of our environment, but what's actually wrong with not having a particular gender among your parents? I'd love to know this because as a single parent who became a single parent in order to protect my children from the other parent's excesses of behaviour, I must be missing something here. Were those excesses of behaviour gender based? If so, then my kids would have been infinitely better off being raised in a same sex relationship.

    Or could it be that with the care, love, attention, respect and education provided by two people of any gender who are parenting properly, children are always put first, with the parent's wants coming a distant second to the children's needs. Your comment stinks of your own wants, tbh.


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  • #5442
    galljga1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,938 ✭✭✭galljga1


    Clockwork Owl wrote: »
    I ask only because I'm engaged to a man who was raised by a lesbian couple, and who never met his biological father. The No Campaign seem very certain that this should have had a profound impact on his psyche, but I've not noticed anything yet. I'd just like to know exactly what mental or emotional abnormalities I should be looking out for, because I must have missed something. Please. :)

    Well you have probably hit the jackpot.
    As pointed out by Bannasidhe, a 25 year survey has concluded that children raised by lesbian couples were psychologically well-adjusted and had fewer behavioral problems than their peers. But this survey was funded by LGBT organisations so it is obviously all lies.
    Best just go on gut instinct and enjoy life.


  • #5443
    20Cent
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Bit of an over reaction to a few posters being pulled down?



    https://twitter.com/PaddyJManning/status/591699621967167489


    https://twitter.com/PaddyJManning/status/591713087226572800


  • #5444
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    shruikan2553 wrote: »
    Good luck getting an answer. Lots of consequences to all of this we're told but no idea what they are.

    Children won't have a mother and father.
    So?
    They need one of each.
    Why?
    Because....reasons

    To add even more confusion a straight person can do whatever they want. When it comes to gay people all of these problems arise when plenty of them are already being done by same sex couples or married opposite sex couple.

    Boys need to be taught to urinate while standing up. This is a difficult skill to master and is traditionally passed on from father to son.
    Boys also need to learn that women get annoyed if the toilet seat is left up post-urination. Mothers are vital in inoculating their sons against this female displeasure.

    Girls need to learn about periods and tampons and icky things like that. Men are forbidden from discussing anything to do with periods and tampons. This topic can only be discussed by a Mother.
    Girls also need to learn that boys have to be watched and intimidated or 'something' could happen. This is Daddy job. He knows all about boys because he was one.


  • #5445
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    I don't think I have seen any links to prove any of the no sides claims. At best you get a link to someone's opinion on the matter which is about as useful as their view on the lotto numbers last week.

    I wonder what happened to that roving gang of gays hunting no campaigners.


  • #5446
    galljga1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,938 ✭✭✭galljga1


    20Cent wrote: »
    Bit of an over reaction to a few posters being pulled down?



    https://twitter.com/PaddyJManning/status/591699621967167489


    https://twitter.com/PaddyJManning/status/591713087226572800

    What do you expect from a pig but a grunt.


  • #5447
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    shruikan2553 wrote: »
    I don't think I have seen any links to prove any of the no sides claims. At best you get a link to someone's opinion on the matter which is about as useful as their view on the lotto numbers last week.

    I wonder what happened to that roving gang of gays hunting no campaigners.


    They are de-fleshing the heads they have taken, and are placing the skulls on the communal trophy rack.


  • #5448
    IngazZagni
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,626 ✭✭✭IngazZagni


    20Cent wrote: »
    Bit of an over reaction to a few posters being pulled down

    It's not. It's completely unnaceptable. They claim they are doing it because they are trying to stop homophobia yet they themselves are anti democratic which is ironic considering it is democracy that will ultimately decide the outcome of this vote.


  • #5449
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,705 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    IngazZagni wrote: »
    It's not. It's completely unnaceptable. They claim they are doing it because they are trying to stop homophobia yet they themselves are anti democratic which is ironic considering it is democracy that will ultimately decide the outcome of this vote.


    You know what's ironic?

    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    Surely you can see that it was never democratic in the first place to deny people in society equal representation and participation in that society, simply on the basis of their sexual orientation?


  • #5450
    IngazZagni
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,626 ✭✭✭IngazZagni


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    You know what's ironic?

    Two wrongs don't make a right. This is the law of the land as it stands and you should be proud to live in a society that is giving people the opportunity to change this.


  • #5451
    frostyjacks
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭frostyjacks


    Clockwork Owl wrote: »
    I ask only because I'm engaged to a man who was raised by a lesbian couple, and who never met his biological father. The No Campaign seem very certain that this should have had a profound impact on his psyche, but I've not noticed anything yet. I'd just like to know exactly what mental or emotional abnormalities I should be looking out for, because I must have missed something. Please. :)

    I bet he doesn't know how to shave, can't change a car tyre, and pees sitting down.


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  • #5452
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    frostyjacks wrote: »
    I bet he doesn't know how to shave, can't change a car tyre, and pees sitting down.

    How much are you willing to wager?


  • #5453
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    IngazZagni wrote: »
    Two wrongs don't make a right. This is the law of the land as it stands and you should be proud to live in a society that is giving people the opportunity to change this.

    Law of the land used to be men couldn't have sex with each other. Was that ok?

    European Court of Human Rights didn't think it was.

    Strange that we have a law saying removal of 'political' posters is illegal but no law saying such posters have to be truthful, not offensive and relevant.

    Why could that be I wonder...
    Who makes these laws anyway?
    Could it be people who are usually responsible for these posters and have a tendency to not be truthful when trying to get elected?
    Surely not...


  • #5454
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Law of the land used to be men couldn't have sex with each other. Was that ok?

    European Court of Human Rights didn't think it was.

    Strange that we have a law saying removal of 'political' posters is illegal but no law saying such posters have to be truthful, not offensive and relevant.

    Why could that be I wonder...
    Who makes these laws anyway?
    Could it be people who are usually responsible for these posters and have a tendency to not be truthful when trying to get elected?
    Surely not...

    Make a poster with 2 men and a child saying "Prevent pedophilia, Vote No" it's ok.
    Take it down and you are anti democracy and breaking laws.

    It is a bit weird. As you said, politicians lie all the time so they wouldn't want to open up anything that could go against them.


  • #5455
    IngazZagni
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,626 ✭✭✭IngazZagni


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Law of the land used to be men couldn't have sex with each other. Was that ok?

    European Court of Human Rights didn't think it was.

    Strange that we have a law saying removal of 'political' posters is illegal but no law saying such posters have to be truthful, not offensive and relevant.

    Why could that be I wonder...
    Who makes these laws anyway?
    Could it be people who are usually responsible for these posters and have a tendency to not be truthful when trying to get elected?
    Surely not...

    You are completely missing the point. Of course it's not okay, in my opinion. Just think of the struggles black people went through in order to get the same rights as white people in the U.S for example. Now it is bizarre to think that society treated black people as second class citizens but back then that was the norm. Now the thought of it would be completely unnaceptable and rightly so.

    The same is happening in Ireland in relation to gay rights. It's not that long ago in this country where it was illegal just to be gay. Now look how far we have come in that very short timeframe. It's a great achievement for an historically very conservative Country. This is what I mean. Western society in general is moving forward in this regard. Of course we still have to hope the people of Ireland share our beliefs and vote next month.


  • #5456
    Maximus Alexander
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    pmasterson95 wrote: »
    You can see here if you dare vote no you are labelled a bigot or religious intolerant nut.

    This sentence genuinely reads to me like "If you dare to get on a bicycle and use it to commute to work you are labelled a cyclist".


  • #5457
    galljga1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,938 ✭✭✭galljga1


    shruikan2553 wrote: »
    Make a poster with 2 men and a child saying "Prevent pedophilia, Vote No" it's ok.
    Take it down and you are anti democracy and breaking laws.

    It is a bit weird. As you said, politicians lie all the time so they wouldn't want to open up anything that could go against them.

    OT: There was a bloke whose name I cannot remember who was up for election on an anti paedophilia ticket. His posters said Stop The Paedophiles.
    Driving by, all your brain could see was this blokes head and the word Paedophile. Nearly crashed the first time I saw it.


  • #5458
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,705 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    IngazZagni wrote: »
    Two wrongs don't make a right.


    You're familiar with the term 'civil disobedience'?

    The posters by the no campaign are tantamount to incitement to hatred and intolerance, and there is nothing wrong with tearing them down as a form of protest. The no campaign should have been prohibited from putting them up in the first place.

    This is the law of the land as it stands and you should be proud to live in a society that is giving people the opportunity to change this.


    I should be proud to live in a society where people are allowed to promote hate speech and discrimination? No, no I'm not actually.

    Discrimination by the State against people who are LGBT, who are as much a part of society as anyone else, is not something that should ever have been put to a popular vote. I'm not proud to live in a society which invalidates the contributions to that society of it's citizens based upon their sexual orientation.


  • #5459
    WoolyJumper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 849 ✭✭✭WoolyJumper


    20Cent wrote: »
    Bit of an over reaction to a few posters being pulled down?



    https://twitter.com/PaddyJManning/status/591699621967167489


    https://twitter.com/PaddyJManning/status/591713087226572800

    I wouldn't expect anything less than dramatic from Padding Manning.

    Surely putting up offensive and misleading posters trying to scare monger people into voting a certain way is dishonest and an attack on democracy?


  • #5460
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    frostyjacks wrote: »
    I bet he doesn't know how to shave, can't change a car tyre, and pees sitting down.

    I love this. Don't know how to shave? Women happen to be expert shavers. Men shave a tiny patch on their face. Women shave just about everything from the neck down.
    I can change a car tyre. Does that make me a man? What's best is I grew up with a single mother so logically, I should only know how to cook and clean and keep a home. My poor brother is awfully confused. I mean, it was just luck that he managed to build an engine. He knows how to cook and clean too. God help him in the real world when he's expected to do manly stuff because he's a man, but he can only do woman stuff because he was raised by a single woman and was therefore locked away from society.


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  • #5461
    osarusan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,861 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    WoolyJumper wrote: »
    Surely putting up offensive and misleading posters trying to scare monger people into voting a certain way is dishonest and an attack on democracy?

    Yeah, there are a few people on this thread arguing (with some justification, in my opinion) how taking down these posters is wrong and anti-democratic.

    I'd like them to comment on the post I've quoted.


This discussion has been closed.
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