Graham Dwyer court case READ FIRST POST BEFORE POSTING

JP Liz V1 · 23-04-2015 04:15PM

Sorry maybe a stupid question but how long is a mandatory life sentence, which is what he got yes

murpho999 · 23-04-2015 04:16PM

brooke 2 wrote: »

For sure! I was totally convinced he was guilty until some ex-gardai of my acquaintance
were saying that he would walk as most of the evidence was circumstantial! The
thought that such a vile creature as GD might be free to do the same to other women
horrified me. The instructions which the excellent Justice Tony Hunt gave the
jury re circumstantial evidence gave me some hope, but, until the jury came in with
the guilty verdict, I had feared it might have gone either way. In this case, the law
served the people very well!!

The case was entirely circumstantial but it was very solid.

Why do people think that circumstantial evidence is weaker?

stickybookmark · 23-04-2015 04:27PM

I rem we were chatting to a (detective) garda friend of my OH's at a christening and he was full sure Dwyer was going to get off becasue there was absolutely nothing linking him to the scene of the crime. No DNA evidence, even that paint analysis of the spade found at the scene didn't match the paint on his garden fence/shed.

ohnonotgmail · 23-04-2015 04:32PM

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Sorry maybe a stupid question but how long is a mandatory life sentence, which is what he got yes

not eligible for parole for the first 7 years. after that the parole board can recommend to the minister for justice that they are released. the minister for justice can ignore the recommendations of the parole board.

JP Liz V1 · 23-04-2015 04:33PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

not eligible for parole for the first 7 years. after that the parole board can recommend to the minister for justice that they are released. the minister for justice can ignore the recommendations of the parole board.

Thanks so what is the complete sentence period 25 years or all of his living life

Stheno · 23-04-2015 04:35PM

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Thanks so what is the complete sentence period 25 years or all of his living life

There is no set limit after the seven years are up

I wonder does the time he spent in prison before conviction count as part of his sentence time?

ohnonotgmail · 23-04-2015 04:35PM

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Thanks so what is the complete sentence period 25 years or all of his living life

after the first 7 years it is whatever the minister decides. there is no limit. the average is around 20 years at present but there are some that have served up to 40 years.

ohnonotgmail · 23-04-2015 04:36PM

Stheno wrote: »

There is no set limit after the seven years are up

I wonder does the time he spent in prison before conviction count as part of his sentence time?

it does.

Vex Willems · 23-04-2015 04:36PM

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Thanks so what is the complete sentence period 25 years or all of his living life

Life is life, if he gets out its on license

Stheno · 23-04-2015 04:37PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

it does.

So he could be applying for parole in five and a half years?

Lollipops23 · 23-04-2015 04:39PM

I've had to watch this case from afar, but my two cents is that, while the internet facilitated him to procure a vulnerable person to take full advantage of- this guy is a lunatic and would have found a way. Who's to say he hadn't already done horrific stuff to people not willing to come forward (prostitutes etc).

I don't believe he went from reading about that kind of stuff to brutally murdering someone in one fell swoop. I think it escalated.

Overall, I just feel so sad for Elaine O'Hara and her family- imagine thinking she'd killed herself, and going through the whole thought process one goes through when you lose a loved one to suicide, only to find she'd been murdered in cold blood.

I also feel sad for O'Dwyer's wife and kids. It has to be horrific to discover all this about someone you loved and lived with for many years.

ohnonotgmail · 23-04-2015 04:40PM

Stheno wrote: »

So he could be applying for parole in five and a half years?

he has been on remand for the last 18 months so imagine so.

bigpink · 23-04-2015 04:40PM

I wonder did the wife know his fetishes.
She didn't see him again after being arrested that morning in the house

Alanstrainor · 23-04-2015 04:50PM

stickybookmark wrote: »

I rem we were chatting to a (detective) garda friend of my OH's at a christening and he was full sure Dwyer was going to get off becasue there was absolutely nothing linking him to the scene of the crime. No DNA evidence, even that paint analysis of the spade found at the scene didn't match the paint on his garden fence/shed.

Had the man in white been on that jury he would have walked. (12 angry men reference....)

I was surprised by the verdict to be honest.

Stheno · 23-04-2015 04:51PM

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Had the man in white been on that jury he would have walked. (12 angry men reference....)

I was surprised by the verdict to be honest.

So was I the way the judge summed up I was sure they would struggle to find him guilty

Frigga_92 · 23-04-2015 05:05PM

stickybookmark wrote: »

In fairness I'd leave that man alone. Who knows how any of us would react if our child did something like that. I don't think the Sunday world should be taking photos of him! I'd imagine as a parent he thinks GD is a suicide risk if absolutely no-one stands by him/visits him. GD will already be enduring possibly never seeing his 2 kids again etc....the father probably thinks someone has to stand by him, bad egg and all that he is

sadie06 wrote: »

I think this partly explains the issue of his father visiting him, and standing by him. That he eventually became a murderer must be extremely shocking to his family, but the part of them that empathises with him is empathising with what in their eyes is a long-troubled soul. A parent will find any scrap of a reason to go on loving their child.

I don't agree with his father being scrutinised by the media for visiting him.

I completely agree, leave Dwyer's family alone and try not to analyse the reasons why they are standing by him, it's something only someone in their position could explain.
I know some people may find this unbelievable but I firmly believe that if my brother murdered somebody, my mother would stand by him 100%. I know some people may think that that is a wild claim to make but I do truly believe that. He has done awful things in his life and she has always glossed over everything. It's hard to explain properly without going into excessive personal detail but I do truly believe that.

I suppose with rags like the Sunday World, we have months of photos of family visiting Dwyer in prison to look forward to when really, they should be just left alone.
I know they are not grieving in the same way as Elaine O'Hara's family but in a way they are grieving the loss of their son and brother in a very shocking manner.
The same can certainly be said for Dwyer's wife and children. I have never seen a photo of his wife or children and I hope I never do, they deserve peace and privacy to try to rebuild their lives.

fryup · 23-04-2015 05:35PM

apologises if this question has been asked already....

but why was there a gap between verdict and sentencing ??

why didn't the judge do it on the day of the verdict??

Stheno · 23-04-2015 05:36PM

fryup wrote: »

apologises if this question has been asked already....

but why was there a gap between verdict and sentencing ??

why didn't the judge do it on the day of the verdict??

Victim impact statement preparation

ohnonotgmail · 23-04-2015 05:37PM

fryup wrote: »

apologises if this question has been asked already....

but why was there a gap between verdict and sentencing ??

why didn't the judge do it on the day of the verdict??

they had to do victim impact statements before sentencing. the judge needs to write his sentencing decision as well.

Tordelback · 23-04-2015 06:55PM

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

In the interests of being clear "middle class professionals" was not a quote from my initial post either, I was not more shocked about this case because of this man's career our background.

Very sorry Whimsical, didn't mean to imply that you had ever said that - using the phrase was more of a general reaction to the endless rhetoric of class surrounding this case, which seems to suggest that 'middle class professionals' are thought to adhere to some higher standard of sexual behaviour than (presumably) whatever 'working class non-professionals' are popularly thought to get up to, and Dwyer now represents a revelation of 'their' true bestial nature.

A very few people, and in this case just one, go terribly nightmarishly wrong in their thinking and behaviour, and that should be the only real lesson of this whole sad story. Not class, not 'men', not 'sexual deviants', just one genuinely bad, twisted person.

Laois_Man · 23-04-2015 07:05PM

sabat wrote: »

When you're in certain situations you have to approach matters with a rational, almost mathematical strategy. Let's say there was about an 80-90% chance of him being found guilty of murder on the basis of the evidence in court-that's an 80-90% chance of getting 20+ years in prison with a very strong probability of never getting out, seeing as these are political decisions. If he pleaded guilty to manslaughter and gave a full account of what happened, he would have a 100% chance of getting out in just 2 or 3 years time, including time already served. I know what I'd do if I found myself in that spot, even if I was totally innocent.
He either got shockingly bad legal advice or was too far up his own hole to take good advice.

Again, I dont agree that the 80-90% probability of him being found guilty was an accurate representation of it without the benefit of hindsight. Many people I spoke to, and who followed the case closely, genuinely thought he was going to walk (even though pretty much everyone considered him guilty). Myself, I genuinely hadn't a clue what to expect given it was, and remains unknown whether or not Elaine O'Hara was stabbed.

Roquentin · 23-04-2015 07:11PM

Laois_Man wrote: »

Again, I dont agree that the 80-90% probability of him being found guilty was an accurate representation of it without the benefit of hindsight. Many people I spoke to, and who followed the case closely, genuinely thought he was going to walk (even though pretty much everyone considered him guilty). Myself, I genuinely hadn't a clue what to expect given it was, and remains unknown whether or not Elaine O'Hara was stabbed.

i think his wifes testimony was key. i think she said she recognized the shovel from the one in their garage. personally i thought he would have been acquitted up to that point. when i heard that i felt the tide turning.

Laois_Man · 23-04-2015 07:19PM

Roquentin wrote: »

i think his wifes testimony was key. i think she said she recognized the shovel from the one in their garage. personally i thought he would have been acquitted up to that point. when i heard that i felt the tide turning.

I thought that was damming too - until the "expert" came along and claimed after analysis, the paint on the shovel was a different paint to that at the Dwyer home.

Also I never understood why there was a shovel in the first place. I don't think the body was ever buried. And why would he have left the shovel there but dispose of everything else?

Roquentin · 23-04-2015 07:23PM

Laois_Man wrote: »

I thought that was damming too - until the "expert" came along and claimed after analysis, the paint on the shovel was a different paint to that at the Dwyer home.

Also I never understood why there was a shovel in the first place. I don't think the body was ever buried. And why would he have left the shovel there but dispose of everything else?

when i was young we used always be borrowing shovels from neighbours to do work. the paint could have come from another persons work.

ohnonotgmail · 23-04-2015 08:06PM

Roquentin wrote: »

when i was young we used always be borrowing shovels from neighbours to do work. the paint could have come from another persons work.

his wife gave evidence that the paint on the shovel was the same as the paint they had used themselves. Hence it was their shovel. the expert discredited this evidence.

Spanish Eyes · 23-04-2015 08:13PM

Some grounds for appeal emerging from information given in the thread!

Del.Monte · 23-04-2015 08:20PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Some grounds for appeal emerging from information given in the thread!

I didn't notice anything new in the thread? There's little doubt that there will be an appeal and I can still see him walking.

Dwarf.Shortage · 23-04-2015 08:39PM

Del.Monte wrote: »

I didn't notice anything new in the thread? There's little doubt that there will be an appeal and I can still see him walking.

I 100% believe he is guilty, I am not completely convinced there is enough evidence to find him so. I think a lot of people would say the same.

tayto lover · 23-04-2015 08:41PM

I believe that when he appeals he will lose his case. Just like Joe O'Reilly did.

Dwarf.Shortage · 23-04-2015 08:48PM

tayto lover wrote: »

I believe that when he appeals he will lose his case. Just like Joe O'Reilly did.

I'd be inclined to say that this case is far more nuanced and intricate so it's more likely his counsel will find something they can use. That may only be because I was 13 at the time of the O'Reilly murder so I can't remember it very well. 100% open to correction if O'Reilly did have a decent appeal.

Graham Dwyer court case *READ FIRST POST BEFORE POSTING*

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Graham Dwyer court case READ FIRST POST BEFORE POSTING