Under 35s, are you taking out Health Insurance?

The_Captain · 21-04-2015 10:12am #1

The scheme is ridiculous. I'm young, healthy, not overweight, I exercise, don't smoke, don't drink heavily, no drugs, no family history of illnesses.

I looked into getting health insurance, €1000 a year! :eek: I could get an absolute basic package that covered only about 3 hospitals and no treatments for €800 pa.

The maths of it doesn't even work.

If I take out HI on my 35th birthday, I can pay €1k a year until I'm 65 where I'll still only pay €1000 every year.

If I wait until I'm 65 to take out HI, I'll pay €1600 a year, but I'll already by 30 grand to the good. I'd have to live to 115 before Lifetime Community Rating actually becomes more profitable than not having insurance as a young person.

Even if I only wait until I'm 50, I'd pay €1300 a year. I'd have to live to 100 before LCR is the better choice.

So what is the point of this scheme? As far as I can tell, the government is basically trying to scaremonger healthy people into giving money to VHI just to pay for pensioners who've smoked 20 a day for the last 40 years.

People are turning away from health insurance because they can't afford it, realistically they either need to offer concessions to younger people to get them to take it up, or else just accept that they need to move to a risk-based rating rather than a flat community rate

Sheep Lover · 21-04-2015 10:13am

Die young seems to be the cheapest option then?

TerrorFirmer · 21-04-2015 10:15am

Most young people don't really need Health Insurance in Ireland as anything likely to acutely affect young people would be treated straight away in the public system.

However any chronic but not life threatening condition, and you're infinitely better off having private insurance.

21-04-2015 10:15am

I've had it more or less since I was born, my mother has always had the whole family under one policy.

Id never be without it either.

zl1whqvjs75cdy · 21-04-2015 10:15am

Government scared of the grave dodgers as they vote in big numbers, therefore they knock the ****e of the younger generation. Politics at its finest.

The_Captain · 21-04-2015 10:17am

Cody Howling Candlestick wrote: »

I've had it more or less since I was born, my mother has always had the whole family under one policy.

That doesn't count in your favour when it comes to loading the charges though. Children and spouses covered by one person's policy are just treated as not having health insurance when it comes to them getting their own coverage

Shenshen · 21-04-2015 10:21am

Yes, always had it and would not be without it.

It's very cheap in Ireland, and though the cover isn't as good as in other countries, it's still better than nothing. You never know when you might need it, which is kind of the point of insurance.

21-04-2015 10:22am

The_Captain wrote: »

That doesn't count in your favour when it comes to loading the charges though. Children and spouses covered by one person's policy are just treated as not having health insurance when it comes to them getting their own coverage

They would be separate policies though just grouped together essentially, not sure if they still are grouped as it was a particular scheme through my fathers employer which may not still be running.

In anycase I have the full history of health insurance, certainly since I turned 18 probably was under a parents name when I was younger.

Frigga_92 · 21-04-2015 10:27am

Well I'm fúcked because my medical problems that cost me the most money are pre-existing so aren't covered and they suck up all my money which means I have nothing left for health insurance to cover anything else :rolleyes:

Miaireland · 21-04-2015 10:29am

I have always had it and to be honest wouldn't be without it. I have only had to use it a fe times but would have been waiting months and in one case years on waiting lists if I did not have it.

Mind you the VHI made it a nightmare to renew this year. I had changed a lot of my details with this renewal including the Bank Account that I wanted to use. They just noted the change in Policy and ignored everything else. It took many emails and phone calls to sort it out.

TerrorFirmer · 21-04-2015 10:31am

One of the Saw movies actually was centered around private health insurance and the lengths the companies go to to wrangle their way out of coughing up. Was surprisingly political for such a franchise.

kjl · 21-04-2015 10:32am

34 and already have it.

Zombienosh · 21-04-2015 10:32am

I dont understand health insurance plans, what they cover/don't, they seem like a load of expensive bollox.

Larbre34 · 21-04-2015 10:33am

At 26 I was healthy but I took out a fairly basic health insurance package in order to build it up prior to having a family. At 34 I needed it. A lot.

Cribbing about it in the fashion the OP is, is like saying "im the best driver in the world, Im never going to have a car accident!"

I had almost €40,000 euro worth of treatment a few years back and I still pay €64 per month as a premium, less than half a weeks shopping.

The way I see it, with the carnage that is the public health system, I would almost go without food before going without some sort of private health cover.

magicmushroom · 21-04-2015 10:35am

No - I had it for a year and then cancelled it.
Got it through work, visited the doctor twice on the year, send in my receipts for reimbursement and was told I wasn't covered for GP visits on the plan I was on?
Work were paying €135 a month...and I wasn't even covered for a poxy GP visit!

So I cancelled it and I now get the €135 in my wages.

Absolute rip off, I've no intention of ever paying for HI again.

WoollyRedHat · 21-04-2015 10:36am

Shouldn't the title read Over 35, if you're talking about the government levied health premiums going up after the April 30th for anyone who hasn't signed up by then therefore making it much more expensive for those in that age bracket to afford private healthcare in the future.

A Primal Nut · 21-04-2015 10:36am

The_Captain wrote: »

The scheme is ridiculous. I'm young, healthy, not overweight, I exercise, don't smoke, don't drink heavily, no drugs, no family history of illnesses.

I looked into getting health insurance, €1000 a year! :eek: I could get an absolute basic package that covered only about 3 hospitals and no treatments for €800 pa.

The maths of it doesn't even work.

If I take out HI on my 35th birthday, I can pay €1k a year until I'm 65 where I'll still only pay €1000 every year.

If I wait until I'm 65 to take out HI, I'll pay €1600 a year, but I'll already by 30 grand to the good. I'd have to live to 115 before Lifetime Community Rating actually becomes more profitable than not having insurance as a young person.

Even if I only wait until I'm 50, I'd pay €1300 a year. I'd have to live to 100 before LCR is the better choice.

So what is the point of this scheme? As far as I can tell, the government is basically trying to scaremonger healthy people into giving money to VHI just to pay for pensioners who've smoked 20 a day for the last 40 years.

People are turning away from health insurance because they can't afford it, realistically they either need to offer concessions to younger people to get them to take it up, or else just accept that they need to move to a risk-based rating rather than a flat community rate

OK fine don't get it. But please don't start moaning when you are stuck on a trolley or have to go on a 2 year waiting list for a live saving operation.

mikom · 21-04-2015 10:37am

A Primal Nut wrote: »

OK fine don't get it. But please don't start moaning when you are stuck on a trolley or have to go on a 2 year waiting list for a live saving operation.

Ah, they will be moaning......... they're sick.

ScumLord · 21-04-2015 10:43am

The_Captain wrote: »

The scheme is ridiculous. I'm young, healthy, not overweight, I exercise, don't smoke, don't drink heavily, no drugs, no family history of illnesses.

Boring. I have health insurance and by jesus I'll make use of it the way I'm going.

So what is the point of this scheme?

Insurance is a way of protecting against large medical bills in the future. Everyone thinks health insurance is stupid up until the point they need it. The last time I was in hospital the guy across from me was in his 50s. He'd been paying into his health insurance for 30 years and that visit was the first time making use of the insurance. Getting into private hospitals is also a huge plus.

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Most young people don't really need Health Insurance in Ireland as anything likely to acutely affect young people would be treated straight away in the public system.

Straight away? You're looking at a year waiting list on things as simple as an MRI. You could die waiting for tests going public.

A young healthy person could live until their 90 and die in their sleep peacefully one night. It's more likely that something is going to pop up and if it's serious you're going to want that health insurance. Most diseases and conditions can at least be managed these days, it's just a matter of how you want them managed.

The_Captain · 21-04-2015 10:49am

Cody Howling Candlestick wrote: »

They would be separate policies though just grouped together essentially, not sure if they still are grouped as it was a particular scheme through my fathers employer which may not still be running.

In anycase I have the full history of health insurance, certainly since I turned 18 probably was under a parents name when I was younger.

According to Don Gallagher of the Health Insurance Authority, that doesn't count at all towards the rating.
Any health insurance you had as a child is immediately ignored when it comes to calculating the rate you'll pay.
Even worse, if your mother was covered by your fathers scheme for 20 years, and he drops dead when she's 55, she'll then have to pay at a rate of 140% because she's never had insurance in her own name.

LostinKildare · 21-04-2015 11:04am

The_Captain wrote: »

According to Don Gallagher of the Health Insurance Authority, that doesn't count at all towards the rating.
Any health insurance you had as a child is immediately ignored when it comes to calculating the rate you'll pay.
Even worse, if your mother was covered by your fathers scheme for 20 years, and he drops dead when she's 55, she'll then have to pay at a rate of 140% because she's never had insurance in her own name.

He was wrong (about the adult dependent, but not the child).

The HIA rowed back on his statement:

“Currently health insurers apply a reduced level of health insurance premium in respect of children and full time dependant students. These periods of cover where reduced health insurance premiums apply, are not taken into account for the purposes of lifetime community rating and the calculation of age related loadings,” the statement said.

However, if a full adult premium “is paid in respect of anyone, including a dependant student, such periods of cover are taken into account for the purposes of Lifetime Community Rating. Similarly in the case of an individual where a full adult premium rate is being paid for them by their spouse, such periods of cover are also taken into account for the purposes of Lifetime Community Rating.”

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/insurance-body-rows-back-on-widowed-surcharge-claim-1.2143977

coffeepls · 21-04-2015 11:06am

Totally agree with everything Scumlord said. I have always had health insurance. It has cost me about €1000 a year or less for as long as I can remember. Since the start of is year, I think they've paid out €20k for my health problems. She who went to the doc with a cough has got cancer.
For me, the most important part of my treatment was diagnosis. You want that to be as fast as is possible, and that's where private health insurance kicks in. You get told that a certain scan will be in two weeks time on the public health, or the next day if you've health insurance. And trust me, that '2 weeks time' was the fastest possible time, I discovered later that it could've been up to 8 weeks. There is a definite 2 tier system.

By the way - prior to my 'cough' I was rarely ill. Don't smoke, rarely drink, love walking, no cholesterol problems, no health problems at all. My colleagues in my job are still gobsmacked that I'm ill at all. You never ever know.

jamesbere · 21-04-2015 11:10am

I'm 29 and took out health insurance last year for the first ever as I was due to get one of my Kidneys removed, Don't want to take a chance down the line and something happens my remaining kidney and have to go public.

smash · 21-04-2015 11:12am

People might be able to afford it if they didn't still have to pay USC... that 'temporary' tax that was introduced and will now never go away.

anncoates · 21-04-2015 11:14am

While it's certainly understandable to gripe about high prices, objecting to the very concept of heath insurance on the grounds that you may not ever get ill is missing the point of insurance a bit.

MrMorooka · 21-04-2015 11:23am

anncoates wrote: »

While it's certainly understandable to gripe about high prices, objecting to the very concept of heath insurance on the grounds that you may not ever get ill is missing the point of insurance a bit.

I object on the grounds that I would rather just have a public health system that worked and didn't necessitate people arranging for private treatment if they want anything effective.

jester77 · 21-04-2015 11:25am

The_Captain wrote: »

The scheme is ridiculous. I'm young, healthy, not overweight, I exercise, don't smoke, don't drink heavily, no drugs, no family history of illnesses.

I looked into getting health insurance, €1000 a year! :eek: I could get an absolute basic package that covered only about 3 hospitals and no treatments for €800 pa.

The maths of it doesn't even work.

If I take out HI on my 35th birthday, I can pay €1k a year until I'm 65 where I'll still only pay €1000 every year.

If I wait until I'm 65 to take out HI, I'll pay €1600 a year, but I'll already by 30 grand to the good. I'd have to live to 115 before Lifetime Community Rating actually becomes more profitable than not having insurance as a young person.

Even if I only wait until I'm 50, I'd pay €1300 a year. I'd have to live to 100 before LCR is the better choice.

So what is the point of this scheme? As far as I can tell, the government is basically trying to scaremonger healthy people into giving money to VHI just to pay for pensioners who've smoked 20 a day for the last 40 years.

People are turning away from health insurance because they can't afford it, realistically they either need to offer concessions to younger people to get them to take it up, or else just accept that they need to move to a risk-based rating rather than a flat community rate

€1000 a year is nothing, I pay that every 2 months for the most basic plan going. And then I have to cover the first €600 a year of medical costs before I can even make any claim.

mickdw · 21-04-2015 11:26am

I'm 36 and have done a reasonable amount of research into insurance plans prior to this deadline.
From what I can see, the cheaper plans are not worth paying for as you will still end up in a public hospital possibly on a trolley like everyone else.
You basically need private hospital cover for it to be worth while. From my research, I am of the opinion that for a young healthy person with no pre existing conditions, the private hospital plans with large excess per admission would be a reasonable way to proceed.
Certainly, if I need an operation, a single 500 euro payment would seem reasonable when it gives full private hospital cover.
These plans seem to be available for 50 per month.

anncoates · 21-04-2015 11:30am

MrMorooka wrote: »

I object on the grounds that I would rather just have a public health system that worked and didn't necessitate people arranging for private treatment if they want anything effective.

I'd love the same public health system but sadly I'm not sure just wanting it will cover the arses of my family and I during my lifetime.

GreatDefector · 21-04-2015 11:32am

Shenshen wrote: »

Yes, always had it and would not be without it.

It's very cheap in Ireland, and though the cover isn't as good as in other countries, it's still better than nothing. You never know when you might need it, which is kind of the point of insurance.

We've a very different definition of cheap....

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 21-04-2015 11:36am

My godfather was diagnosed with blood cancer, about three years ago. He was straight into some private hospital in dublin and had stem cells removed as part of his treatment, he was months in hospital, and thankfully now he's much better, and for the minute, cancer free. If he didn't have that cover he might not be here now so I think its always good to have it.

MrMorooka · 21-04-2015 11:37am

One thing I'm not clear on, is there any reason I can't just wait until the day before I turn 35 and buy the insurance then?

Dravokivich · 21-04-2015 12:04pm

I can't afford it. So now if there's ever a time I would've been able to, or have to, I won't actually be able to afford it.

To Elland Back · 21-04-2015 12:07pm

The_Captain wrote: »

Even worse, if your mother was covered by your fathers scheme for 20 years, and he drops dead when she's 55, she'll then have to pay at a rate of 140% because she's never had insurance in her own name.

Completely wrong

21-04-2015 12:12pm

The_Captain wrote: »

According to Don Gallagher of the Health Insurance Authority, that doesn't count at all towards the rating.
Any health insurance you had as a child is immediately ignored when it comes to calculating the rate you'll pay.
Even worse, if your mother was covered by your fathers scheme for 20 years, and he drops dead when she's 55, she'll then have to pay at a rate of 140% because she's never had insurance in her own name.

I'm 30 which means I've been on my own adult policy for the last 12 years, I dont know anything about it as I don't organise it myself but I know for sure I will very much have a strong rating. Both my parents have individual policies. My mother works in health care she knows how the system works hence why she has ensured our cover never lapsed.

Being insured together under a scheme which gives a discount to family members does not mean people are tacked onto the policy of the main policy holder which you are trying to argue.

MrMorooka wrote: »

One thing I'm not clear on, is there any reason I can't just wait until the day before I turn 35 and buy the insurance then?

Needing it in the meantime? Also when you buy it you usually don't get all the benefits until you have it for a while so its best to get it a build up your time.

kylith · 21-04-2015 12:13pm

Can someone explain to me why in feck we're paying toward a national health service if we're all now being obliged to get private insurance?

Pumpkinseeds · 21-04-2015 12:15pm

The ad really annoys me. They're smiling that they're going to be charged more for health insurance, on what planet does that make sense. Who in the hell would be happy at the thought of another bill or increase in their premium.

Streetwalker · 21-04-2015 12:16pm

Never had it and never will. I pay enough taxes in this country and if I get sick I expect (rightly) to be looked after in the public health system.

Tell me how · 21-04-2015 12:17pm

kylith wrote: »

Can someone explain to me why in feck we're paying toward a national health service if we're all now being obliged to get private insurance?

Because the National Health Service is insufficient, Health Care is expensive and nobody wants to be sick.

Lau2976 · 21-04-2015 12:18pm

I already have it. I've used it a few times. It provides a lot of peace of mind when something comes up. I tend to look at my insurance like an upgrade of the NHS instead of instead of it. I find it takes the sting out if handguns over the money.

To Elland Back · 21-04-2015 12:18pm

Streetwalker wrote: »

Never had it and never will. I pay enough taxes in this country and if I get sick I expect (rightly) to be looked after in the public health system.

And you would trust the current health service to deliver the most appropriate consultants, surgeons and hospitals to provide that when you need it?????

I agree with your point, but it ain't going to happen

davo2001 · 21-04-2015 12:26pm

Streetwalker wrote: »

Never had it and never will. I pay enough taxes in this country and if I get sick I expect (rightly) to be looked after in the public health system.

What you expect and the reality of what you will get are two different things. You can beg and moan all you want but it wont get you up the (long) waiting list.

Streetwalker · 21-04-2015 12:34pm

davo2001 wrote: »

What you expect and the reality of what you will get are two different things. You can beg and moan all you want but it wont get you up the (long) waiting list.

Who said anything about begging and moaning. I'll take what's coming and hopefully come out the other side. Been in twice for operations and found the service fantastic on both occasions. Is there horror stories yes of course but ill take my chances.

LostinKildare · 21-04-2015 1:13pm

jester77 wrote: »

€1000 a year is nothing, I pay that every 2 months for the most basic plan going. And then I have to cover the first €600 a year of medical costs before I can even make any claim.

You pay €6000 a year, with a €600 excess, for "the most basic plan going"? Wow, what plan is that, if you don't mind telling? It sounds like a complete rip off.

mickdw wrote: »

I'm 36 and have done a reasonable amount of research into insurance plans prior to this deadline.
From what I can see, the cheaper plans are not worth paying for as you will still end up in a public hospital possibly on a trolley like everyone else.
You basically need private hospital cover for it to be worth while. From my research, I am of the opinion that for a young healthy person with no pre existing conditions, the private hospital plans with large excess per admission would be a reasonable way to proceed.
Certainly, if I need an operation, a single 500 euro payment would seem reasonable when it gives full private hospital cover.
These plans seem to be available for 50 per month.

100% This is exactly what we chose. €113 a month for 2 adults and a child, with access to all private hospitals, including the high-tech hospitals in Dublin.
The lower cost plans with access to public hospitals only are a waste of money in terms of being seen/treated quickly.

Donadea Leo · 21-04-2015 1:17pm

To Elland Back wrote: »

And you would trust the current health service to deliver the most appropriate consultants, surgeons and hospitals to provide that when you need it?????

I agree with your point, but it ain't going to happen

funny enough whether you re private or public, its the same consultants, surgeons and for anything serious hospitals you ll be seen in. Albeit maybe a bit quicker.

hfallada · 21-04-2015 1:17pm

I have family friends who are nurses. They said just get private health insurance for private mental hospitals. They said public ones are horrific compared to private ones. Its nearly better to have health insurance, as a just in case for mental health issues. Which is something you never actually notice yourself. A person with severe mental health issues, rarely realise they actually have them

Donadea Leo · 21-04-2015 1:27pm

hfallada wrote: »

I have family friends who are nurses. They said just get private health insurance for private mental hospitals. They said public ones are horrific compared to private ones. Its nearly better to have health insurance, as a just in case for mental health issues. Which is something you never actually notice yourself. A person with severe mental health issues, rarely realise they actually have them

you do most policies cover you for 6 to 12 weeks, then you re back into the public system, what makes the public psych wards awful, it ain't the staff, it ain't the patients. They are often overcrowded, understaffed and have people who have very complex needs. Given the nature and effects of severe mental illness, most people who are unfortunate enough to experience it are unlikely to be able to afford health insurance

jester77 · 21-04-2015 3:02pm

LostinKildare wrote: »

You pay €6000 a year, with a €600 excess, for "the most basic plan going"? Wow, what plan is that, if you don't mind telling? It sounds like a complete rip off.

It's actually quite cheap compared to most plans. Here is is before all the mandatory extras are added.

http://www.deutscherring-kranken.de/private-krankenversicherung/esprit.php

smash · 21-04-2015 3:08pm

jester77 wrote: »

€1000 a year is nothing, I pay that every 2 months for the most basic plan going. And then I have to cover the first €600 a year of medical costs before I can even make any claim.

Personally? Or the company you work for?

Valetta · 21-04-2015 3:08pm

kylith wrote: »

Can someone explain to me why in feck we're paying toward a national health service if we're all now being obliged to get private insurance?

No idea where you got that notion from?

it's optional.

Shenshen · 21-04-2015 3:11pm

smash wrote: »

Personally? Or the company you work for?

If his location is correct, he'd pay that personally. German employers don't pay for their employee's health insurance. Some employers have their own in-house insurers, but you would still pay for them.

The money is usally taken out of your pay check and paid to your insurer by your employer, though. You have no choice in the matter, you have to have insurance.

Under 35s, are you taking out Health Insurance?

Will you take out private health insurance next month? 72 votes

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