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Does it bother you more when non-Catholics mock Catholicism?

  • 21-04-2015 01:42AM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,356 ✭✭✭


    Though church attendance has never been lower in the Republic of Ireland among Catholics (it was 30% in 2011, as opposed to 91% in 1973), many people still identify as Catholic, culturally at least.

    84.2% of people identified as Catholic in the 2011 census.

    For those who do identify as lapsed Catholic, atheist or agnostic, do you think there's a difference between someone from a Catholic background mocking Catholicism, or making light of the Catholic church, and someone who doesn't come from that background?

    Take Bill Maher, the controversial comedian and talk show host in America. Maher has always been upfront about being raised Catholic, and coming from an Irish background (he tweeted in 2012 “Watching rerun of [Olympic] opening ceremony at 3am. Despite all the **** they've given my people - the Irish - over the centuries, I still love the Brits”).

    Maher is nevertheless very critical of the Catholic Church today.

    In 2008 he said “If you have a few hundred followers and you let some of them molest children, they call you a cult leader. If you have a billion, they call you ‘Pope.’

    It’s like if you can’t pay your mortgage, you’re a deadbeat, but if you can’t pay a million mortgages, you’re Bear Stearns, and we bail you out. And that’s who the Catholic Church is, the Bear Stearns of organized pedophilia. Too big to fail.”


    Similarly, George Carlin, another American comedian, spoke of his Catholic upbringing many times during his career. In one of his HBO specials, he said

    “But, in the meantime what they [Catholic bishops] ought to be doing is telling these priests who took a vow of chastity to keep their hands off the altar boys! Keep your hands to yourself, Father! You know? When Jesus said "Suffer the little children come unto me", that's not what he was talking about!”

    However, there are many celebrities and comedians who do not come from a Catholic background who haved mocked Catholicisms and the scandals in the Church over the past few years.

    Harry Shearer, who many will know as the voice of many characters on The Simpsons, including Mr Burns, has quipped, more than once, “Jack Benny took a fatherly interest in me – not in the Catholic priest sense of the word”.

    John Landis, who directed Animal House, An American Werewolf in London and Trading Places, was once speaking about The Exorcist. He said, “it takes a basically ludicrous premise – Satan is in the body of this little girl, and somehow the Church, when they're not molesting young boys, will protect us from Satan!”.

    Penn Jillette of Penn and Teller, in their documentary series Bullsh-t, had a joke about how “the Catholic church is in trouble. Priests raping boys will do that”.

    While the content of each of these jokes is somewhat similar, what marks them as different is that Carlin and Maher were both raised Catholic, while Shearer, Landis and Jillette weren't.

    Do you think people who come from a Catholic background have more of a right to mock Catholicism than those who don't come from that background? Or is a joke made from someone from a non-Catholic background no different than a joke made by someone from a Catholic background?

    Does it bother you more when non-Catholics mock Catholicism? 49 votes

    Yes
    0% 0 votes
    No
    100% 49 votes


«13456

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,094 ✭✭✭wretcheddomain


    Rule #1 for AH after 1am - threads should be no longer than 2 sentences.

    You trying to help people sleep or something? Had I made it to the end, I wouldn't be posting here that's for sure.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 491 ✭✭Dozer Dave


    Tldr max 10 words op.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,356 ✭✭✭MakeEmLaugh


    Rule #1 for AH after 1am - threads should be no longer than 2 sentences.

    It's only after 1am if you're on Greenwich Mean Time+1.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Arsemageddon


    Having been forced to listen to all that Catholicism shyte when I was a young fell\a means I couldn't give a flying fvck if people mock it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    Given the amount of ill the catholic church has visited upon society, Magdeline laundaries, babies tossed in a septic tank, covering up child rape, I think the least they can do is take a bit of mockery on the chin


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    Much like Jimmy and Rolf learnt, if you don't want people to mock you, you probably should have thought of that before the molesting and covering it up.

    As someone else mentioned, the mockery is aimed at the organisation itself, not the people who just happened to be baptised.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,115 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    Those examples are largely mocking the institutional dysfunctional and clergy of the RCC rather than having a go at every single Catholic.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    if they didn't cover up so much for the paedos maybe, but they did, so both barrels


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,895 ✭✭✭nokia69


    nope

    don't care

    sticks and stones


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,298 ✭✭✭DareGod


    There is no Santa Clause, there is no Mickey Mouse and there is no God.

    Why can't we just leave it there?

    How much farther along would we be as a species if we finally did. Sigh.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 323 ✭✭emigrate2012


    Sure are busy at the iona "institute" social media department these days.....

    The concept is comedy,no? After hours pal,bar talk/ gallows humor-yup

    Soft skins/humorless/dry suites-NO!

    Gtfo......


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Arsemageddon


    DareGod wrote: »
    There is no Santa Clause, there is no Mickey Mouse and there is no God.

    Why can't we just leave it there?

    How much farther along would we be as a species if we finally did. Sigh.

    In fairness, I don't think Mickey Mouse or Santa Claus have held us back too much.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 323 ✭✭emigrate2012


    Makeemlaugh,make 'em cry....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,356 ✭✭✭MakeEmLaugh


    Sure are busy at the iona "institute" social media department these days.....

    The concept is comedy,no? After hours pal,bar talk/ gallows humor-yup

    Soft skins/humorless/dry suites-NO!

    Gtfo......

    What's funny is that you think the Iona Institute would ever write a post like this.

    I doubt they can quote George Carlin and Bill Maher.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,997 ✭✭✭Adyx


    Rule #1 for AH after 1am - threads should be no longer than 2 sentences.

    You trying to help people sleep or something? Had I made it to the end, I wouldn't be posting here that's for sure.
    Better OP than you've ever posted that's for sure.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    Sure are busy at the iona "institute" social media department these days.....

    The concept is comedy,no? After hours pal,bar talk/ gallows humor-yup

    Soft skins/humorless/dry suites-NO!

    Gtfo......

    The OP has sources, can't be Iona.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 323 ✭✭emigrate2012


    Haha,I suppose that kind of blasphemy is highly restricted in that place... Zenu is coming.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,997 ✭✭✭Adyx


    I've posted before about my disdain for the attitude of a lot of atheists. Although I was born into a "semi-catholic" family, I cannot honestly say I ever truly believed in a god. At the same time what someone chooses or needs to believe in is no business of mine as long as they leave me out of it. I actually have a lot of respect (and a begrudging admiration if I'm honest) for spiritual people.

    I therefore strongly disagree with mocking individual people who have faith. Organised religion on the other hand can suck my balls. :cool:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭stinkle


    Those instances in OP arent mocking catholicism, they're righly condemning the criminal antics perpetrated by some of its members and enabled by others


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,356 ✭✭✭MakeEmLaugh


    I guess my main point was that, Jewish people like Mel Brooks can make a comedy about a musical based on the Jewish holocaust. If a person who wasn't Jewish did the same, would it be treated the same? I don't know.

    Someone who was raised Catholic, or even raised in a country like the Republic of Ireland - where the Catholic Angelus is broadcast every day at 6:00pm on television and radio - come from a slightly different tradition than someone who wasn't raised in a similar environment.

    Do Catholics/lapsed Catholics have more of a right to mock the Church than others?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    I guess my main point was that, Jewish people like Mel Brooks can make a comedy about a musical based on the Jewish holocaust. If a person who wasn't Jewish did the same, would it be treated the same? I don't know.

    Someone who was raised Catholic, or even raised in a country like the Republic of Ireland - where the Catholic Angelus is broadcast every day at 6:00pm on television and radio - come from a slightly different tradition than someone who wasn't raised in a similar environment.

    Do Catholics/lapsed Catholics have more of a right to mock the Church than others?

    With the holocaust the Jews were the victims, not the perpetrators. Hence you'll see jokes about nazis being more acceptable than jokes about Jews.

    When it comes to jokes about victims then there does tend to be a situation where only people in that group can can really make jokes about themselves, the jokes would tend to be quite dark too.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    The organisation is fair game considering what they did to this country. Individuals? Depends on the extent to which they try to force their way of life on me.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,362 ✭✭✭K4t


    Adyx wrote: »
    I actually have a lot of respect (and a begrudging admiration if I'm honest) for spiritual people.
    Why? As opposed to non-spiritual people.

    I'm equally as pleased to see Catholics and non-Catholics mocking Catholicism.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭porsche959


    Does it bother you more when non-Catholics mock Catholicism?


    As someone that is lapsed Catholic, by and large, no.

    The only occasion when it mildly bothers me is when a non-Catholic is mocking Catholicism as a kind of semi-opaque ruse to convert the Catholic to the non-Catholic's own brand of religious mumbo-jumbo (usually, a fundamentalist brand of Protestantism). The late Ian Paisley sr used to do this rather a lot (he had an entire section of his website devoted to 'Ministering to Catholics').


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,606 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Cat licks are very coarse.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,448 ✭✭✭crockholm


    Ah Anti-Catholicism-the last accecptable form of bigotry.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 893 ✭✭✭PLL


    Greatly, yes. I was interrogated at a dinner party by my oh's atheist cousin once. Asking me why I am I getting my child baptised, is it only because churches are pretty??! I just told her that I believed in God. She laughed (she was also drunk).

    What I don't understand is that any religious people I know are fairly private about it and don't make speeches about their belief system. Where as people that have no religion are constantly making a point to mock religions and people for believing in them. I just find myself thinking 'shut up!' Why can I believe what I want and you believe what you want and we we'll talk about something else. Sadly no.


    Edit: I should note that general jokes about Catholicism don't bother me at all. It is atheists interrogating me, asking me to justify why i believe what I believe to them, so they can mock ME personally that bothers me.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,356 ✭✭✭MakeEmLaugh


    porsche959 wrote: »
    As someone that is lapsed Catholic, by and large, no.

    The only occasion when it mildly bothers me is when a non-Catholic is mocking Catholicism as a kind of semi-opaque ruse to convert the Catholic to the non-Catholic's own brand of religious mumbo-jumbo (usually, a fundamentalist brand of Protestantism). The late Ian Paisley sr used to do this rather a lot (he had an entire section of his website devoted to 'Ministering to Catholics').

    Yes, Paisley mocked Catholicism mercilessly. As in this clip, which mentions "Bachelor priests".

    Is Paisley mocking Catholicism is no different than someone who was raised Catholic and is now atheist mocking Catholicism? Does he have as much of a right to mock it? I don't know.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,362 ✭✭✭K4t


    crockholm wrote: »
    Ah Anti-Catholicism-the last accecptable form of bigotry.
    There is nothing unfair or irrational about opposing Catholicism. And tolerance of intolerance is NOT tolerance.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,448 ✭✭✭crockholm


    K4t wrote: »
    There is nothing unfair or irrational about opposing Catholicism. And tolerance of intolerance is NOT tolerance.

    And do you honestly Believe that the same applies to all beliefs,or just that one in particular?


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