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Some Gardai were present at a murder

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Comments

  • #182
    tipptom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,219 ✭✭✭tipptom


    Why has a Garda who was present at a shooting by an GSC not being interviewed for months.
    If this happened in England involving the police he would have been interviewed within hours.
    Pretty legitimate to question this in any democratic society.


  • #183
    melissak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭melissak


    barneystinson wrote: »
    Maybe I wasn't clear enough.

    I'm very concerned, but that's what I am, concerned. I wish things like this didn't actually ever happen, so that we'd never hear about them. In this case I also take anything Clare Daly says with a bucket load of salt.

    Other posters appear to revel in it, and I suspect they enjoy the opportunity to go online and be outraged. The kind of people who will always find something to give out about.

    I'll withhold my outrage until someone is convicted of, or at least charged with, something.

    Sorry. Hadn't read this post which clarifies your position.


  • #184
    melissak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭melissak


    barneystinson wrote: »
    Yeah I wasn't clear enough, see my clarification about 3 posts that way ^^^

    Read that and come back to me if you're still outraged with me; so much outrage, the ratio of outrage to facts here at the moment is..... outrageous!

    I was just typing an apology when you posted that. I am a slow typer. Again sorry. No outrage here!!


  • #185
    barneystinson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,686 ✭✭✭barneystinson


    tipptom wrote: »
    Why has a Garda who was present at a shooting by an GSC not being interviewed for months.
    If this happened in England involving the police he would have been interviewed within hours.
    Pretty legitimate to question this in any democratic society.

    Interviewed by whom?
    How do you know he hasn't been interviewed?
    When was this shooting?
    The Irish police don't shoot many people so I'm sure you've narrowed it down to the point where you'll be happy to give us the details that Clare Daly won't...?


  • #186
    tipptom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,219 ✭✭✭tipptom


    barneystinson wrote: »
    Interviewed by whom?
    How do you know he hasn't been interviewed?
    When was this shooting?
    The Irish police don't shoot many people so I'm sure you've narrowed it down to the point where you'll be happy to give us the details that Clare Daly won't...?
    The Garda in question wrote to the Taoisigh last year,read the link in the op.


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  • #187
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    geosynchronous orbit wrote: »
    I have no problem with your assertions in relation to political gain but I see no abuse here as no one has been named, there is a file with the enquiry that is being reviewed. She is not making that up.
    Nope, but she did make the allegation that the Gardai murdered someone and covered it up.

    As I understand it, that is not part of the original allegation that's with the review board.


  • #188
    tipptom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,219 ✭✭✭tipptom


    Whatever the other parts of the case this garda is asserting he has not being interviewed about a Garda shooting!!!


  • #189
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Not hard to do the decent thing and apologise, is it?

    No, it never is - as I said it's only boards.ie! You seem to think it is something of more consequence than it actually is.


  • #190
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    geosynchronous orbit wrote: »
    How exactly did she abuse Dail privilege, in your opinion?

    I believe that statement to be factually incorrect and you should correct it.

    I have no problem with your assertions in relation to political gain but I see no abuse here as no one has been named, there is a file with the enquiry that is being reviewed. She is not making that up.

    Dáil privilege exists to raise matters of public interest, not vague claims coletely devoid of any minimal details that allow their substance to be properly assessed.


  • #191
    geosynchronous orbit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 98 ✭✭geosynchronous orbit


    seamus wrote: »
    Nope, but she did make the allegation that the Gardai murdered someone and covered it up.

    .

    The above statement is also not correct.

    I suggest you read and parse the question asked by Clare Daly.


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  • #192
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    tipptom wrote: »
    Why has a Garda who was present at a shooting by an GSC not being interviewed for months.
    If this happened in England involving the police he would have been interviewed within hours.
    Pretty legitimate to question this in any democratic society.

    A Garda who says he was at a shooting......for which no other details (such as the when, where and who of the incident) have been offered.


  • #193
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    tipptom wrote: »
    The Garda in question wrote to the Taoisigh last year,read the link in the op.

    Yes, because the Office of the Taoiseach is the proper authority to whom murders should be reported!


  • #194
    geosynchronous orbit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 98 ✭✭geosynchronous orbit


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Dáil privilege exists to raise matters of public interest, not vague claims coletely devoid of any minimal details that allow their substance to be properly assessed.

    Every word uttered in the Dail is covered under Dail privelge... MLOD abused this privilege by naming individuals. Willie O Dea abused this by making a slandarous statement about a politician in Limerick.

    If a file is with the review board these are not 'vague claims'. It is not up to CD to supply ANY details at this stage as this could prejudice a further investigation.

    Shoot the messenger, yet again, by vested interests on this thread.
    A ploy that can be seen a mile off.


  • #195
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    geosynchronous orbit wrote: »
    Every word uttered in the Dail is covered under Dail privelge... MLOD abused this privilege by naming individuals. Willie O Dea abused this by making a slandarous statement about a politician in Limerick.

    If a file is with the review board these are not 'vague claims'. It is not up to CD to supply ANY details at this stage as this could prejudice a further investigation.

    Shoot the messenger, yet again, by vested interests on this thread.
    A ploy that can be seen a mile off.

    It is, but the privilege is subject to the standing orders of the Dáil - it's not unfettered.

    And there is nothing to stop her providing more details such as approximate location and / or timeframe, or naming the supposed victim.

    She also could clarify if this is an unsolved death or if the cause was mis-attributed (does an inquest need to be reconvened) - or worst case, it's a miscarriage of justice and someone is serving time for a murder committed by someone else.

    All important details she could release without biasing an investigation.


  • #196
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    geosynchronous orbit wrote: »
    The above statement is also not correct.

    I suggest you read and parse the question asked by Clare Daly.
    You mean this bit?
    I ask you to consider the fact that, in the past number of months, not one person from that review panel has contacted this person to ask him what murder this was, who was murdered and who was there.
    Now, unless you can point me to a relatively recent (last 20 years) example of someone who we know was murdered by the Gardai in a shooting, then it's pretty clear that Ms Daly's allegation is that there was a murder covered up.


  • #197
    geosynchronous orbit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 98 ✭✭geosynchronous orbit


    Jawgap wrote: »
    It is, but the privilege is subject to the standing orders of the Dáil - it's not unfettered.

    And there is nothing to stop her providing more details such as approximate location and / or timeframe, or naming the supposed victim.

    She also could clarify if this is an unsolved death or if the cause was mis-attributed (does an inquest need to be reconvened) - or worst case, it's a miscarriage of justice and someone is serving time for a murder committed by someone else.

    All important details she could release without biasing an investigation.


    Why should she?

    Mr Kenny has all the detail, the review board has a file on this apparently.
    There is nothing to be gained by releasing this information to the dail. But all eyes will be on the review boards report now, that is for sure. This will not be filed away in a filing cabinet. Mission accomplished for CD.


  • #198
    mynamejeff
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭mynamejeff


    what if daly is wrong or misinformed or confused or jumping the gun or just plain making it up ?

    dail privilege is being abused by politicians who are just bucking for some free publicity with a election looming.

    saying something stupid or making accusations with no proof to attract newspaper headlines with out any consequences is a lot cheaper than paying for election posters.

    gutter trash media definitely appeals to dalys voters demographic .

    Two days later and still no offer of proof or any kind of details that would make her claims believable.
    if she was to come out with at least where and when it might have some substance


  • #199
    geosynchronous orbit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 98 ✭✭geosynchronous orbit


    seamus wrote: »
    You mean this bit?

    There is insinuation - not allegation. Correct your post and be done with it.


  • #200
    tipptom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,219 ✭✭✭tipptom


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Yes, because the Office of the Taoiseach is the proper authority to whom murders should be reported!
    Absolutely ,when matters are not being properly investigated as has happened before when gardai within the force made allegations and were not properly investigated and dark forces were brought to bear on these gardai who made the allegations and were subsequently apologised to.


  • #201
    geosynchronous orbit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 98 ✭✭geosynchronous orbit


    mynamejeff wrote: »
    what if daly is wrong or misinformed or confused or jumping the gun or just plain making it up ?

    dail privilege is being abused by politicians who are just bucking for some free publicity with a election looming.

    saying something stupid or making accusations with no proof to attract newspaper headlines with out any consequences is a lot cheaper than paying for election posters.

    gutter trash media definitely appeals to dalys voters demographic .

    Two days later and still no offer of proof or any kind of details that would make her claims believable.
    if she was to come out with at least where and when it might have some substance

    Really?? Are you saying that Daly made up the fact she was contacted. Made up that the person contacted the Taosieach or made up that there is file with the review board.


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  • #202
    tipptom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,219 ✭✭✭tipptom


    geosynchronous orbit wrote: »
    Really?? Are you saying that Daly made up the fact she was contacted. Made up that the person contacted the Taosieach or made up that there is file with the review board.
    Think that is what they are saying because of their hatred for CD,nothing else.


  • #203
    mynamejeff
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭mynamejeff


    geosynchronous orbit wrote: »
    Really?? Are you saying that Daly made up the fact she was contacted. Made up that the person contacted the Taosieach or made up that there is file with the review board.

    she has offered no proof that i have seen just allegations so far.

    fairly easy to give some sort of proof or details but nothing so far,


  • #204
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    geosynchronous orbit wrote: »
    Why should she?

    Mr Kenny has all the detail, the review board has a file on this apparently.
    There is nothing to be gained by releasing this information to the dail. But all eyes will be on the review boards report now, that is for sure. This will not be filed away in a filing cabinet. Mission accomplished for CD.

    Because it's a matter of public interest. Potentially someone is in prison for something they didn't do or a family is living under a mistaken belief as to how a loved one died.

    Anyway from the extract posted above it sounds like she hasn't even taken the time to establish the basic who, where and when of the alleged murder.


  • #205
    bjork
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,554 ✭✭✭bjork


    seamus wrote: »
    You mean this bit?

    Now, unless you can point me to a relatively recent (last 20 years) example of someone who we know was murdered by the Gardai in a shooting, then it's pretty clear that Ms Daly's insinuation is that there was a murder covered up.

    But isn't that the point. How would we know who was murdered by the Gardai, because apparently, from what we are being told, none of them were there. They all have alibis for being back in the station drinking tea with the sergeant.


  • #206
    mynamejeff
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭mynamejeff


    tipptom wrote: »
    Think that is what they are saying because of their hatred for CD,nothing else.

    "well i reckon that jfk was killed but green men from mars "

    see there is no proof for that statement no more than there is for dalys statements


  • #207
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    tipptom wrote: »
    Think that is what they are saying because of their hatred for CD,nothing else.

    And the absence of anything of substance put forward by her to support her claim.


  • #208
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    tipptom wrote: »
    Absolutely ,when matters are not being properly investigated as has happened before when gardai within the force made allegations and were not properly investigated and dark forces were brought to bear on these gardai who made the allegations and were subsequently apologised to.

    Even though the Office of the Taoiseach has no executive or oversight role in relation to state security? Or the institutions that provide accountability to the state security apparatus?

    But reporting to the Taosieach does make for good publicity.


  • #209
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Jawgap wrote: »
    No, it never is - as I said it's only boards.ie! You seem to think it is something of more consequence than it actually is.

    No, I am under no illusions about the lack of consequence in your arguments. ;)


  • #210
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    No, I am under no illusions about the lack of consequence in your arguments. ;)

    Good. It would be disturbing to think people actually take my utterances seriously, given the amount of thought I put in to most of them :D


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  • #211
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    geosynchronous orbit wrote: »
    There is insinuation - not allegation. Correct your post and be done with it.
    Grand, I've corrected my post to read "allegation" rather than "insinuation".


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