This fat girl runs, breathes and believes

Run and Jump · 16-04-2015 10:11AM

This Fat Girl Runs wrote: »

Interesting discussion, it's giving me lots to think about!

Just keep in mind the 10 miles per week will definitely increase. This week I'll be hitting 12 miles.

Also, I am already crosstraining with my trainer. I workout with him twice a week doing spinning, pilates, light weights for upper body and leg/posterior chain strengthening.

Does that change things?

I'm back on the Pilates this week after doing three months of it last summer - I found it beneficial: I felt stronger and more limber with it. Of course, after the first class back I feel like I have a hangover from the neck down.

I've relied on hills and speed training (threshold runs, short sprint repetitions, fartlek and the like) to build up strength, so I haven't done weights or gym work. Not to say that weights and gym work are bad for runners - others here can advise on that.

demfad · 16-04-2015 11:16AM

davedanon wrote: »

If you want to train for a marathon, you've got to be running, first and foremost. Other sorts of training are irrelevant, if you are starting at 10 miles a week. The only thing that matters is training the body to run more miles. In my opinion.

davedanon wrote: »

Forgive me for speaking my mind, but the above training discussion sounds needlessly and excessively complicated to me - so I'm calling bull**** on it.

Ill speak my mind too. If your claiming BS on something/someone its only fair that you actually back it up.

If you're running 10 miles a week, and cycling 60, then in my book that makes you a cyclist, doing cycling training with a bit of running thrown in.

With respect, that's what one might conclude if one took a snapshot of one weeks training and applied it to the whole marathon preparation process in order to make a point.
If at the end of the process she is running 40 miles per week and cycling 20, she will be a far more of a runner than if she is shuffling 30 miles per week.

As far as I'm concerned, cycling makes you good at cycling, and running makes you good at running.

But as I have pointed out with explanation: if her running is very limited (and it is), cycling can be a valuable, even necessary addition to improve the central engine which processes air and beats blood in the same way for cycling as for running. The OP will have enough trouble using running to develop msucular/skeletal endurance. Why wouldnt she benefit from cycling to get a head start on her cardio vascular development, some specific leg strenght (quads) and essential active recovery?

If you want to train for a marathon, you've got to be running, first and foremost. Other sorts of training are irrelevant, if you are starting at 10 miles a week. The only thing that matters is training the body to run more miles. In my opinion

Id argue the opposite: if your body cant handle relatively high mileage due to injury risk you benefit most from cycling. Masters should cycle on some of their recovery days. Even Meb replaces some recovery runs with cycling due to this structural risk. For a person who can only manage 10-12 miles per week due to these issues, its a real no-brainer.

I wont call BS on your post because I believe you are being honest. But if you dont back up your assertions from now on, you'll be calling BS on yourself.

walshb · 16-04-2015 11:18AM

I'd swap the 60 miles biking, which is probably worth close to 0 and do 60 miles running. Cycling is of very little benefit when marathon training. Running is tougher, and no matter how much leg work you get from cycling it likley will be worth very little when you start running.

davedanon · 16-04-2015 11:54AM

There's nothing to 'back up'. I'm not an expert on the science of running. I just expressed my opinion. The real problem is getting from 10 mile a week to 26.2 in one continuous run. It doesn't matter how much aerobic fitness is built up by other means, if you can't physically run the distance. Anyway, this is someone's log, and I'm not doing the OP any favours with this, so I'll shut up now. Lots of luck with it.

demfad · 16-04-2015 11:59AM

This Fat Girl Runs wrote: »

Interesting discussion, it's giving me lots to think about!

Just keep in mind the 10 miles per week will definitely increase. This week I'll be hitting 12 miles.

Also, I am already crosstraining with my trainer. I workout with him twice a week doing spinning, pilates, light weights for upper body and leg/posterior chain strengthening.

Does that change things?

That looks fine.

IMO Id add more easy cycling to the mix if you're up to it. It will aid recovery and help with the heart/lungs while you slowly increase running mileage.

As a novice runner you will make gains with the intervals. Be careful with these. As you get closer to the marathon they should become less of a help and more of an impediment and you'll need more of your energy for longer runs.

When the time comes instead of doing one long run a week, I would do two moderately long runs over a weekend. e.g 1 on Saturday and 1 on Sunday This allows you to do more training during the week and reduces injury risk.

You could aim to do one long run once every 3 weeks with good rest before and after and the moderate doubles should prepare you well for this.

Chivito550 · 16-04-2015 12:10PM

To be honest, the OP is being coached by Shona Thomson, who has battled artic conditions to complete the North Pole Marathon. She's also a sub 60 minute 10km runner so has the raw speed knowledge to go along with endurance. I reckon the OP is in good hands.

demfad · 16-04-2015 12:12PM

davedanon wrote: »

There's nothing to 'back up'. I'm not an expert on the science of running. I just expressed my opinion.

But with respect, even though you've admitted that you have nothing to back up your opinion: your opinion was that my post was "bulls**t".

If you don't have the knowledge/experience to back up such an extreme (and lets face it, disrespectful) position then why make the assertion?

By making a claim of BS, without being able to back it up you are hoisting yourself by your own petard.

Best of luck to the OP. Ill check in again in a few weeks.

(BTW: I'm no expert on the Science of running/running research either. I go on what proven coaches say, and how it tallies with my own experience.)

davedanon · 16-04-2015 12:15PM

demfad wrote: »

But with respect your opinion was that my post was "bulls**t".

If you don't have the knowledge/experience to back up such an extreme (and lets face it, disrespectful) position then why make the assertion?

By making a claim of BS, without being able to back it up you may be hoisting yourself by your own petard.

Best of luck to the OP. Ill check in again in a few weeks.

Like I said, I'm not getting involved on someone else's log. If you think you've made a point, fine. My opinion hasn't changed.

This Fat Girl Runs · 16-04-2015 12:44PM

Run and Jump wrote: »

I'm back on the Pilates this week after doing three months of it last summer - I found it beneficial: I felt stronger and more limber with it. Of course, after the first class back I feel like I have a hangover from the neck down.

I've relied on hills and speed training (threshold runs, short sprint repetitions, fartlek and the like) to build up strength, so I haven't done weights or gym work. Not to say that weights and gym work are bad for runners - others here can advise on that.

The pilates has really helped me too! Even though it hurts like heck! We've started adding a 4kg medicine ball to the moves. It's all worth it though, as it has definitely improved my running.

The weights and gym work is all to get my muscles toned up to become efficient fuel burners. It's also changed my running for the better so I'm glad for it!

My coach and my trainer are working together on the programme/training plan so it's all integrated.

This Fat Girl Runs · 16-04-2015 12:46PM

demfad wrote: »

That looks fine.

IMO Id add more easy cycling to the mix if you're up to it. It will aid recovery and help with the heart/lungs while you slowly increase running mileage.

As a novice runner you will make gains with the intervals. Be careful with these. As you get closer to the marathon they should become less of a help and more of an impediment and you'll need more of your energy for longer runs.

When the time comes instead of doing one long run a week, I would do two moderately long runs over a weekend. e.g 1 on Saturday and 1 on Sunday This allows you to do more training during the week and reduces injury risk.

You could aim to do one long run once every 3 weeks with good rest before and after and the moderate doubles should prepare you well for this.

Thanks for that. I do spend some time on the bike during my workouts. I am limited with time (as in hours in the day and days in the week) so I do what I can!

Bungy Girl · 16-04-2015 01:01PM

+1 to the Pilates. I think it's vital for runners to help with form and to reduce the risk of injury. I have noticed a massive difference in the way I run since making Pilates part of my routine.

I wish you the very best of luck with your marathon challenge. I don't think anyone here doubts your determination and mental capacity (if that's the right term) to undertake this significant challenge. The thing with marathons, as many people here myself included have discovered, is the sheer physical distress they can place on your body. And the fact that the distance is unknown, in that you don't cover it in training. With the best will and training in the world things can still go wrong and part of the process should be to anticipate that and to accept that if you get injured it's not the end of the world. And should that happen it's important not to push through the pain, rather listen to your body and adapt as necessary.

HelenAnne · 16-04-2015 01:58PM

I do Pilates too. I love it! Not sure if I've noticed changes to my running form, but I think I'm stronger than I was, so that has to be a good thing.

Chivito550 · 16-04-2015 02:18PM

Just wondering, with all this in depth technical preparation your coaching team has for you, have you got a goal race weight that you will be looking to achieve in order to get the best out of yourself on race day? For example a 3-4 stone drop will yield improvements of enormous proportions. Is this part of your training plan, and can you give us an insight into how you will try to achieve this, so that others in a similar position of wanting to get the weight significantly down can take inspiration?

Firedance · 16-04-2015 02:19PM

Bungy Girl wrote: »

+1 to the Pilates. I think it's vital for runners to help with form and to reduce the risk of injury. I have noticed a massive difference in the way I run since making Pilates part of my routine.

I wish you the very best of luck with your marathon challenge. I don't think anyone here doubts your determination and mental capacity (if that's the right term) to undertake this significant challenge. The thing with marathons, as many people here myself included have discovered, is the sheer physical distress they can place on your body. And the fact that the distance is unknown, in that you don't cover it in training. With the best will and training in the world things can still go wrong and part of the process should be to anticipate that and to accept that if you get injured it's not the end of the world. And should that happen it's important not to push through the pain, rather listen to your body and adapt as necessary.

Bungy girl has got this spot on, something that was said over and over to me last year was 'respect the distance, 26.2' I can say hand on heart I did not understand what that meant until after I crossed the finish line, I had run the Athlone 3/4's marathon which is just shy of 20 miles but there was no comparison, either physically or mentally to 26.2. I would echo what others have said too, there is a wealth of knowledge on this forum, use it, don't be afraid to ask a question, you might not always like the answer but we are (mostly!) just ordinary runners and someone will undoubtedly have experienced something you come up against. Good luck with the training.

tunguska · 16-04-2015 02:20PM

demfad wrote: »

Ill speak my mind too. If your claiming BS on something/someone its only fair that you actually back it up.

With respect, that's what one might conclude if one took a snapshot of one weeks training and applied it to the whole marathon preparation process in order to make a point.
If at the end of the process she is running 40 miles per week and cycling 20, she will be a far more of a runner than if she is shuffling 30 miles per week.

But as I have pointed out with explanation: if her running is very limited (and it is), cycling can be a valuable, even necessary addition to improve the central engine which processes air and beats blood in the same way for cycling as for running. The OP will have enough trouble using running to develop msucular/skeletal endurance. Why wouldnt she benefit from cycling to get a head start on her cardio vascular development, some specific leg strenght (quads) and essential active recovery?

Id argue the opposite: if your body cant handle relatively high mileage due to injury risk you benefit most from cycling. Masters should cycle on some of their recovery days. Even Meb replaces some recovery runs with cycling due to this structural risk. For a person who can only manage 10-12 miles per week due to these issues, its a real no-brainer.

I wont call BS on your post because I believe you are being honest. But if you dont back up your assertions from now on, you'll be calling BS on yourself.

Your writing style is eerily similar to someone who used to post on this forum. He would go and on in an overly formal and technical way, his posts had all the personality of the colour grey, loved to multi quote and had appointed himself the resident "Menimist". Didn't know the meaning of the words, let it go, either.

This Fat Girl Runs · 16-04-2015 02:30PM

Bungy Girl wrote: »

+1 to the Pilates. I think it's vital for runners to help with form and to reduce the risk of injury. I have noticed a massive difference in the way I run since making Pilates part of my routine.

I wish you the very best of luck with your marathon challenge. I don't think anyone here doubts your determination and mental capacity (if that's the right term) to undertake this significant challenge. The thing with marathons, as many people here myself included have discovered, is the sheer physical distress they can place on your body. And the fact that the distance is unknown, in that you don't cover it in training. With the best will and training in the world things can still go wrong and part of the process should be to anticipate that and to accept that if you get injured it's not the end of the world. And should that happen it's important not to push through the pain, rather listen to your body and adapt as necessary.

I'm very aware that I will have to listen to my body, and if at any time I feel I can't do this, then trust me, I will be ok with saying so!

I haven't mentioned it yet but I'm going to be using the half marathon I'm running in August as my 'test'. It's going to tell me if I'm on the right track or not. It will be a huge determining factor in whether or not I continue on to the marathon!

Also, I know I have not covered the longer distances yet...but the YET is the big key here. I WILL be covering those distances soon!

And in all seriousness, if at any time my coach and trainer feel that I'm not meeting the targets and should try for next year then they will say so, and I will listen to them. When I signed on to work with them I decided I would do everything they tell me to (in a partnering kind of way, not a dictatorship!). They are the experts, after all!

All in all, I feel that I'm approaching this with an open mind, being smart about my training and goals and careful with my progress and training.

paddymorisseyy · 16-04-2015 02:40PM

This Fat Girl Runs wrote: »

I'm very aware that I will have to listen to my body, and if at any time I feel I can't do this, then trust me, I will be ok with saying so!

I haven't mentioned it yet but I'm going to be using the half marathon I'm running in August as my 'test'. It's going to tell me if I'm on the right track or not. It will be a huge determining factor in whether or not I continue on to the marathon!

Also, I know I have not covered the longer distances yet...but the YET is the big key here. I WILL be covering those distances soon!

And in all seriousness, if at any time my coach and trainer feel that I'm not meeting the targets and should try for next year then they will say so, and I will listen to them. When I signed on to work with them I decided I would do everything they tell me to (in a partnering kind of way, not a dictatorship!). They are the experts, after all!

All in all, I feel that I'm approaching this with an open mind, being smart about my training and goals and careful with my progress and training.

Best oF luCK with ur goal to do the maraThon,my friend is also doin 1 this year,she bicycles a lot aswell like demfrad said and Does the lots of yoga and the posting and piLatez

This Fat Girl Runs · 16-04-2015 02:40PM

Chivito550 wrote: »

Just wondering, with all this in depth technical preparation your coaching team has for you, have you got a goal race weight that you will be looking to achieve in order to get the best out of yourself on race day? For example a 3-4 stone drop will yield improvements of enormous proportions. Is this part of your training plan, and can you give us an insight into how you will try to achieve this, so that others in a similar position of wanting to get the weight significantly down can take inspiration?

Good question, thanks for asking!

I don't have a goal weight in mind, my running has never been about losing weight specifically. I went to my trainer first and foremost to become a better runner which means strengthening my core and improving my muscle tone. It's a fair point you bring up though and I'll mention it to my coach and trainer.

So what I HAVE done is lose body fat and gain muscle mass, which to me is more important than what the scales say. I have dropped a clothes size already and lost inches all over the place but the scales haven't changed as much as one might expect for my level of activity.

Right now, the thing I'm working on the most which will help with my weight is to get my carb:protein:fat ratios right. I have spoken to my trainer and my coach about switching to a low carb high fat plan for the first part of my training. They weren't terribly keen on it so I am rethinking the approach. Any (constructive) advice/tips you have would be appreciated.

My eating habits are very healthy though, so I have a good place to start from. I don't eat processed foods or fizzy drinks or any sugary drink for that matter (no fruit juices!). I don't eat chocolate or crisps or cake or cookies and I'm also off caffeine. I rarely eat bread. I drink 2-3 litres of water a day and eat 5 small meals a day with plenty of vegetables and protein. In fact, I've had my trainer, a doctor and a nutritionist look at my food diary and they were all happy with it.

I'm not sure what more I can do to specifically lose weight, but as long as I keep losing body fat I'm happy enough!

So I'm not sure if I really answered your question, but hopefully that gives more insight into my approach and where I'm coming from.

walshb · 16-04-2015 02:48PM

paddy, get a new fooking keyboard!

Run and Jump · 16-04-2015 03:00PM

This Fat Girl Runs wrote: »

Good question, thanks for asking!

I don't have a goal weight in mind, my running has never been about losing weight specifically. I went to my trainer first and foremost to become a better runner which means strengthening my core and improving my muscle tone. It's a fair point you bring up though and I'll mention it to my coach and trainer.

So what I HAVE done is lose body fat and gain muscle mass, which to me is more important than what the scales say. I have dropped a clothes size already and lost inches all over the place but the scales haven't changed as much as one might expect for my level of activity.

Right now, the thing I'm working on the most which will help with my weight is to get my carb:protein:fat ratios right. I have spoken to my trainer and my coach about switching to a low carb high fat plan for the first part of my training. They weren't terribly keen on it so I am rethinking the approach. Any (constructive) advice/tips you have would be appreciated.

My eating habits are very healthy though, so I have a good place to start from. I don't eat processed foods or fizzy drinks or any sugary drink for that matter (no fruit juices!). I don't eat chocolate or crisps or cake or cookies and I'm also off caffeine. I rarely eat bread. I drink 2-3 litres of water a day and eat 5 small meals a day with plenty of vegetables and protein. In fact, I've had my trainer, a doctor and a nutritionist look at my food diary and they were all happy with it.

I'm not sure what more I can do to specifically lose weight, but as long as I keep losing body fat I'm happy enough!

So I'm not sure if I really answered your question, but hopefully that gives more insight into my approach and where I'm coming from.

You're right not to focus on weight: losing fat but developing muscle will mean that a beginner will probably weigh the same for a while but see the difference by getting slimmer.

I discussed low carbs with a nutritionist, who encouraged me instead to stick to a balanced diet. That said, low-carb diets work for some runners, while others need the energy of carbs.

Other advice I got from the nutritionist: A good breakfast before leaving the house, a good lunch so that you have most of your day's eating done by lunchtime, a small (and early) evening meal and regular hydration. Also, keeping the metabolism ticking over between meals with a small snack of yoghurt or nuts.

walshb · 16-04-2015 03:03PM

Run and Jump wrote: »

You're right not to focus on weight: .

Is this a joke?

Chivito550 · 16-04-2015 03:04PM

This Fat Girl Runs wrote: »

Good question, thanks for asking!

I don't have a goal weight in mind, my running has never been about losing weight specifically. I went to my trainer first and foremost to become a better runner which means strengthening my core and improving my muscle tone. It's a fair point you bring up though and I'll mention it to my coach and trainer.

So what I HAVE done is lose body fat and gain muscle mass, which to me is more important than what the scales say. I have dropped a clothes size already and lost inches all over the place but the scales haven't changed as much as one might expect for my level of activity.

Right now, the thing I'm working on the most which will help with my weight is to get my carb:protein:fat ratios right. I have spoken to my trainer and my coach about switching to a low carb high fat plan for the first part of my training. They weren't terribly keen on it so I am rethinking the approach. Any (constructive) advice/tips you have would be appreciated.

My eating habits are very healthy though, so I have a good place to start from. I don't eat processed foods or fizzy drinks or any sugary drink for that matter (no fruit juices!). I don't eat chocolate or crisps or cake or cookies and I'm also off caffeine. I rarely eat bread. I drink 2-3 litres of water a day and eat 5 small meals a day with plenty of vegetables and protein. In fact, I've had my trainer, a doctor and a nutritionist look at my food diary and they were all happy with it.

I'm not sure what more I can do to specifically lose weight, but as long as I keep losing body fat I'm happy enough!

So I'm not sure if I really answered your question, but hopefully that gives more insight into my approach and where I'm coming from.

Losing weight WILL 100% be the most important factor in becoming a better runner. Look at the Olympics. You never see an overweight or obese marathon runner there, and there's a reason. Go for a run with a 20kg weighted vest on and see how much slower you run than normal. Then consider how much faster you would run if you lost a good chunk of weight. A worthy experiment IMO, to start to understand how much of an impact excess weight has on running.

Run and Jump · 16-04-2015 03:11PM

walshb wrote: »

Is this a joke?

No - for a beginner like the OP, focus on following the training and good nutrition to begin with, not on being discouraged by the weighing scales. The weight loss will come in time.

walshb · 16-04-2015 03:13PM

Run and Jump wrote: »

No - for a beginner like the OP, focus on following the training and good nutrition to begin with, not on being discouraged by the weighing scales. The weight loss will come in time.

In time? It's 6 months to the race! Weight loss should be the main priority from now till race day!

This Fat Girl Runs · 16-04-2015 03:13PM

Firedance wrote: »

Bungy girl has got this spot on, something that was said over and over to me last year was 'respect the distance, 26.2' I can say hand on heart I did not understand what that meant until after I crossed the finish line, I had run the Athlone 3/4's marathon which is just shy of 20 miles but there was no comparison, either physically or mentally to 26.2. I would echo what others have said too, there is a wealth of knowledge on this forum, use it, don't be afraid to ask a question, you might not always like the answer but we are (mostly!) just ordinary runners and someone will undoubtedly have experienced something you come up against. Good luck with the training.

I'm lucky in that I've three colleagues who all ran the marathon last year (and two who ran it previous years). They are all on board for giving me their tips/hints/advice on the course. Reading race reports here and training logs is also a big help.

I know it's a long way, boy do I know! I've been studying the map and watched a video of the route. I'm familiar with the first part of the course (about 10 miles worth) and when I do my long runs I am training on a good stretch of the course. I think the familiarity with some of the route will help in the long run. Opps. I didn't mean to make a pun, honest!

For myself I think it's key to respect the course, but not be afraid of it.

Run and Jump · 16-04-2015 03:18PM

walshb wrote: »

In time? It's 6 months to the race! Weight loss should be the main priority from now till race day!

Training should be the priority from now until race day

walshb · 16-04-2015 03:19PM

Run and Jump wrote: »

Training should be the priority from now until race day

Yes, in conjunction with getting weight down as much as possible. To train effectively this is essential. Let's try make this journey easy for the OP, not difficult!

Pacing Mule · 16-04-2015 03:23PM

Run and Jump wrote: »

You're right not to focus on weight: losing fat but developing muscle will mean that a beginner will probably weigh the same for a while but see the difference by getting slimmer.

That makes no sense.

When a very overweight person starts excercising and eating properly they lose weight and lose it fast. Yes there is a bit of toning and muscle mass building but that only comes into play in a meaningful way at the very end of play where you've not much fat left to lose, are losing it slowly and at a rate that perhaps a bit of toning will counter. Speaking personally here coming from 17 stone myself if you eat properly and excercise you would see a real sustainable 2lb weight loss or thereabouts every week. Some weeks I lost way more than this. That simply isn't balanced off by muscle toning.

HelenAnne · 16-04-2015 03:24PM

Firedance wrote: »

Bungy girl has got this spot on, something that was said over and over to me last year was 'respect the distance, 26.2' I can say hand on heart I did not understand what that meant until after I crossed the finish line, I had run the Athlone 3/4's marathon which is just shy of 20 miles but there was no comparison, either physically or mentally to 26.2. I would echo what others have said too, there is a wealth of knowledge on this forum, use it, don't be afraid to ask a question, you might not always like the answer but we are (mostly!) just ordinary runners and someone will undoubtedly have experienced something you come up against. Good luck with the training.

God, I would agree with this so much. Enjoyable long runs of up to 22 miles did NOT prepare me for how I felt on marathon day! I thought I was listening to people telling me that, but I didn't KNOW it until I'd done it

Pacing Mule · 16-04-2015 03:34PM

This Fat Girl Runs wrote: »

Good question, thanks for asking!

I don't have a goal weight in mind, my running has never been about losing weight specifically. I went to my trainer first and foremost to become a better runner which means strengthening my core and improving my muscle tone. It's a fair point you bring up though and I'll mention it to my coach and trainer.

So what I HAVE done is lose body fat and gain muscle mass, which to me is more important than what the scales say. I have dropped a clothes size already and lost inches all over the place but the scales haven't changed as much as one might expect for my level of activity.

Right now, the thing I'm working on the most which will help with my weight is to get my carb:protein:fat ratios right. I have spoken to my trainer and my coach about switching to a low carb high fat plan for the first part of my training. They weren't terribly keen on it so I am rethinking the approach. Any (constructive) advice/tips you have would be appreciated.

My eating habits are very healthy though, so I have a good place to start from. I don't eat processed foods or fizzy drinks or any sugary drink for that matter (no fruit juices!). I don't eat chocolate or crisps or cake or cookies and I'm also off caffeine. I rarely eat bread. I drink 2-3 litres of water a day and eat 5 small meals a day with plenty of vegetables and protein. In fact, I've had my trainer, a doctor and a nutritionist look at my food diary and they were all happy with it.

I'm not sure what more I can do to specifically lose weight, but as long as I keep losing body fat I'm happy enough!

So I'm not sure if I really answered your question, but hopefully that gives more insight into my approach and where I'm coming from.

This makes no sense to me to be very honest. Would you be willing to post up what a typical 5 small meals day looks like in detail ? I lost a lot of my weight following a concept called slimming world. It's not a diet diet and is more about not eating processed foods and preparing your own. I was still able to eat the likes of burgers and chips, pizza, potatoes and rice and was still losing weight. There would be a few not recommended foods and I am wondering what you are eating for and with the protein.

This fat girl runs, breathes and believes

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