Some Gardai were present at a murder

SEPT 23 1989 · 16-04-2015 11:42AM

this is a huge story

16-04-2015 11:44AM

Floppybits wrote: »

I don't she is an embarrassment, the work she did exposing the cover ups going in AGS in regards to speeding tickets being written off and the treatment of Garda whistleblowers by the force deserves to be commended by any right minded person.

She has done a lot more in the dail than alot other government TD's who remember all backed a Garda commissioner and Justice Minister who were doing their level best to destroy the whistle blower.

So fair play to Clare Daly for bringing the behavior of the Gardai out into the open and hopefully the force gets cleaned up because of it. Shame on all those TD's who backed a disgraceful Garda Commissioner and an unfit minister for Justice. I will be remembering that when those TD's who voted confidence in the Justice minister come knocking on my door come the next election. Maybe if other people actually took of their Party blinkers we might get some proper reforms in this country.

The only embarrassments I see in the Dail are those TD's who blindly support their party no matter who right or wrong they are and their party supporters who do their level best to describe anyone who speaks out against their beloved party or their leader as a crank, lunatic or Sinn Feiner. It is them that should be embarrassed.

Hear hear!

And let's not forget that for her troubles Ms Daly was pulled over and arrested (despite passing a breath test), information that mysteriously made its way immediately to the useful idiots in the Irish media who had a field day of course - before she was confirmed to be completely innocent of all charges.

But yeah - anyone claiming that AGS might just be ever so slightly corrupt is obviously just an attention seeker...

No wonder this country is so f**ked

DamagedTrax · 16-04-2015 11:54AM

Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »

What Clare Daly is saying under Dail privilege may well be very true and if so, as grave an over-stepping of the power of one wing of the state's power as I have heard in some time. But don't let that stop your misogynistic hissing.

gardai accused of murder and cover-up, boards right-wingers jump to their defence.

protesters accused of not letting joan out of her car for an hour, boards right-wingers think less of them than the gardai accused of murder.

the right wing, a great bunch of lads.

Jawgap · 16-04-2015 11:58AM

Streetwalker wrote: »

Thank god for political people the ilk of Daly. What a cesspit the Gardaí have become.

Bit unfair to tar them all with the same brush - there's good and bad Guards, just as there are good and bad politicians.

It was, after all, the Guards who nailed Graham Dwyer with a ton of good old fashioned police work.

.....and if an offence was committed by a Guard surely it should be reported to GSOC?

As for Daly, I thought she handled the Fatal Foetal Abnormalities legislation with great compassion (possibly her finest moment in the Dail so far) but this just reminds me what a harpie she is when she's at her worst.

rocky911 · 16-04-2015 12:03PM

Jawgap wrote: »

Bit unfair to tar them all with the same brush - there's good and bad Guards, just as there are good and bad politicians.

It was, after all, the Guards who nailed Graham Dwyer with a ton of good old fashioned police work.

.....and if an offence was committed by a Guard surely it should be reported to GSOC?

As for Daly, I thought she handled the Fatal Foetal Abnormalities legislation with great compassion (possibly her finest moment in the Dail so far) but this just reminds me what a harpie she is when she's at her worst.

The problem is that the way these things are brought to light is that it may have happened in the last few weeks, a lot of this stuff happened years ago not in the present day and then everyone believes that every guard is guilty of hiding someone.

I dont care what anyone says, what happened in Jobstown is still a disgrace..if it was any other Democratic country in the EU for example people would have been dragged out of it. But thats a different topic.

Jawgap · 16-04-2015 12:08PM

rocky911 wrote: »

The problem is that the way these things are brought to light is that it may have happened in the last few weeks, a lot of this stuff happened years ago not in the present day and then everyone believes that every guard is guilty of hiding someone.

I dont care what anyone says, what happened in Jobstown is still a disgrace..if it was any other Democratic country in the EU for example people would have been dragged out of it. But thats a different topic.

Regarding Joan Burton?

On a general note, I think the Guards have policed the water protests with great restraint in face of some utter muppetry.

I'd love to see some of the people hurling the insults at the Guards go to France and try it on with the CRS or the Bereitschaftspolizei in Germany

16-04-2015 12:09PM

rocky911 wrote: »

The problem is that the way these things are brought to light is that it may have happened in the last few weeks, a lot of this stuff happened years ago not in the present day and then everyone believes that every guard is guilty of hiding someone.

I dont care what anyone says, what happened in Jobstown is still a disgrace..if it was any other Democratic country in the EU for example people would have been dragged out of it. But thats a different topic.

I think the problem is that these things aren't brought to light, isn't it?

Claire Daly is being a 'harpie' by asking why the key witness / whistleblower in a case is being ignored by the supposed investigation. It's not like this didn't happen before. It's almost as if there's a pattern.

Thank God we have people in the Dail willing to ask difficult questions about things that actually matter rather than shuffling around funerals and getting planning applications passed.

She's not my TD but I wish she was.

Jawgap · 16-04-2015 12:14PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I think the problem is that these things aren't brought to light, isn't it?

Claire Daly is being a 'harpie' by asking why the key witness / whistleblower in a case is being ignored by the supposed investigation. It's not like this didn't happen before. It's almost as if there's a pattern.

Thank God we have people in the Dail willing to ask difficult questions about things that actually matter rather than shuffling around funerals and getting planning applications passed.

She's not my TD but I wish she was.

Who says the witness is a 'key' witness?

It seems to me that Misery Lou and Clare are engaged in the female equivalent of a pi$$ing contest in the Dail.

16-04-2015 12:20PM

Jawgap wrote: »

Who says the witness is a 'key' witness?

It seems to me that Misery Lou and Clare are engaged in the female equivalent of a pi$$ing contest in the Dail.

"This is a question regarding a person who contacted you [Mr Kenny] last year and told you he had information on gardaí being present in a room when a civilian was shot by gardaí and of being ordered by his superiors to say he wasn't present," Ms Daly said. "I ask you to consider the fact that, in the past number of months, not one person from that review panel has contacted this person to ask him what murder this was, who was murdered and who was there.
"How in God's name can a review panel recommend anything if this is the type of shoddy investigation that is going on?"

At the very least - shouldn't this be followed up? Would you agree? Or do you think a claim like that is best ignored for a while?

padd b1975 · 16-04-2015 12:20PM

It would appear she's been at the Jameson again...

Sleepy · 16-04-2015 12:21PM

Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »

What Clare Daly is saying under Dail privilege may well be very true and if so, as grave an over-stepping of the power of one wing of the state's power as I have heard in some time. But don't let that stop your misogynistic hissing.

Yes, disliking a politician because of her refusal to pay her taxes, support for Mick Wallace when his tax affairs would have lead any moral person to resign his position, her fraudulent expenses claims, her complete disregard for the safety of passengers at Shannon Airport and the laws enforced to protect same... not to mention her utter lack of economics or reality.

Yup, that's misogynism at it's finest.

mikom · 16-04-2015 12:24PM

The best little country in the world to be present at a murder.

Hans Bricks · 16-04-2015 12:25PM

You would think the embarrassment she made of herself running at aeroplanes in Shannon with that other homeless looking tramp Wallace would have humbled her. No, here we go again.

Dog of Tears · 16-04-2015 12:28PM

Outlandish claim from thick-as-sh;t politician using Dail privilege.

Yeah, sounds believable.

tipptom · 16-04-2015 12:28PM

Sleepy wrote: »

Yes, disliking a politician because of her refusal to pay her taxes, support for Mick Wallace when his tax affairs would have lead any moral person to resign his position, her fraudulent expenses claims, her complete disregard for the safety of passengers at Shannon Airport and the laws enforced to protect same... not to mention her utter lack of economics or reality.

Yup, that's misogynism at it's finest.

Oh,you mean a politician in the Dail with principles and not afraid to stand up against corrupt members of AGS,the bitch.
There will probably be more pillow talk between the Garda commissioner going through her files and the minister for justice to try and smear her after this.

Wish I could vote for her.

Jawgap · 16-04-2015 12:29PM

Deleted User wrote: »

"This is a question regarding a person who contacted you [Mr Kenny] last year and told you he had information on gardaí being present in a room when a civilian was shot by gardaí and of being ordered by his superiors to say he wasn't present," Ms Daly said. "I ask you to consider the fact that, in the past number of months, not one person from that review panel has contacted this person to ask him what murder this was, who was murdered and who was there.
"How in God's name can a review panel recommend anything if this is the type of shoddy investigation that is going on?"

At the very least - shouldn't this be followed up? Would you agree? Or do you think a claim like that is best ignored for a while?

Do you know it wasn't?

She's saying the 'witness' wasn't contacted - that doesn't mean it wasn't followed up.

Also is she saying this was an unsolved murder or a miscarriage of justice (as in someone was 'fitted up' for it and unjustly convicted)?

I think she made just enough of fuss to get a headline, but skimped on the detail that would allow the matter to be given proper consideration.

golfball37 · 16-04-2015 12:30PM

There's actually something wrong with a country that relies on someone like Clare Daly with all her faults to bring something of this magnitude into the public domain.

The fact no FF, FG or Lab td would be approached by the Gard asked to stay quiet for me is the real tragedy here. We have a culture of cover up and cronyism and no matter how its spun this place is a dump.

16-04-2015 12:30PM

Dog of Tears wrote: »

Outlandish claim from thick-as-sh;t politician using Dail privilege.

Yeah, sounds believable.

The claim is clearly not outlandish as Enda Kenny wasn't able or willing to contradict it, but rather mutter something about the investigation taking time.

Can you explain why you believe the claim to be outlandish?

golfball37 · 16-04-2015 12:32PM

Jawgap wrote: »

Do you know it wasn't?

She's saying the 'witness' wasn't contacted - that doesn't mean it wasn't followed up.

Also is she saying this was an unsolved murder or a miscarriage of justice (as in someone was 'fitted up' for it and unjustly convicted)?

I think she made just enough of fuss to get a headline, but skimped on the detail that would allow the matter to be given proper consideration.

Like the clean report into the penalty points scandal that failed to interview McCabe or Wilson... That was followed up too, just not properly.

ThisRegard · 16-04-2015 12:33PM

Carawaystick wrote: »

Enda Kenny clearly acknowledged the existence of the claim

I'm God. You have to acknowledge the existence of that claim as you just read it.

I didn't realise that acknowledging the existence of the claim made said claim valid.

16-04-2015 12:33PM

Jawgap wrote: »

Do you know it wasn't?

She's saying the 'witness' wasn't contacted - that doesn't mean it wasn't followed up.

"The Taoiseach responded that it was not for him to say why individuals had not been contacted.
He said the review panel had not concluded its work."

Have you actually read the story? Are you paying any attention at all?

How the hell do you follow up a witnesses claims without talking to them? This is like the penalty points saga all over again isn't it.

rocky911 · 16-04-2015 12:34PM

Deleted User wrote: »

The claim is clearly not outlandish as Enda Kenny wasn't able or willing to contradict it, but rather mutter something about the investigation taking time.

Can you explain why you believe the claim to be outlandish?

No one knows the details that this thing.. for all we know the claim " was in the room when a civilian was shot by a member of Gardai " could have been a fella playing GTA in a canteen but without information to supporth Daly's claim if she told me the sky was blue I'd look first.

bjork · 16-04-2015 12:35PM

Dog of Tears wrote: »

Outlandish claim from thick-as-sh;t politician using Dail privilege.

Yeah, sounds believable.

I wouldn't be too shocked if it trued out to be true

Autonomous Cowherd · 16-04-2015 12:35PM

Surely the claim by another garda (if i am correct....it was a garda who made the claim) to have been present at the murder of a civilian by another garda and then told to keep quiet, should have been rushed to the TOP of the review procedure and not kept in line like Dame Enda excuses it, to be answered in ''due course'' (or whatever other mincing, evasive reply he gave...). Because if it is true it is subversion of state power of the highest degree and should have shattering consequences for the political classes. Including for Enda and his cronies who are ...ahem..''in charge''.

rocky911 · 16-04-2015 12:36PM

golfball37 wrote: »

Like the clean report into the penalty points scandal that failed to interview McCabe or Wilson... That was followed up too, just not properly.

Whatever about McCabe I do think to an extent he has a genuine wish to change the force..Wilson has a vendetta and an axe to grind..its pure personal from him IMO

ThisRegard · 16-04-2015 12:38PM

tipptom wrote: »

Oh,you mean a politician in the Dail with principles

I've had her as a local rep for years. Your view of her, and reality, are a world apart.

Jawgap · 16-04-2015 12:38PM

Deleted User wrote: »

"The Taoiseach responded that it was not for him to say why individuals had not been contacted.
He said the review panel had not concluded its work."

Have you actually read the story? Are you paying any attention at all?

How the hell do you follow up a witnesses claims without talking to them? This is like the penalty points saga all over again isn't it.

An alleged murder is the equivalent of the penalty points scandal?

The Taoiseach (nor any TD, I'll bet) is not a trained investigator - therefore they would lack the expertise to pass judgment on whether the timing of an interview of a witness is appropriate or not in the context of any given investigation.

Sometimes you want to 'line up your ducks' before speaking to a witness, particularly if they are being used to corroborate a timeline or series of events.

galljga1 · 16-04-2015 12:40PM

bjork wrote: »

and their superiors told them to keep stum.

Gardaí helped cover up the murder of a civilian by a member of the force, it has been claimed.

Using Dáil privilege, independent TD Clare Daly said that an officer witnessed a colleague shooting a member of the public but was told by senior officers to say he was not present during the incident

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/daly-garda-carried-out-murder-but-force-helped-cover-it-up-31147049.html

Is the darker side of the GS going to be uncovered? Forget speeding tickets; this is where it's going down.

Would you cover for a colleague if he'd done same in your work place?

Cracking good job, Gromit

Autonomous Cowherd · 16-04-2015 12:42PM

Did the review committee say ''Oh lads, look, here's another one of those ''I was in the room when a garda shot a civilian and i was told to shut up'' claims. File it alphabetically Joe and we'll get round to it when we get a minute.'' ?

bjork · 16-04-2015 12:42PM

Song for the thread

Some Gardai were present at a murder

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