Ukraine: As it happens.

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Shaun Walker? Wasn't he the one along with a Telegraph journalist who "witnessed" a Russian "invasion" last August?
The next day (Aug 15th) Porky announced that this invasion of Russian armour had been destroyed but apparently theres absolutely no photographic evidence of any invasion or burning Russian armour! (think of what a propaganda coup that would have been!)

Well you tell us, with evidence and links please.

Also you should realise that the day of the 'big lie' are over.

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”
Joseph Goebbels

You should realise that in the age of the internet the lie cannot be maintained for very long at all. Tell Vlad that the game is up.

Egginacup wrote: »

Didn't NATO yank Kosovo away from Yugoslavia without even bothering with a vote?

You're just setting yourself up to look foolish and hypocritical.

So you are saying that the Crimeans voted to rejoin Russia against their will? Is that what you're trying to say?

They didn't like any of the choices yet came out en masse to vote. Are Crimeans that dumb that they would just vote without knowing that they were voting for something that they disagreed with? Why wouldn't they all just stay at home.....you know abstain? And where's the popular resistance movement to Russian occupation?

Kosovo had an Albanian majority who wanted independence during the Yugoslav wars.

Ukraine wasn't actively discriminating against Crimean Tartars, unlike the Serbs discriminating against Croats, Bosnians and Albanians. You're the one arguing for the West to take action against countries with poor human rights records, yet now you make the argument that the West intervening in humanitarian adventures is the same as imperialist ambitions? It is a false equivalency to compare them, stop clutching at straws.

No, that's not what I'm saying, so stop interjecting it. I've already stated that I support Crimea's right to join Russia, it should, however, be done under the watchful eyes of the UN, and "little green men" shouldn't be hanging around polling booths for it.

How on earth is abstaining the same as voting? All it does is give individual votes (for or against) more power. Stop reading Russell Brand's shítrag-books. They are not applicable for grown up debates.

Russia TV networks were asked where a 10 year old girl died in shelling admit they had to air it and it never happened. From actual Russian journalists.

robindch wrote: »

Over one hundred UN member states recognize Kosovo as an independent state. Russia's position is splendidly hypocritical - on the one hand, it still doesn't recognize Kosovo as an independent state, but nonetheless, it uses the example of Kosovo to legitimize its invasion, fraudulent referendum and subsequent theft of now-occupied Crimea.

And that is why Ukraine won't be getting Crimea back. Ukraine can barely afford to stop the eastern separatists from advancing, so the likelihood of Ukraine taking Crimea is null and void. Russia also reserves the right to use nuclear forces if the "existence of the state is threatened". It's a thin pretext, but Russians feel that Crimea (and Ukraine) is theirs, so any breach of their borders (recognized or not) isn't likely to end well.

Egginacup wrote: »

Where was the referendum over Kosovo and why weren't all Yugoslavs considered? Why just pull Kosovo away without the consent of any and then complain that Russia has torn away Crimea (albeit with the consent of ALL Crimeans) without the consent of Ukraine?

If Kosovars were so in danger of their lives from the blood-thirsty Serbs that NATO had to tear the country away and put it under a Western military mandate, then what is your problem with Russia providing a vote for protection from a junta in Kiev that has already murdered 1000's in Russian ethnic areas of Ukraine.

Surely if the usurpation of Kosovo was to protect a beleagured people then you must also respect the Russian maintenance of a Crimean protectorate.

First of all the Ukrainians never went into Crimea and began ethnically cleansing Russians so already its a completely different scenario.

Secondly having a nationwide referendum is pointless. If a referendum in Crimea had been held with no Russian interference ,unlike the one that was held, and Crimeans voted to secede then no one would have had a problem. There wouldn't have been reason to. And if the Ukrainians had complained or attempted to block it they would have found themselves under international pressure and criticism.

More Russian aggression, if I was an Eastern European country, id be trying very hard to get my hands on some heavy or even nuclear weaponry to keep auld Ivan away.