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The...and where did that come from

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭Undergod


    There's a strange little book I read once a while ago, called "Great Mambo Chicken and the Transhuman Condition". It was about all kinds of people who were into crazy science and ambitious projects, and part of that included people who were into longevity. One particular group were formed around the idea that they wanted to observe the decay of the last proton in the universe.

    Protons have a half-life of like 10^30 years or something. They were planning on being around for far longer than, to see the last one break apart.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,609 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    Undergod wrote: »
    There's a strange little book I read once a while ago, called "Great Mambo Chicken and the Transhuman Condition".
    Here's me thinking I'd die being the only person I know who read that book. :p

    Read it just for the name alone. Funky stuff.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1 Guesticles


    In conscious thought, The incomprehensible nothingness of being dead kind of scares me, It's like fear of the dark. People don't actually fear the dark, they fear what could be in it. In a similar way, I think people are afraid of not knowing what being dead is like. Before you correct me on that, I know you know that it's simply not having any level of thought or experience, but your human mind can't imagine what this nothingness is like, because you've never encountered anything like it. Just like the way you can't imagine a new colour outside the spectrum of light visible to humans. Anyway, back to the whole death thing I fear it both instinctually and consciously, despite the fact that I know not being alive won't be good or bad when the time comes.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,438 ✭✭✭TwoShedsJackson


    “I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.”

    ― Mark Twain


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭vibe666


    yep, that was totally worth dragging up a thread from 5 years ago to copy/paste your first post. bravo!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    We don't know therefore nothing can be ruled out.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭Brian Shanahan


    So here it is... Where did we all come from?

    We don't know, but if science is allowed to develop we may find out. A better answer than the religions will ever be able to give (without throwing out every aspect of their religion).
    Either that or the Dean of Pentacles randomly wiggled his fingers in disorganised firmament in a very stupid act. Lucky we didn't end up a universe of infinite deckchairs. Take your pick.
    We don't know therefore nothing can be ruled out.

    Postmodernist Bovine Excrement. The impossible can be ruled out. What does not agree with known evidence can be ruled out (technically only provisionally, but it is extremely rare that new evidence comes out which allows previously disallowed theories back in). Random imaginings can be ruled out. What cannot be evidenced can be ruled out.

    Every single human concept of god falls foul of these four categories (of which there are more if I wanted to think about it seriously) and therefore they can validly, conclusively and truthfully be ruled out. If they can't then Russel's teapot, the ten sided triangle and the invisible pink unicorn must also be true, given your statement.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    Its quite probable that we humans will create life with its own universe to live in. I am of course talking about AI. If such an achievement were to happen, we could not say that the creation of life is impossible. Therefore, we could not rule out the possibility that we were created.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,913 ✭✭✭Absolam


    we could not say that the creation of life is impossible. Therefore, we could not rule out the possibility that we were created.
    Saying that the creation of life is possible is different from saying it's possible our lives were created?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭Brian Shanahan


    Its quite probable that we humans will create life with its own universe to live in. I am of course talking about AI. If such an achievement were to happen, we could not say that the creation of life is impossible. Therefore, we could not rule out the possibility that we were created.

    You're still talking postmodernist bovine excrement. We know life can be created, because we exist. It is simply the ascribing of said creation to an entity called god is the bit where impossibility creeps in, because said entity is the impossibility.

    I know it is hard for you to accept reality, but please for our sakes do try.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    In a nutshell what I'm saying is: If we can create life, then it is possible to create life.

    I'm not suggesting that we were created, I'm just saying that it's a possibility. This theory would get a bit more traction if we were to create genuine, self aware A.I.

    On the subject of creating A.I.... If such an event were to happen, the creator of that A.I. would, for all intents and purposes, be a God. Its worth noting that this person / persons would not fit the model of the Christian God or any other God for that matter. I don't think the inventors of A.I. would want to be worshiped by their creations for example.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    You're still talking postmodernist bovine excrement.

    Not helpful to discussion.
    We know life can be created, because we exist. It is simply the ascribing of said creation to an entity called god is the bit where impossibility creeps in, because said entity is the impossibility.

    I know it is hard for you to accept reality, but please for our sakes do try.

    How is a God / superior entity an impossibility? Have you been to every corner of the universe to come to that conclusion?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,913 ✭✭✭Absolam


    In a nutshell what I'm saying is: If we can create life, then it is possible to create life.
    Which is not to say that any life has been created; only that some life could be. Which is a proposition that pertains without us ever creating life anyway.
    On the subject of creating A.I.... If such an event were to happen, the creator of that A.I. would, for all intents and purposes, be a God.
    Surely not for all intents and purposes; for a fairly limited and specific set of intents and purposes.
    Its worth noting that this person / persons would not fit the model of the Christian God or any other God for that matter.
    Why not? Is there a particular reason they couldn't?
    I don't think the inventors of A.I. would want to be worshiped by their creations for example.
    Unless they created them specifically for that purpose? In which case that would be all that they want from their creations.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    Absolam wrote: »
    Which is not to say that any life has been created; only that some life could be. Which is a proposition that pertains without us ever creating life anyway.

    So we agree that life could be created. Would you agree that humans/our universe could have been created? However unlikely, is it a possibility?
    Absolam wrote: »
    Surely not for all intents and purposes; for a fairly limited and specific set of intents and purposes.
    Absolam wrote: »
    Why not? Is there a particular reason they couldn't?
    Absolam wrote: »
    Unless they created them specifically for that purpose? In which case that would be all that they want from their creations.

    I would agree that if there was a God, it could be a horrible God. But that is one possibility. It could just as easily be nice. The point being that "God" doesn't have to be the one the church speak of.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    The idea of one form of life creating another wouldnt be outside of the realms of possibility. It could be possible that humans were created or adapted from some other form of life but I wouldn't live my life assuming this to be correct or worship the creators, that would be as stupid as quitting my job and starting a few lines of cocaine with a few hookers because I might win the euromillions tomorrow.

    I would give that a higher probability of happening when compared to a God who cares more about what you do with your genitals than helping people.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,913 ✭✭✭Absolam


    So we agree that life could be created. Would you agree that humans/our universe could have been created? However unlikely, is it a possibility?
    Ah; now you're moving out of the realms of possibility and into the realms of probability. Anything is possible in an infinite universe, but when you're talking about something specific (like humans) then the other specifics come into play, and there are no specifics we're currently aware of that indicate humans may have been created by another entity. It's possible that all of humanity simply popped into existence when I imagined this conversation, but it's so improbable and unprovable that there hardly seems any point in discussing it...
    I would agree that if there was a God, it could be a horrible God. But that is one possibility. It could just as easily be nice. The point being that "God" doesn't have to be the one the church speak of.
    No, the point was that it would not be the one the churches speak of. It won't be and it doesn't have to be are two entirely different things.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    Holy **** your totally twisting my words. I never mentioned "probable" I specifically mentioned "possible however unlikely". Thanks for linking to that post I thought it was pretty obvious I had modified my view.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,913 ✭✭✭Absolam


    Holy **** your totally twisting my words. I never mentioned "probable" I specifically mentioned "possible however unlikely".
    I think you're missing my point then; I'm not twisting your words, I'm pointing that if you accept the universe is infinite then anything is possible, making 'is it possible' a fairly redundant discussion. If however you're discussing things that are unlikely, then you're considering their probability rather than their possibility, in which case you have to consider the evidence that is (and isn't) available.
    Thanks for linking to that post I thought it was pretty obvious I had modified my view.
    It was pretty obvious that what you had said was the point was not what you were then saying was the point; I was simply pointing that out. If you were modifying your view it probably would have been clearer to say you were abandoning your point in favour of a new one :-)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 390 ✭✭sephir0th


    Zillah wrote: »
    We don't know.



    Right there in that devastating, elegant and simple little sentence is the true heart of the divide between the sceptical and the religious. Some of us have come to terms with the limitations of human understanding, others cannot. I accept the above without assumption that it is temporary or escapable. I concede that there is, hypothetically, a chance that in the future humanity may some how come to understand the very nature of existence, but I doubt it. I have completely accepted that it may come to pass that no human mind will ever conceive of the true nature of reality.

    Pity, but I'm over it. And I will regard with nothing but scorn and derision those who invent fanstastical palaces of sophistry and preposterous rhetoric in a futile attempt to escape those three beautiful and terrible words. We don't know.

    I found this post in my bookmarks back from 2010. One of my fav posts after years on the forum.


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