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Atheism/Existence of God Debates (Part 2)

1…8687899192…141

Comments

  • #2642
    RikuoAmero
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭RikuoAmero


    Cen taurus wrote: »
    You mean the people that pretended to be Christian for the purposes of power, while doing the exact opposite to every Christian teaching.

    No True Scotsman fallacy right there. There is no consensus on what exactly counts as Christian teaching, so any time I or anyone else points at a person who declares themselves to be Christian who has done something bad, you can just wave it away by saying "Nope, he didn't follow Christian teaching". If you, a person opposed to slavery, were to somehow travel back in time to the height of the international slave trade and talk with the slavers and get into a theological debate with them, they'd accuse you of being crazy for thinking that slaves ought to go free. They'd whip out bible passages supporting slavery and point to their pastors and ministers who promote it.


  • #2643
    jaffusmax
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,604 ✭✭✭jaffusmax


    Cen taurus wrote: »
    You mean the people that pretended to be Christian for the purposes of power, while doing the exact opposite to every Christian teaching.

    But many did exactly what Jesus preached and in his name did it with great zeal

    Matthew 10:34–36



    Not Peace, but a Sword
    34 r“Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. sI have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 rFor I have come tto set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 uAnd a person’s enemies will be those of his own household


  • #2644
    Cen taurus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 476 ✭✭Cen taurus


    jaffusmax wrote: »
    But many did exactly what Jesus preached and in his name did it with great zeal

    Matthew 10:34–36



    Not Peace, but a Sword
    34 r“Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. sI have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 rFor I have come tto set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 uAnd a person’s enemies will be those of his own household

    That's correct, and it still goes on.
    Many's a relative turned their Christian relative over to be murdered for their faith.


  • #2645
    RikuoAmero
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭RikuoAmero


    jaffusmax wrote: »
    But many did exactly what Jesus preached and in his name did it with great zeal

    Matthew 10:34–36



    Not Peace, but a Sword
    34 r“Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. sI have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 rFor I have come tto set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 uAnd a person’s enemies will be those of his own household

    You don't get it do you? What you say Jesus meant doesn't matter. We have to listen to what Cen Taurus says is what Jesus meant. Cen Taurus somehow has a direct line to God and can tell us what God means by these passages. If someone from the past wrote down that these passages mean that Jesus is a war monger, don't listen to them. Listen to God's Prophet, Cen Taurus, who'll tell you that the sword means the Gospel.

    In case you feel insulted Cen, the only way your interpretation of bible passages can objectively mean something more than what anyone else has ever said is if you are God's Prophet. Problem here is of course that anyone can claim to be such a prophet and there's no way to decide which of you is telling the truth.


  • #2646
    RikuoAmero
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭RikuoAmero


    Many's a relative turned their Christian relative over to be murdered for their faith.

    With the implication being of course no true Christian would ever do the same, am I right?


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  • #2647
    jaffusmax
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,604 ✭✭✭jaffusmax


    Cen taurus wrote: »
    That's correct, and it still goes on.
    Many's a relative turned their Christian relative over to be murdered for their faith.

    Or more likely what is being said is you are either with us or against us!


  • #2648
    Cen taurus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 476 ✭✭Cen taurus


    RikuoAmero wrote: »
    With the implication being of course no true Christian would ever do the same, am I right?

    No one who actually follows Christ's teachings no. They are quite clear on the subject.


  • #2649
    jaffusmax
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,604 ✭✭✭jaffusmax


    RikuoAmero wrote: »
    You don't get it do you? What you say Jesus meant doesn't matter. We have to listen to what Cen Taurus says is what Jesus meant. Cen Taurus somehow has a direct line to God and can tell us what God means by these passages. If someone from the past wrote down that these passages mean that Jesus is a war monger, don't listen to them. Listen to God's Prophet, Cen Taurus, who'll tell you that the sword means the Gospel.

    In case you feel insulted Cen, the only way your interpretation of bible passages can objectively mean something more than what anyone else has ever said is if you are God's Prophet. Problem here is of course that anyone can claim to be such a prophet and there's no way to decide which of you is telling the truth.

    Its best to leave symbols to the symbol minded!


  • #2650
    Cen taurus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 476 ✭✭Cen taurus


    RikuoAmero wrote: »
    You don't get it do you? What you say Jesus meant doesn't matter. We have to listen to what Cen Taurus says is what Jesus meant. Cen Taurus somehow has a direct line to God and can tell us what God means by these passages. If someone from the past wrote down that these passages mean that Jesus is a war monger, don't listen to them. Listen to God's Prophet, Cen Taurus, who'll tell you that the sword means the Gospel.

    In case you feel insulted Cen, the only way your interpretation of bible passages can objectively mean something more than what anyone else has ever said is if you are God's Prophet. Problem here is of course that anyone can claim to be such a prophet and there's no way to decide which of you is telling the truth.

    Yes, much better to follow only the interpretations preached by the haters of Christianity.


  • #2651
    jaffusmax
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,604 ✭✭✭jaffusmax


    Cen taurus wrote: »
    No one who actually follows Christ's teachings no. They are quite clear on the subject.

    Not really as the God of Christ is a confirmed advocate of Genocide. Does Christ follow a different view on such things as God, although according to the Trinity he is also God by proxy?


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  • #2652
    jaffusmax
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,604 ✭✭✭jaffusmax


    Cen taurus wrote: »
    Yes, much better to follow only the interpretations preached by the haters of Christianity.

    Many hate Christianity as much as you can hate the Easter Bunny, Thor, Zeus or Santa!

    When they say Santa has a naughty and nice list, its best not to read to much into it!


  • #2653
    RikuoAmero
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭RikuoAmero


    Cen taurus wrote: »
    No one who actually follows Christ's teachings no. They are quite clear on the subject.

    And you don't see this as a no true scotsman? You don't see this as shifting the goalposts? You don't see this as a failure of definition?


  • #2654
    Cen taurus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 476 ✭✭Cen taurus


    jaffusmax wrote: »
    Not really as the God of Christ is a confirmed advocate of Genocide. Does Christ follow a different view on such things as God, although according to the Trinity he is also God by proxy?

    The old and new testaments, and God the Father and Son are clear.
    The penalty, consequences, wages and results of sin, was, is, and always will be death. Physical and worse spiritual for all eternity. Yet the old and new testament show man repeating this mistake over and over again. Christ offers mankind freedom from this endless cycle of sin and death.


  • #2655
    Cen taurus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 476 ✭✭Cen taurus


    RikuoAmero wrote: »
    And you don't see this as a no true scotsman? You don't see this as shifting the goalposts? You don't see this as a failure of definition?

    Christ's commands are clear, you love one another, you don't kill.


  • #2656
    jaffusmax
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,604 ✭✭✭jaffusmax


    Cen taurus wrote: »
    The old and new testaments, and God the Father and Son are clear.
    The penalty, consequences, wages and results of sin, was, is, and always will be death. Physical and worse spiritual for all eternity. Yet the old and new testament show man repeating this mistake over and over again. Christ offers mankind freedom from this endless cycle of sin and death.

    And your stance on God advocating Genocide of the Amalakites, does it sit easy with you?


  • #2657
    jaffusmax
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,604 ✭✭✭jaffusmax


    Cen taurus wrote: »
    Christ's commands are clear, you love one another, you don't kill.

    God commands Genocide 1 Samuel 15 OT


  • #2658
    Cen taurus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 476 ✭✭Cen taurus


    jaffusmax wrote: »
    God commands Genocide

    Unlike state atheism, God is the real judge and jury.
    The penalty for sin is death, always has been, always will be.


  • #2659
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,192 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    jaffusmax wrote: »
    Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Most inclusively, atheism is the absence of belief that any deities exist.

    Atheism is not anti (anything)! You willl find most self professed "atheist" states replaced God with another form of religion the cult of personality! Atheists due not worship Dear Leaders

    I'd say rebutting every bit of that post of cen taurus's with "strawman" would have worked just as well.


  • #2660
    Cen taurus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 476 ✭✭Cen taurus


    jaffusmax wrote: »
    And your stance on God advocating Genocide of the Amalakites, does it sit easy with you?

    God gave them 400 years to change their ways. They didn't.


  • #2661
    jaffusmax
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,604 ✭✭✭jaffusmax


    Cen taurus wrote: »
    Unlike state atheism, God is the real judge and jury.
    The penalty for sin is death, always has been, always will be.

    God commanding Killing babies whom have not had a chance to commit a sin is ok?


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  • #2662
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,192 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Cen taurus wrote: »
    God gave them 400 years to change their ways. They didn't.

    And he gave the Yazidis 1400 years to change their ways before setting al-Baghdadi on them. :rolleyes:


  • #2663
    RikuoAmero
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭RikuoAmero


    Cen taurus wrote: »
    Unlike state atheism, God is the real judge and jury.
    The penalty for sin is death, always has been, always will be.

    So tell me...ever masturbated? Or had sex outside marriage, or violated the Ten Commandments?
    Don't bother answering, I already know the answer is yes. After all...you're human. We're all sinners (or so I hear from your camp all the time).
    So when should I pop around to kill you? How would you like it done? Bullet to the head? Axe? Strangulation? Do you want me to make it as messy as possible or try to be tidy?

    I'm also not comfortable with an invisible, immaterial, inaudible being supposedly deciding my guilt, and having these judgements passed on through certain members of the priest class.


  • #2664
    Cen taurus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 476 ✭✭Cen taurus


    jaffusmax wrote: »
    God commanding Killing babies whom have not had a chance to commit a sin is ok?

    They were saved from eternal damnation, unlike where they were heading as the adults.


  • #2665
    Cen taurus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 476 ✭✭Cen taurus


    RikuoAmero wrote: »
    So when should I pop around to kill you? How would you like it done? Bullet to the head? Axe? Strangulation? Do you want me to make it as messy as possible or try to be tidy?

    Whatever floats your atheist boat, but I doubt threating physical violence to others on an internet forum is very legal.


  • #2666
    RikuoAmero
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭RikuoAmero


    Cen taurus wrote: »
    They were saved from eternal damnation, unlike where they were heading as the adults.

    THANK YOU WILLIAM LANE CRAIG!


    When you advocate for the slaughter of children, that is when in my book, you have forfeited all rights to be taken seriously.
    That is who you sound like. I despise Craig and I despise you for saying that. Both you and he are monsters for saying so.

    Tell me...have you noticed a contradiction yet in what you've said there and in what you've said in the past?


  • #2667
    RikuoAmero
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭RikuoAmero


    Cen taurus wrote: »
    Whatever floats your atheist boat, but I doubt threating physical violence to others on an internet forum is very legal.

    Anyone with two brain cells would know that I wasn't being serious. I was parodying you, by pretending to take you at your word. What I did there was just like what happens in this clip from the West Wing


    There the exact same exchange plays out. The Prez asks if he's obligated to shoot his staff members for working on the Sabbath (which is a 10 Commandment if you recall, not just one of those silly Old Testament rules that jettisoned)


  • #2668
    Cen taurus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 476 ✭✭Cen taurus


    RikuoAmero wrote: »
    That is who you sound like. I despise Craig and I despise you for saying that. Both you and he are monsters for saying so.
    RikuoAmero wrote: »
    So when should I pop around to kill you? How would you like it done? Bullet to the head? Axe? Strangulation? Do you want me to make it as messy as possible or try to be tidy?

    Yet it's ok for you to issue physical threats about killing me.
    I think it's time the Gardaí were called by someone to be honest.


  • #2669
    Cen taurus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 476 ✭✭Cen taurus


    RikuoAmero wrote: »
    Anyone with two brain cells would know that I wasn't being serious. I was parodying you, by pretending to take you at your word.

    You can make your excuses to the authorities, they hear that excuse all the time.


  • #2670
    jaffusmax
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,604 ✭✭✭jaffusmax


    Cen taurus wrote: »
    They were saved from eternal damnation, unlike where they were heading as the adults.

    So murdering babies to save them from eternal damnation is a Christian thing to believe is ok?
    Also I am curious to at what point would an innocent child become culpable for whatever it was that annoyed God 400 years before its birth?

    Sounds all very psychopath, vengeful and evil of god!


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  • #2671
    RikuoAmero
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭RikuoAmero


    Given that I have no idea who you are, no idea where you are, and have absolutely no ability or desire to find out, it wouldn't take long for a complaint from you to the Gardai to get thrown out of court. Yes, I admit, I did go a bit graphic in what I said, perhaps I could have said it a bit differently, but the meaning is clear.
    I was pointing out your hypocrisy, in that you claim committing sin merits death, and yet, you're not in a big hurry to die, so of course I pretended to offer you a helping hand there.
    It would take someone with extremely thin skin to try and pretend that s/he actually felt threatened by that.


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