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Execution of the 'Bali Nine' "ringleaders" imminent

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Comments

  • #62
    Wolf Club
    Closed Accounts Posts: 417 ✭✭Wolf Club


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    Knocking out a few bottles of poitin which isnt legal isnt the same of being in posession of £3m of heroin, not even in the same ball park

    I realise that, and don't get me wrong, I do think these lads deserve to spend 10+ years in prison for the crimes they've committed. I was just wondering, if the poster would give the death penalty for this incident, what sort of punishment he would give for minor offenses like the above.


  • #63
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,365 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Amazingfun wrote: »
    I thought that was clear by now: yes I have a big problem with them having served 10 years prior to execution. Why? Because they didn't know they had that to serve, instead they were instructed (as the law allows) that were they to demonstrate remorse/rehabilitation their chances of having that sentence reduced to life were very good.
    My biggest objection is that they have lived this whole time with the very real fear that at any moment they could be marked for death. Try and imagine the sheer terror they've endured....and then imagine what internal fortitude and character it took to do the good works they've done since. They have shown themselves to be remarkable people and so to now execute such men is an act of great cruelty.

    given the scale of the drug trafficking involved any hope of having the sentence commuted would have been very slim if not non-existent. What they have done since sentence does not change what they were convicted of. I'm afraid i dont hold them in the high esteem you seem to do.


  • #64
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,967 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    well what ever but high taxing it. hasnt solved the problem and there will always be an illegal trade in it to avoid customs and excise.... I stand corrected on the misuse of the world legalised :o

    Your essential point still remains though, in that the argument of legalising drugs will get rid of illegal drug dealers is fallacious.

    They will simply undercut the commercial price, as is done with cigarettes.


  • #65
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    Meh I dont think Industry would like it so much and I wouldnt like to live next to drug users. It would cause a lot of social problems. There are a lot of pluses to having no drugs and then have the health care system pick up these slap heads. In France a drug posession conviction bars you from more or less everything.

    There was a young lad at home who got 3 months in Prison on the Joy for dealing. In fairness he got warned several times by the guards to cease and decist in the local pub and rubbed up the publicans wife he wrong way. When he came out of prison his porters job was gone at the hospital and he couldnt get a job. He had it all sorted and he still didnt have enough. no sympathy


  • #66
    Amazingfun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,161 ✭✭✭Amazingfun


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    given the scale of the drug trafficking involved any hope of having the sentence commuted would have been very slim if not non-existent. What they have done since sentence does not change what they were convicted of. I'm afraid i dont hold them in the high esteem you seem to do.

    Based on what? Others have had their sentences reduced and there was a long period before this President took office where no one was executed at all. This is a political act not a just one.


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  • #67
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,365 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Amazingfun wrote: »
    Based on what? Others have had their sentences reduced and there was a long period before this President took office where no one was executed at all. This is a political act not a just one.

    based on the scale of what they were doing.


  • #68
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    Wolf Club wrote: »
    I realise that, and don't get me wrong, I do think these lads deserve to spend 10+ years in prison for the crimes they've committed. I was just wondering, if the poster would give the death penalty for this incident, what sort of punishment he would give for minor offenses like the above.

    There is only one thing worse than death and that is waiting for something that may or maynot happen while you are wasting your life away. That would be the tooughest part for me. waiting for death while fulfilling a useless life


  • #69
    Amazingfun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,161 ✭✭✭Amazingfun


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    based on the scale of what they were doing.
    Oh please. Many of the 'Bali Bombers'....those who've murdered innocents....have long since walked free. It's most certainly not based on "what they've done" and as already pointed out others have had their sentences reduced but under a different President.


  • #70
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,365 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Amazingfun wrote: »
    Oh please. Many of the 'Bali Bombers'....those who've murdered innocents....have long since walked free. It's most certainly not based on "what they've done" and as already pointed out others have had their sentences reduced but under a different President.

    well that just makes them unlucky drug traffickers doesnt it.


  • #71
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    Tony EH wrote: »
    Your essential point still remains though, in that the argument of legalising drugs will get rid of illegal drug dealers is fallacious.

    They will simply undercut the commercial price, as is done with cigarettes.

    Actually I have no agenda on legalising drugs. My preffered options would be harder, longer stiffer sentences and less of these nice prison with TVs and three square meals stuff. how about re-opening spike island and having a prison out on Achill island and for labour digging gravel. I hate the stuff. I lived with a pot smoker and you couldn't leave your room unlocked or your wallet down


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  • #72
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,365 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Amazingfun wrote: »
    Oh please. Many of the 'Bali Bombers'....those who've murdered innocents....have long since walked free. It's most certainly not based on "what they've done" and as already pointed out others have had their sentences reduced but under a different President.

    My last reply was a bit flippant but this one isnt.

    Yes it is "what they've done". the sentence for drug trafficking in that country is death. the fact that other people have had sentences commuted is not a guarantee that their sentence will be commuted. the sentences for the bali bombers is not relevant. how they managed to escape the death penalty is beyond me.


  • #73
    endacl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,443 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Wacker The Attacker wrote: »
    Its difficult to have sympathy for Drug Dealers.

    Less difficult to have sympathy for people though. No matter the crime, it's only one aspect of the whole person.

    Very easy to have sympathy for their distraught families. The death penalty is an abhorrent aberration in the modern world.


  • #74
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    I hate the stuff. I lived with a pot smoker and you could leave your room unlocked or your wallet down

    Sounds like a decent sort.


  • #75
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Tony EH wrote: »
    Your essential point still remains though, in that the argument of legalising drugs will get rid of illegal drug dealers is fallacious.

    They will simply undercut the commercial price, as is done with cigarettes.
    It's just not going to happen, a legitimate business will wipe the floor with small time illegal grow ops or imports. A criminal organisation that has to find a location, retrofit it and then more than likely dump all it's equipement every time the grow is finished can't compete with a company that can grow commercially. It's physically and financially impossible for them to compete. Low production is more expensive than mass production, that's a fact in every industry.
    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    I hate the stuff. I lived with a pot smoker and you could leave your room unlocked or your wallet down
    So you had a bad experience with one asshole and have decided to tar everyone else? Did he have brown hair too, do you hate people with brown hair?


  • #76
    Amazingfun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,161 ✭✭✭Amazingfun


    ON BEHALF OF HIS AUSTRALIAN MATES, Indonesian President Joko Widodo's son, Gibran Rakabuming Raka, has again begged his father to spare the lives of Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran.

    Relations between Australia and Indonesia are not good at the moment. Maybe a plea from his own son might help.

    https://independentaustralia.net/life/life-display/joko-widodos-son-begs-him-to-spare-lives-of-chan-and-sukumaran,7443


  • #77
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    ScumLord wrote: »
    Did he have brown hair too, do you hate people with brown hair?

    http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/scoobydoomysteryincorporated/images/d/d2/Shaggy_Mystery_Inc.gif/revision/latest?cb=20130419231203


  • #78
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,967 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    ScumLord wrote: »
    It's just not going to happen, a legitimate business will wipe the floor with small time illegal grow ops or imports. A criminal organisation that has to find a location, retrofit it and then more than likely dump all it's equipement every time the grow is finished can't compete with a company that can grow commercially. It's physically and financially impossible for them to compete. Low production is more expensive than mass production, that's a fact in every industry.

    Illegal markets will always be there. If the cost of the legal "product" is too high (whatever too high means to a specific person at a specific time), the illegal market place will take over.

    In the case of heroin, which destroys the users life and drains their funds very quickly, the legal source will be priced out by the cheaper illegal source.

    It's pure fantasy to say an illegal market will be wiped out, especially when the evidence provided by the black market in cigarettes is so apparent.


  • #79
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    Actually I have no agenda on legalising drugs. My preffered options would be harder, longer stiffer sentences and less of these nice prison with TVs and three square meals stuff. how about re-opening spike island and having a prison out on Achill island and for labour digging gravel. I hate the stuff. I lived with a pot smoker and you could leave your room unlocked or your wallet down

    Aye a prison on Achill will do wonders for the tourist trade out there.

    I agree prisons are soft and I'd also agree with tougher rules on illegal drugs, provided that marijuana was legalised within a sustainable system.

    I enjoy a little puff from time to time, better watch out! Don't put your phone down!


  • #80
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Tony EH wrote: »
    Illegal markets will always be there. If the cost of the legal "product" is too high (whatever too high means to a specific person at a specific time), the illegal market place will take over.

    In the case of heroin, which destroys the users life and drains their funds very quickly, the legal source will be priced out by the cheaper illegal source.

    It's pure fantasy to say an illegal market will be wiped out, especially when the evidence provided by the black market in cigarettes is so apparent.
    There's a big difference between the black market in cigarettes and drugs. Illegal cigarettes are coming from legitimate companies, they're just being imported from countries with lower taxes. There is no real competition between the big cigarettes companies and people making cigarettes in their kitchen.

    Drugs have no legal alternative. The closest you can come to comparing illegal drugs to legal drugs is to compare the low production runs of craft beers to large scale commercial brewers like diageo, who can sell much cheaper than the small guys because they have mass production.

    The only reason black markets exist is either because you can't buy what you're after legally, or you can't afford to buy it legally. If legal cannabis sold in shops is cheaper or even just the same price as the illegal stuff nobody would buy on the black market. Why would you pay the same amount of money for a complete unknown off some scumbag when you can go to a legitimate shop and buy weed that could be traced back to the farmer who grew it?

    Large scale commercial production is a fraction of the cost of low volume production. That's just a fact of producing any product.


  • #81
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Hans Bricks wrote: »
    Never understood the massive blame on drug dealers. They're glorified middle men IMO.
    Supply & Demand. They wouldn't exist if so many people didn't want to piss their money away on recreational highs.

    Considering the sheer volumes of money to be made on it, you can't really blame a lot of people who chance the easy money.


    And killing people for it doesn't stop it.


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  • #82
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    mikom wrote: »
    Sounds like a decent sort.

    actually no he ended up dying in Limerick in circumstances no one will talk about except that it was "tragic", I suspect heroin was involved.


  • #83
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    Nodin wrote: »
    And killing people for it doesn't stop it.

    no but it does act as a great deterrant


  • #84
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    no but it does act as a great deterrant

    Evidently not.


  • #85
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    no but it does act as a great deterrant

    Could have fooled me.


  • #86
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    circadian wrote: »
    Aye a prison on Achill will do wonders for the tourist trade out there.

    Everyone is a NIMBY. No its like the Prison on Portlaoise and the Kclub. Just tuck it away discretely and no one will no or care. bring in valuable revenue to the area with all year round jobs.


  • #87
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    ScumLord wrote: »
    So you had a bad experience with one asshole and have decided to tar everyone else? Did he have brown hair too, do you hate people with brown hair?

    no he had black hair, I am ambivalent to people with brown hair. I dont see the relevence to the brown hair


  • #88
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    no he had black hair, I am ambivalent to people with brown hair. I dont see the relevence to the brown hair

    Have you ever had a bad experience with someone who was drinking alcohol?


  • #89
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    mikom wrote: »
    Have you ever had a bad experience with someone who was drinking alcohol?

    not to the extent that they robbed my room and were lazy good for nothings


  • #90
    Custardpi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭Custardpi


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    no but it does act as a great deterrant

    I think it's quite possible that harsh punishments, such as the death penalty could act as a factor in people's risk assessments of certain actions. However, other elements, such as the amount of money to be made & the risk of actually getting caught are assessed (rightly or wrongly) as being low then that may far outweigh other considerations for some people. In fact, having the death penalty in place for engaging in what can be a very lucrative trade may in fact increase the proportion of the most reckless & violent criminal types involved in drug dealing.


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  • #91
    RollieFingers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,645 ✭✭✭RollieFingers


    I smoke weed everyday, but still, it's hard to feel sympathy for these guys, anybody attempting to smuggle drugs in or out of Asia need their heads examined, we all know the consequences (which are harsh, but that's not the point).

    Don't do the crime if you can't do the time!


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