Execution of the 'Bali Nine' "ringleaders" imminent

Amazingfun

....and a host of others as well, mainly foreigners. I've searched Boards.ie and surprisingly can't see any other threads about it. It's quite sad given the pain and extra horror being placed upon the family and friends of these guys, especially given how much good they've apparently done during the past ten years they've served in "Hotel K" (Bali's notorious Kerobokan Prison), all the while waiting to hear when they will be shot to death:

Attorney General M. Prasetyo said on Tuesday that preparations for the executions of 10 death row convicts were nearly complete, with the convicts set to be transferred before the end of the week.

“We have only 5 percent left to prepare. This includes transferring the convicts to Nusakambangan,” he told reporters at the Attorney General’s Office (AGO) in South Jakarta, referring to the prison island where the first batch of drug-convict executions were held in January.

Previously, the AGO had planned for the death row convicts, including Bali Nine duo Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan, to be executed by the end of February. However, following several technical issues, such as a lack of space in the Nusakambangan Island prison, the AGO was forced to postpone.

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2015/03/04/death-row-convict-executions-imminent-attorney-general.html#sthash.WhmBcw5k.dpuf

If so moved, you can sign the MERCY campaign's letter here:

Mercy for Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran

Andrew and Myuran, two young Australians, face execution in Indonesia. They have admitted trying to traffic drugs to Australia. They have exhausted their appeals. All that can save them is clemency from Indonesia’s President, Joko Widodo. We ask you to help in respectfully seeking clemency.

http://mercycampaign.org/

Wacker The Attacker

Its difficult to have sympathy for Drug Dealers.

suicide_circus

Massive hypocrites

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/latenightlive/indonesias-execution-double-standard-explained/6225848

Banjo String

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

Its difficult to have sympathy for Drug Dealers.

Decent soundtrack helps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h77ngzK97zo

skooterblue2

if you cant do the Time dont do the crime. Hustlers wanting to make a quick buck.

The Backwards Man

Heroin smugglers in a country that executes heroin smugglers wouldn't exactly be at the top of the list of people that my heart bleeds for tbh.

Amazingfun

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

Its difficult to have sympathy for Drug Dealers.

I disagree. I think it's very easy to have compassion for these two when you take the time to learn what they've been at the past 10 years. It's as if psychological torture has been part of their sentence as well.

I've spent time in Asia and understand how crystal clear they make their drugs=death penalty policy, and I don't pity anyone who gambles with it, however these guys have been under a deathwait for 10 years now and have done a lot of good in that time. It just seems excessively cruel to kill them now.

Grayson

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

Its difficult to have sympathy for Drug Dealers.

From the article in the OP.

In Yogyakarta, a hearing began on Tuesday on the case review of death-row drug convict Mary Jane Fiesta Veloso of the Philippines at the Sleman District Court in Yogyakarta. Veloso’s lawyers argued that she had not been able to understand the trial that lead to her death sentence because she had been provided with an incompetent translator.

Veloso was arrested in Yogyakarta in April 25, 2010, in possession of 2.5 kilograms of heroin when she arrived on a flight from Kuala Lumpur. She is currently an inmate at the Wirogunan Penitentiary in Yogykarta.
- See more at: http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2015/03/04/death-row-convict-executions-imminent-attorney-general.html#sthash.WhmBcw5k.KU5UU1gn.dpuf

I've seen interviews with Filipino women who were arrested in other countries for drug smuggling. Most are extremely poor and uneducated. they're sucked into the life because they get offered a few thousand dollars which is life changing money for them.

Wolf Club

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

Its difficult to have sympathy for Drug Dealers.

Do you think their crimes warrant execution?

Amazingfun

The Brazilian man to be executed is apparently a schizophrenic:

Brazilian Rodrigo Gularte, a paranoid schizophrenic on Indonesia’s death row, still thinks he’s going home

http://www.news.com.au/world/brazilian-rodrigo-gularte-a-paranoid-schizophrenic-on-indonesias-death-row-still-thinks-hes-going-home/story-fndir2ev-1227233046420

I didn't focus much on the political aspect of these cases but there is a lot of animosity brewing between Indonesia and various other countries as a result of their actions in respect to these executions.

Wacker The Attacker

Amazingfun wrote: »

I disagree. I think it's very easy to have compassion for these two when you take the time to learn what they've been at the past 10 years. It's as if psychological torture has been part of their sentence as well.

I've spent time in Asia and understand how crystal clear they make their drugs=death penalty policy, and I don't pity anyone who gambles with it, however these guys have been under a deathwait for 10 years now and have done a lot of good in that time. It just seems excessively cruel to kill them now.

There you have it

Wacker The Attacker

Wolf Club wrote: »

Do you think their crimes warrant execution?

What I think is irrelevant.

It what the law dictates.

Amazingfun

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

There you have it

But that's not "it". They weren't executed asap. They've spent 10 years doing a lot of work to improve themselves and the lives of fellow prisoners. Have you taken the time to read about them at all?

jimgoose

Couldn't give a fiddlers.

nokia69

Wolf Club wrote: »

Do you think their crimes warrant execution?

well they knew the consequences when they planned to break the law

I wonder is the profit higher for drugs gangs in countries with the death penalty

hard but fair, if I had my way we would have the same laws here

Amazingfun

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

What I think is irrelevant.

It what the law dictates.

But the law allows for the President to commute their sentence to life.

Guy:Incognito

Amazingfun wrote: »

But that's not "it". They weren't executed asap. They've spent 10 years doing a lot of work to improve themselves and the lives of fellow prisoners. Have you taken the time to read about them at all?

So only apply the law to the ones that wallow during the time theyre there?

Amazingfun

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

So only apply the law to the ones that wallow during the time theyre there?

I think a demonstration of remorse and tangible evidence of rehabilitation ought to be considered when deciding who to execute, yes.

Hans Bricks

Never understood the massive blame on drug dealers. They're glorified middle men IMO.
Supply & Demand. They wouldn't exist if so many people didn't want to piss their money away on recreational highs.

Considering the sheer volumes of money to be made on it, you can't really blame a lot of people who chance the easy money.

Custardpi

Feel sorry for their families. One thing that is kind of sad though is the disproportionate amount of attention the two Aussies are getting, even in Europe. The case of Serge Atlaoui has received hardly any attention compared to the blanket coverage of Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran & yet would appear to be a very strong case as a miscarriage of justice, rather than the two Australians who were caught redhanded.

The Frenchman from Metz was employed as a welder to install & repair equipment in what he thought was an acrylics factory but it turned out to be an ecstasy factory. Even if his claims not to have known the true nature of the facility were false he still played a relatively minor part in the scheme & has very much been treated as a scapegoat following a flawed trial.

His wife Sabine has been campaigning to try & save his life for years. While there is some coverage in the French media for some reason they haven't given it anything like the kind of attention which the Australians have had Down Under.

http://www.euronews.com/2015/02/09/indonesia-to-execute-serge-atlaoui-of-france/

http://www.lemonde.fr/asie-pacifique/article/2015/03/04/indonesie-serge-atlaoui-condamne-a-mort-espere-la-revision-de-sa-peine_4587032_3216.html

AndonHandon

The two Australians are the only ones I have read much about. They were carrying a stash worth millions; they knew the risk, if caught, yet took it. Death by firing squad is gruesome and barbaric, however, but I have little sympathy for drug dealers where drugs are illegal.

mikom

nokia69 wrote: »

if I had my way we would have the same laws here

Thank fuck you will never get your way on this.

murpho999

Death Penalties belong to the dark ages and modern society governments should not be murdering people no matter what the crime.

They have to raise above that and show they are better than the criminals they want to deter.

nokia69

mikom wrote: »

Thank fuck you will never get your way on this.

why, are you a drug dealing scumbag

Captain Chaos

AndonHandon wrote: »

. Death by firing squad is gruesome and barbaric,.

I'd take that rather than a botched lethal injection, gas chamber, hanging, or having your head hacked off with a rusty knife by ISIS.

So long as the shooters are competent it's quick and relatively clean.

Amazingfun

murpho999 wrote: »

Death Penalties belong to the dark ages and modern society governments should not be murdering people no matter what the crime.

I don't agree and am not against the death penalty per se. But this post is not meant as an "abolish the death penalty" argument, it's just illustrating that the death penalty was not carried out in a timely fashion and as a result the mitigating circumstances and reasons for it being commuted to life sentences in this case are immense (imo).

Custardpi

If I had to choose hanging by the British "long drop" method is by far the quickest & least painful when done correctly. Firing squad executions often end with the prisoner needing a "coup de grace" to finish them off as the initial hail of bullets haven't worked.

mikom

nokia69 wrote: »

hard but fair, if I had my way we would have the same laws here

mikom wrote: »

Thank fuck you will never get your way on this.

nokia69 wrote: »

why, are you a drug dealing scumbag

No, but I am a father, a brother, a son, an uncle, a Human.

aidan24326

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

What I think is irrelevant.

It what the law dictates.

So the law is the law even if it's an unjust and unfair law? Even if that means stoning an adultress to death? Hanging a man for being gay? Executing two non-violent drug dealers where there are options for a more appropriate sentence? By your reasoning any state could do anything it wanted to its citizens once it's signed off in 'law'.

nokia69 wrote: »

well they knew the consequences when they planned to break the law

I wonder is the profit higher for drugs gangs in countries with the death penalty

hard but fair, if I had my way we would have the same laws here

Then we may all be grateful that you don't have your way.

The Aussie guys in this case broke the law and deserve punishment, they knew the dangers when they made that choice and it's appropriate that they face consequences for that (and they already have by spending 10 years in a sh1thole Indonesian prison).

However, execution, given their non-violent nature and their lack of any history of organised crime, seems a ridiculously excessive sentence.

RobertKK

The death penalty was needed in a time when prisons were not secure, no one want a serial killer escaping...modern prisons and modern technology has removed the need for the death penalty.

The people up for execution were moved to 'execution' island in the past couple of days.

weisses

skooterblue2 wrote: »

if you cant do the Time dont do the crime. Hustlers wanting to make a quick buck.

They ran out of time Im afraid

nokia69

aidan24326 wrote: »

However, execution, given their non-violent nature and their lack of any history of organised crime, seems a ridiculously excessive sentence.

the drugs they import lead to all kinds of violent crimes and murders

ohnonotgmail

Amazingfun wrote: »

....and a host of others as well, mainly foreigners. I've searched Boards.ie and surprisingly can't see any other threads about it. It's quite sad given the pain and extra horror being placed upon the family and friends of these guys, especially given how much good they've apparently done during the past ten years they've served in "Hotel K" (Bali's notorious Kerobokan Prison), all the while waiting to hear when they will be shot to death:





If so moved, you can sign the MERCY campaign's letter here:

You do know that these two gentlemen were convicted of organising the trafficking of massive amounts of drugs? They werent poor drug mules doing it to try to earn a few quid. One of them wasnt even caught with any drugs on them. They let other people do the difficult bit and carry the drugs for them.

mikom

nokia69 wrote: »

the drugs they import lead to all kinds of violent crimes and murders

Diageo

pauliebdub

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

Its difficult to have sympathy for Drug Dealers.

^^this.

They would have known the consequences before deciding to smuggle drugs. Get on with it I say.

Custardpi

nokia69 wrote: »

the drugs they import lead to all kinds of violent crimes and murders

One could say the same of the whiskey that was imported into the US during prohibition. The creation of a black market for narcotics by the ridiculous "war on drugs" is the main driving force behind such violence. I don't have much sympathy for anyone who knowingly deals drugs in countries where it's against the law, just as I'd have little for gangsters who fell afoul of the "T-Men" in 1920s America but one should also recognise that they are merely exploiting a situation which governments around the world have themselves helped to create. Outlaw coffee tomorrow & you'll probably have similar results before too long.

Canis Lupus

Death penalty is barbaric and pointless.

From a facile point of view I find it amusing they're being put to death for trying to smuggle drugs out of Indonesia...

Amazingfun

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

You do know that these two gentlemen were convicted of organising the trafficking of massive amounts of drugs? They werent poor drug mules doing it to try to earn a few quid. One of them wasnt even caught with any drugs on them. They let other people do the difficult bit and carry the drugs for them.

Yes I do know the details of the case as I've invested considerable time in doing so. Do YOU know how they've lived since? The art programs that have apparently helped many other prisoners including many Indonesians? The antidrug programs started and run by Chan and the praise that both men have received from the Prison Warden himself? It's been 10 years since they were originally sentenced and no one is asking for them to be set free....they are merely asking to be spared the death penalty as there seems to be no good reasons for killing them now.

aidan24326

nokia69 wrote: »

the drugs they import lead to all kinds of violent crimes and murders

All to be blamed on the mid-level drug smugglers?

The murdering is usually done at the higher level of drug traffiking gangs, and the majority of drug-related crime in general is carried out by the users, the junkies who will do anything for that next hit.

Look I'm not trying to condone drug trafficking. Anyone that tries to smuggle hard drugs through the likes of Indonesia or Thailand seriously needs their head examined. It's an insanely stupid and dangerous thing to do and if caught with any significant quantity you're basically fcuked. What myself and others are arguing against is the harshness and disproportionality of the sentence. You are coming at it from a 'hang em high' sort of attitude.

ohnonotgmail

aidan24326 wrote: »

All to be blamed on the mid-level drug smugglers?

The murdering is usually done at the higher level of drug traffiking gangs, and the majority of drug-related crime in general is carried out by the users, the junkies who will do anything for that next hit.

Look I'm not trying to condone drug trafficking. Anyone that tries to smuggle hard drugs through the likes of Indonesia or Thailand seriously needs their head examined. It's an insanely stupid and dangerous thing to do and if caught with any significant quantity you're basically fcuked. What myself and others are arguing against is the harshness and disproportienality of the sentence. You are coming at it from a 'hang em high' sort of attitude.

these guys trafficking massive amounts of drugs internationally. they were not guys selling 8 balls on the street to junkies

Amazingfun

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

these guys trafficking massive amounts of drugs internationally. they were not guys selling 8 balls on the street to junkies

Again: it's not the point here. They've served 10 years already. In those 10 years they've both demonstrated genuine remorse and done a lot of good work in the prison, which pretty much everyone agrees has helped a lot of other prisoners and made things a bit better there for many- arguably for even the staff.
How does killing them now serve anyone?

William F

AndonHandon wrote: »

The two Australians are the only ones I have read much about. They were carrying a stash worth millions; they knew the risk, if caught, yet took it. Death by firing squad is gruesome and barbaric, however, but I have little sympathy for drug dealers where drugs are illegal.

What about their families? They are victims in this too. Where is their justice?

Custardpi

I'd say there's very little chance of mercy at this point. Widodo has invested too much in his tough guy image to be able to back down now. I'd say the lads are well aware of that & are probably resigned to their fate. Check out this photo, taken during the transfer to the execution island. The expression on Sukumaran's face as he looks at the police official - he appears to be considering the possibility of decking the guy before the guards subdue him. He'd have nothing to lose at this point.

ohnonotgmail

Amazingfun wrote: »

Again: it's not the point here. They've served 10 years already. In those 10 years they've both demonstrated genuine remorse and done a lot of good work in the prison, which pretty much everyone agrees has helped a lot of other prisoners and made things a bit better there for many- arguably for even the staff.
How does killing them now serve anyone?

I agree they shouldnt have spent 10 years waiting to be executed. It should have happened a long time ago.

Dickerty

pauliebdub wrote: »

They would have known the consequences before deciding to smuggle drugs. Get on with it I say.

Nail 'em up I say! Nail some sense into them!!

While it does seem odd to wait 10 years, unless it was due to appeals etc., all that did was allow them to repair the soul somewhat...

William F

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

Its difficult to have sympathy for Drug Dealers.

You shouldn't knock heroin before you've tried it. You might like it.

ohnonotgmail

William F wrote: »

What about their families? They are victims in this too. Where is their justice?

Perhaps they should have thought of the impact on their families when they decided to become criminals.

Effects

skooterblue2 wrote: »

if you cant do the Time dont do the crime. Hustlers wanting to make a quick buck.

With great risk comes great reward.

Amazingfun

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I agree they shouldnt have spent 10 years waiting to be executed. It should have happened a long time ago.

And that's what makes this an especially heinous and cruel situation. The sentence was not "death plus 10 years psychological torture beforehand" etc...the fact they've served so much time all whilst never knowing when they might get the nod that it was their turn to be shot to death...and having their families and friends play witness to it all. Just not right.

ScumLord

Hans Bricks wrote: »

Supply & Demand. They wouldn't exist if so many people didn't want to piss their money away on recreational highs.

But the fact is that people do want to piss their money away on recreational drugs and have been doing it since before civilisation came about. The demand will always be there it's just a matter of who does the supplying. The fact is before prohibition drug crime wasn't nearly the social problem it is today.

The fact is prohibition is more harmful than the drugs themselves. The law has created a criminal enterprise where one couldn't exist before and the only reason criminal gangs can make so much money out of drugs is because of prohibition not the drugs themselves.

skooterblue2

ScumLord wrote: »

The fact is prohibition is more harmful than the drugs themselves. The law has created a criminal enterprise where one couldn't exist before and the only reason criminal gangs can make so much money out of drugs is because of prohibition not the drugs themselves.

But legalising tobacco and taxing it hasnt stopped the illegal cigarette trade? In fact it has fueled it.