Execution of the 'Bali Nine' "ringleaders" imminent

nokia69 · 05-03-2015 01:21PM

aidan24326 wrote: »

However, execution, given their non-violent nature and their lack of any history of organised crime, seems a ridiculously excessive sentence.

the drugs they import lead to all kinds of violent crimes and murders

ohnonotgmail · 05-03-2015 01:28PM

Amazingfun wrote: »

....and a host of others as well, mainly foreigners. I've searched Boards.ie and surprisingly can't see any other threads about it. It's quite sad given the pain and extra horror being placed upon the family and friends of these guys, especially given how much good they've apparently done during the past ten years they've served in "Hotel K" (Bali's notorious Kerobokan Prison), all the while waiting to hear when they will be shot to death:

If so moved, you can sign the MERCY campaign's letter here:

You do know that these two gentlemen were convicted of organising the trafficking of massive amounts of drugs? They werent poor drug mules doing it to try to earn a few quid. One of them wasnt even caught with any drugs on them. They let other people do the difficult bit and carry the drugs for them.

mikom · 05-03-2015 01:29PM

nokia69 wrote: »

the drugs they import lead to all kinds of violent crimes and murders

Diageo

pauliebdub · 05-03-2015 01:29PM

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

Its difficult to have sympathy for Drug Dealers.

^^this.

They would have known the consequences before deciding to smuggle drugs. Get on with it I say.

Custardpi · 05-03-2015 01:30PM

nokia69 wrote: »

the drugs they import lead to all kinds of violent crimes and murders

One could say the same of the whiskey that was imported into the US during prohibition. The creation of a black market for narcotics by the ridiculous "war on drugs" is the main driving force behind such violence. I don't have much sympathy for anyone who knowingly deals drugs in countries where it's against the law, just as I'd have little for gangsters who fell afoul of the "T-Men" in 1920s America but one should also recognise that they are merely exploiting a situation which governments around the world have themselves helped to create. Outlaw coffee tomorrow & you'll probably have similar results before too long.

Canis Lupus · 05-03-2015 01:33PM

Death penalty is barbaric and pointless.

From a facile point of view I find it amusing they're being put to death for trying to smuggle drugs out of Indonesia...

Amazingfun · 05-03-2015 01:44PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

You do know that these two gentlemen were convicted of organising the trafficking of massive amounts of drugs? They werent poor drug mules doing it to try to earn a few quid. One of them wasnt even caught with any drugs on them. They let other people do the difficult bit and carry the drugs for them.

Yes I do know the details of the case as I've invested considerable time in doing so. Do YOU know how they've lived since? The art programs that have apparently helped many other prisoners including many Indonesians? The antidrug programs started and run by Chan and the praise that both men have received from the Prison Warden himself? It's been 10 years since they were originally sentenced and no one is asking for them to be set free....they are merely asking to be spared the death penalty as there seems to be no good reasons for killing them now.

aidan24326 · 05-03-2015 01:44PM

nokia69 wrote: »

the drugs they import lead to all kinds of violent crimes and murders

All to be blamed on the mid-level drug smugglers?

The murdering is usually done at the higher level of drug traffiking gangs, and the majority of drug-related crime in general is carried out by the users, the junkies who will do anything for that next hit.

Look I'm not trying to condone drug trafficking. Anyone that tries to smuggle hard drugs through the likes of Indonesia or Thailand seriously needs their head examined. It's an insanely stupid and dangerous thing to do and if caught with any significant quantity you're basically fcuked. What myself and others are arguing against is the harshness and disproportionality of the sentence. You are coming at it from a 'hang em high' sort of attitude.

ohnonotgmail · 05-03-2015 01:52PM

aidan24326 wrote: »

All to be blamed on the mid-level drug smugglers?

The murdering is usually done at the higher level of drug traffiking gangs, and the majority of drug-related crime in general is carried out by the users, the junkies who will do anything for that next hit.

Look I'm not trying to condone drug trafficking. Anyone that tries to smuggle hard drugs through the likes of Indonesia or Thailand seriously needs their head examined. It's an insanely stupid and dangerous thing to do and if caught with any significant quantity you're basically fcuked. What myself and others are arguing against is the harshness and disproportienality of the sentence. You are coming at it from a 'hang em high' sort of attitude.

these guys trafficking massive amounts of drugs internationally. they were not guys selling 8 balls on the street to junkies

Amazingfun · 05-03-2015 02:01PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

these guys trafficking massive amounts of drugs internationally. they were not guys selling 8 balls on the street to junkies

Again: it's not the point here. They've served 10 years already. In those 10 years they've both demonstrated genuine remorse and done a lot of good work in the prison, which pretty much everyone agrees has helped a lot of other prisoners and made things a bit better there for many- arguably for even the staff.
How does killing them now serve anyone?

William F · 05-03-2015 02:05PM

AndonHandon wrote: »

The two Australians are the only ones I have read much about. They were carrying a stash worth millions; they knew the risk, if caught, yet took it. Death by firing squad is gruesome and barbaric, however, but I have little sympathy for drug dealers where drugs are illegal.

What about their families? They are victims in this too. Where is their justice?

Custardpi · 05-03-2015 02:05PM

I'd say there's very little chance of mercy at this point. Widodo has invested too much in his tough guy image to be able to back down now. I'd say the lads are well aware of that & are probably resigned to their fate. Check out this photo, taken during the transfer to the execution island. The expression on Sukumaran's face as he looks at the police official - he appears to be considering the possibility of decking the guy before the guards subdue him. He'd have nothing to lose at this point.

ohnonotgmail · 05-03-2015 02:06PM

Amazingfun wrote: »

Again: it's not the point here. They've served 10 years already. In those 10 years they've both demonstrated genuine remorse and done a lot of good work in the prison, which pretty much everyone agrees has helped a lot of other prisoners and made things a bit better there for many- arguably for even the staff.
How does killing them now serve anyone?

I agree they shouldnt have spent 10 years waiting to be executed. It should have happened a long time ago.

Dickerty · 05-03-2015 02:08PM

pauliebdub wrote: »

They would have known the consequences before deciding to smuggle drugs. Get on with it I say.

Nail 'em up I say! Nail some sense into them!!

While it does seem odd to wait 10 years, unless it was due to appeals etc., all that did was allow them to repair the soul somewhat...

William F · 05-03-2015 02:10PM

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

Its difficult to have sympathy for Drug Dealers.

You shouldn't knock heroin before you've tried it. You might like it.

ohnonotgmail · 05-03-2015 02:10PM

William F wrote: »

What about their families? They are victims in this too. Where is their justice?

Perhaps they should have thought of the impact on their families when they decided to become criminals.

Effects · 05-03-2015 02:11PM

skooterblue2 wrote: »

if you cant do the Time dont do the crime. Hustlers wanting to make a quick buck.

With great risk comes great reward.

Amazingfun · 05-03-2015 02:12PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I agree they shouldnt have spent 10 years waiting to be executed. It should have happened a long time ago.

And that's what makes this an especially heinous and cruel situation. The sentence was not "death plus 10 years psychological torture beforehand" etc...the fact they've served so much time all whilst never knowing when they might get the nod that it was their turn to be shot to death...and having their families and friends play witness to it all. Just not right.

ScumLord · 05-03-2015 02:17PM

Hans Bricks wrote: »

Supply & Demand. They wouldn't exist if so many people didn't want to piss their money away on recreational highs.

But the fact is that people do want to piss their money away on recreational drugs and have been doing it since before civilisation came about. The demand will always be there it's just a matter of who does the supplying. The fact is before prohibition drug crime wasn't nearly the social problem it is today.

The fact is prohibition is more harmful than the drugs themselves. The law has created a criminal enterprise where one couldn't exist before and the only reason criminal gangs can make so much money out of drugs is because of prohibition not the drugs themselves.

skooterblue2 · 05-03-2015 02:21PM

ScumLord wrote: »

The fact is prohibition is more harmful than the drugs themselves. The law has created a criminal enterprise where one couldn't exist before and the only reason criminal gangs can make so much money out of drugs is because of prohibition not the drugs themselves.

But legalising tobacco and taxing it hasnt stopped the illegal cigarette trade? In fact it has fueled it.

ohnonotgmail · 05-03-2015 02:22PM

Amazingfun wrote: »

And that's what makes this an especially heinous and cruel situation. The sentence was not "death plus 10 years psychological torture beforehand" etc...the fact they've served so much time all whilst never knowing when they might get the nod that it was their turn to be shot to death...and having their families and friends play witness to it all. Just not right.

Is it the 10 years you have such a problem with or the fact they are being executed?

Do you think they should have been executed the day after the verdict was given?

Custardpi · 05-03-2015 02:23PM

skooterblue2 wrote: »

But legalising tobacco and taxing it hasnt stopped the illegal cigarette trade? In fact it has fueled it.

When was tobacco ever illegal? Ban the sale of tobacco tomorrow & you'll have an even worse problem, guaranteed.

Wolf Club · 05-03-2015 02:29PM

nokia69 wrote: »

well they knew the consequences when they planned to break the law

I wonder is the profit higher for drugs gangs in countries with the death penalty

hard but fair, if I had my way we would have the same laws here

Well hopefully some days you'll have your way and will be capable of unleashing your "hard but fair" brand of justice.

What sort of sentence would you give to a young lad caught bringing a few bottles of absinthe and 2000 fags back from Spain? 20 years? Or an oul lad up in Cavan distilling poitin?

ScumLord · 05-03-2015 02:30PM

skooterblue2 wrote: »

But legalising tobacco and taxing it hasnt stopped the illegal cigarette trade? In fact it has fueled it.

No, constant tax hikes have encouraged the black market in cigarettes. Cigarettes were never illegal.

There will always be a black market as long as people can import things cheaper than their sold in the local shop. It's just a matter of how many people you push into the black market.

Tony EH · 05-03-2015 02:33PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I agree they shouldnt have spent 10 years waiting to be executed. It should have happened a long time ago.

They probably would have, only I'd say this case has been through appeal after appeal and other such delaying tactics.

Look, these guys were caught with $3,000,000 worth of heroin in their possession and as someone who's seen the devastation and death that that shit can cause, I can't have any sympathy for them at all.

skooterblue2 · 05-03-2015 02:33PM

Custardpi wrote: »

When was tobacco ever illegal? Ban the sale of tobacco tomorrow & you'll have an even worse problem, guaranteed.

well what ever but high taxing it. hasnt solved the problem and there will always be an illegal trade in it to avoid customs and excise.... I stand corrected on the misuse of the world legalised

donegaLroad · 05-03-2015 02:36PM

Im a member of the 'Friends of Myuran Sukumaran' on Facebook. I have been following this story since they were arrested in 2005. He has just been awarded a degree in Fine Art from an art college in Perth.

In an absurd twist of fate, the kingpin of the whole operation who didn't travel to Bali with the Bali nine, won $5 million on the Australian lottery a few years ago and gave up his life of crime.

skooterblue2 · 05-03-2015 02:37PM

Wolf Club wrote: »

What sort of sentence would you give to a young lad caught bringing a few bottles of absinthe and 2000 fags back from Spain? 20 years? Or an oul lad up in Cavan distilling poitin?

Knocking out a few bottles of poitin which isnt legal isnt the same of being in posession of £3m of heroin, not even in the same ball park

ScumLord · 05-03-2015 02:38PM

skooterblue2 wrote: »

well what ever but high taxing it. hasnt solved the problem and there will always be an illegal trade in it to avoid customs and excise.... I stand corrected on the misuse of the world legalised

The price of drugs in this country is huge compared to the UK, I'm absolutely convinced a legalised trade in cannabis would undercut the illegal trade by a sizable margin even with a stupidly high tax. The criminals are so used to getting a massive markup on their drugs that they would be in a financial spin that they couldn't recover from. They wouldn't be able to afford to pay their gangs and they'd lose their buying power on harder drugs.

Legalising cannabis would in actual fact be a financial blow to organised crime, it would literally pull the rug from under criminal gangs and there would be damn all they could do about it.

Amazingfun · 05-03-2015 02:38PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Is it the 10 years you have such a problem with or the fact they are being executed?

Do you think they should have been executed the day after the verdict was given?

I thought that was clear by now: yes I have a big problem with them having served 10 years prior to execution. Why? Because they didn't know they had that to serve, instead they were instructed (as the law allows) that were they to demonstrate remorse/rehabilitation their chances of having that sentence reduced to life were very good.
My biggest objection is that they have lived this whole time with the very real fear that at any moment they could be marked for death. Try and imagine the sheer terror they've endured....and then imagine what internal fortitude and character it took to do the good works they've done since. They have shown themselves to be remarkable people and so to now execute such men is an act of great cruelty.

Execution of the 'Bali Nine' "ringleaders" imminent

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