Strike On ! Proposed New Junior Cert See Mod Warning Post #1

katydid · 22-02-2015 12:20AM

MacGyver007 wrote: »

Having read all the posts in recent pages, I for one remain as unconvinced about assessing my own students as I was this morning in the same way that you appear also to be as unconvinced the other way; I still believe that the DES are not trying to bulldoze this through for the good of the students of the country. Therefore I'm going to offer to agree to disagree on assessing our own students. However, please have a look at the following:
https://astifightback.wordpress.com/2015/02/14/why-govt-wants-school-based-assessment-so-badly/

On another subtopic within this reformed Junior Cycle, a not insignificant number of teachers have major problems with these "short courses" and the fact that the vast majority of subjects will only be examined at a common level, consigning higher and ordinary levels to the dustbin; surely not the way to prepare for Senior Cycle?

Fair enough, shame I couldn't convince you, but you can't win 'em all :-)

We are singing off the same hymn sheet where the present proposals are concerned, at least. I just don't think that rejecting the whole concept is helping things...

MrJones1973 · 26-02-2015 09:42PM

Report in times today. Seems unions spilt. Some prob TUI want to accept deal in principle and then negotiate on resources . Department will say reforms rolling on regardless.
Are the unions going to act like a hornry teenager at 2am in a nightclub ? Ie go home now with the persistent suitor or be left on your own? But think my friend. You can go with this person and you will wake up with syphillis due to lack of resources and time pressure .The lights are on.The music is over.

evolving_doors · 26-02-2015 10:22PM

Yup, the pressure is on. Media have stoked it up. Ivan Yeats proclaiming this morning that teachers are sick of the unions and want to get on with it [the JCSA]... Also european report out today that says to save the economy we need to implement the Junior Cert reforms!! And aportioning the blame of the defecit in skills for IT at the education system (presume that's Primary and Secondary teachers fault.... yet again).

Let the spin continue.

km79 · 26-02-2015 10:34PM

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Report in times today. Seems unions spilt. Some prob TUI want to accept deal in principle and then negotiate on resources . Department will say reforms rolling on regardless.
Are the unions going to act like a hornry teenager at 2am in a nightclub ? Ie go home now with the persistent suitor or be left on your own? But think my friend. You can go with this person and you will wake up with syphillis due to lack of resources and time pressure .The lights are on.The music is over.

can you link article as I can't find it please

acequion · 26-02-2015 10:44PM

Armelodie wrote: »

Yup, the pressure is on. Media have stoked it up. Ivan Yeats proclaiming this morning that teachers are sick of the unions and want to get on with it [the JCSA]... Also european report out today that says to save the economy we need to implement the Junior Cert reforms!! And aportioning the blame of the defecit in skills for IT at the education system (presume that's Primary and Secondary teachers fault.... yet again).

Let the spin continue.

Ya I heard that too. As if a bunch of 14 year olds doing fiddly faddly projects and then going on to do a traditional LC is somehow going to resolve the so called skills shortage! Such a heap of %$%$%$ and such spin!!

r93kaey5p2izun · 26-02-2015 10:52PM

km79 wrote: »

can you link article as I can't find it please

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/divisions-emerging-in-teacher-unions-ahead-of-crucial-junior-cycle-meeting-1.2117581

I think this might be the one. Very worrying.

r93kaey5p2izun · 26-02-2015 10:58PM

Have you <> read the projects being proposed under new syllabi? Fiddly faddly seems a perfectly apt description.

acequion · 26-02-2015 11:02PM

What a shower of dictators! Imagine refusing to attend more talks and threatening to bully on with their plans.

There is only one thing to do and that's escalate our industrial action!

r93kaey5p2izun · 26-02-2015 11:06PM

katydid wrote: »

Can you explain why, since you've read them?

Speaking of the science propsals, they are wishy washy nonsense. They completely lack substance. It's all about presentation and communication and little or no focus on actual knowledge. The standard of the exemplars is a disgrace.

What's your opinion on the standard of course work being proposed since you oppose any criticism of it?

Jamfa · 26-02-2015 11:36PM

<mod snip>
The Framework for Junior Cycle doesn't mention CA. What is proposed is school-based assessment. In English this involves 2 assessments. For example, students will complete an oral communication task at the end of 2nd year and this will make up 15% of their marks for English. Continuous assessment is different & implies for many a lot of extra paper work etc and is understandably feared. A couple of assessments prior to the final exam in June of 3rd year is what I understand is proposed for many subjects.

seavill · 27-02-2015 12:18AM

<mod edit>
http://www.juniorcycle.ie

evolving_doors · 27-02-2015 12:27AM

OK So Mod Warning Time:

Posts attacking another poster will be deleted or heavily edited (a cue is to look for the word 'you' in your addressing of the point).
Posts debating the substance of a point will stand a better chance of moving on the discussion.
Do not declare publicly that another member is going on your ignore list (or words to that effect). The best way is to disengage and not respond, this is your choice and the best way to quell the flames.
Please be aware that some topics (e.g. the new JC science syllabus) have been discussed at length on this forum so; A) Do a boards search/google search Be cognisant that everybody isn't up to speed, so maybe post a link to the past thread or give a brief synopsis.
Please be aware that the opposing view is necessary for debate and learning. Much of the views that I disagree with crop up here so I think it's necessary to learn the rebuttals and other issues involved as we regularly meet similar opinions in the staff room (no matter what side of the fence you're on!)
Remember 'Continuous Assessment' is a loaded term (we continuously assess every day probably without even realising it). Stick to the Travers/JCSA Framework version.
Also make a distinction between school based certification and state certification as this to my mind is the crux of the Travers offering. For now, It is taken as a given that the unions are opposing any school based assessment for state certification (I think!).

Do not respond to this mod warning on thread.

km79 · 27-02-2015 04:31PM

today is a big day for the profession ........I'm worried about what news we will get

acequion · 27-02-2015 05:11PM

I'm more than worried,I'm petrified.:eek:

But keeping the fingers crossed.

evolving_doors · 27-02-2015 05:16PM

IT says that no matter what happens Jan is pressing ahead. She says english has started already!!

Chancer3001 · 27-02-2015 05:56PM

any links?

the asti website currenty isn't opening. Presumably due to site traffic

MacGyver007 · 27-02-2015 05:56PM

Gebgbegb wrote: »

IT says that no matter what happens Jan is pressing ahead. She says english has started already!!

The arrogance and contempt displayed is simply mind-boggling, especially in the context of the Travers report, where the following
sentence is in the 3rd paragraph of the first page,
"Such ambitious reform requires the wholehearted engagement of teachers - otherwise its chances of success are limited."

acequion · 27-02-2015 07:07PM

They're still talking,not looking good.:(

Icsics · 27-02-2015 07:39PM

Awful interview by ASTI president on news, no decision apparently yet. He would not inspire confidence, no clarity at all

acequion · 27-02-2015 07:51PM

Icsics wrote: »

Awful interview by ASTI president on news, no decision apparently yet. He would not inspire confidence, no clarity at all

We could have got worse news though. While I'd prefer to hear of a rejection, at least they didn't agree to anything nor,it seems will they without a ballot.

km79 · 27-02-2015 07:59PM

acequion wrote: »

We could have got worse news though. While I'd prefer to hear of a rejection, at least they didn't agree to anything nor,it seems will they without a ballot.

it will be a ballot .100%
and it will be the last ballot cos people are so sick of it they will just vote to accept to end it all. like they did with HRA .
I heard more than one person express this opinion today

MrJones1973 · 27-02-2015 08:02PM

Id love to sell a used car to your colleague!

If members vote for this without definite commitments on resources then they get what they deserve and Im leaving ASTI.

seavill · 27-02-2015 08:08PM

I thought you left last year after HRA no?

acequion · 27-02-2015 08:33PM

Resources or no resources I don't think anybody should vote for it. Full stop. Travers himself even said in his document that the timing of this reform was bad [not his exact words but to that effect]. Considering all we've endured these past six years it's incredible that they continue to heap pressure after pressure. No other group in the public service has been so squeezed.

So my view would be:Back to the drawing board,guys,let's elect a new Government next year and then we'll talk!

km79 · 27-02-2015 08:34PM

its all playing out as the pessimist/realist in me predicted..... the last few weeks have been nothing but a charade
http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0227/683271-teachers/

2011abc · 27-02-2015 09:29PM

Deja vu ... :-(

Will be put to a ballot repeatedly (and remember how the conditions actually DETERIORATED in subsequent ones with HRA) until ye 'vote right' .

"Ultimately she, as minister with responsibility for policy, has to make a decision about Junior Cert reform."
This one could turn out to be as arrogant as RQ , at least she wont be around as long .

evolving_doors · 27-02-2015 09:32PM

km79 wrote: »

its all playing out as the pessimist/realist in me predicted..... the last few weeks have been nothing but a charade
http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0227/683271-teachers/

So... the removal of external moderation!!

What do folk think of that? Schools correct project work etc and give students a school cert according to their own grading...

Although what happens to the course for state certification/june exams? Is that reduced?

2011abc · 27-02-2015 09:43PM

I think removal of external moderation shows it up as the ' face saving ' farce it is .

katydid · 27-02-2015 09:44PM

2011abc wrote: »

I think removal of external moderation shows it up as the ' face saving ' farce it is .

If there is no external moderation, it's a waste of time.

2011abc · 27-02-2015 09:49PM

Exactly !We are in agreement for once.Whole thing was a disaster from start to finish now they just want out of it as quickly as possible .The thing is traditionally FF/FG governments continue on with many of the cockamamie policies of the previous govt. unchanged .

Strike On ! Proposed New Junior Cert **See Mod Warning Post #1**

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Strike On ! Proposed New Junior Cert See Mod Warning Post #1