Strike On ! Proposed New Junior Cert **See Mod Warning Post #1**

rainbowtrout

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Take woodwork for example, the lads spent a few months making a chair / clock, whatever in class.

Usuallye it would be stored up until an examiner drives around and gives it a score.

In the new draft, the woodwork teacher would give the kid a score.

Ideally you'd have an external examiner, but the teacher knows what grade it deserves anyways. So it saves time and money.

Unfortunately some teachers are not so professional as to give the grade that is actually deserved. I've met plenty of 'johnny is weak but turns up for school every day and plays for the county minors, sure he deserves a good mark' types over the years.

Saving time and money isn't what education should be about. Honestly you are like Jan O'Sullivans wet dream at the moment with the stuff you are posting.

rainbowtrout

Chancer3001 wrote: »

New proposal stops the copy/paste bit

If anything it will make it worse.

happywithlife

rainbowtrout wrote: »

If anything it will make it worse.

I agree. Plenty will end up correcting the rough draft first AND then correcting the final document. So twice the work !

happywithlife

Chancer3001 wrote: »

In the new draft, the woodwork teacher would give the kid a score.

Ideally you'd have an external examiner, but the teacher knows what grade it deserves anyways. So it saves time and money.

There a big difference between having a rough idea to what grade A project deserves to actually sitting down and actually marking it. These marks will have to be recorded and submitted and then probably analysed to check the performance against other schools / national average.

doc_17

And will I be able to adjust my marking scheme if I don't have a certain number of As etc?

And if not you will see lots of schools will mainly middle class students getting wonderful results, eventually league tables will be published (cos you know that's another way to assess) and then you may see the deepening of ghettoisation in Irish schools.

spurious

At the moment, there is at least one JC subject where teacher assessment is then externally moderated for assessment purposes.

The teacher project assessment in ESS is optional and paid (not much, but paid, which is an important precedent) following an exam conference. The projects in schools where teachers choose not to correct are corrected by an external moderator and external moderators check the marking in all schools to maintain a standard.

This is what was intended in the original 'new' JC of 1992, but only actually happened in a couple of subjects and though the option was always there for subjects such as History and Geography, it was to my knowledge never taken up.

I can't see any valid reason for house exams to form the basis of assessment. Not sure where that idea is coming from.

acequion

It's because there are teachers out there with the same mind set as a certain stubborn poster here that we are in the mess we're in.

It's a combination of naivete,complacency and blind obedience to whatever the boss wants.
When we had two pay cuts in the one year back in 2009,they said,"Ah shur the money has to be found somewhere"

When that wasn't enough and we had to do CP hours,the same brigade said,"Ah shur tis only an hour a week"

When HR came along they said, "Ah shur can't we correct our copies while doing S&S". To the minority fortunate enough to be able to opt out they said,"shur tis only 600 a year,about 300 out of your pocket."

When sick leave was slashed by more than 50%,they said "shur people were taking advantage".

And now on top of all that we've endured, when we're expected to correct 40% of the JC, the attitude is we "might get away with" our summer tests and "couldn't we be doing something useful with CP hours"!

I will not apologise for my tone of contempt. The architects of the destruction of teaching and education have at each stage been aided and abetted by the spineless from within who will never cry STOP,ENOUGH and who will hang us all out to dry!

Shame on those teachers!!

Chancer3001

Nobody can hang you out to dry in a democracy.

If something is accepted it means the majority are in favour .

rainbowtrout

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Nobody can hang you out to dry in a democracy.

If something is accepted it means the majority are in favour .

This so called democracy had teachers vote 3 times to ram through an agreement they didn't want.

This so called democracy broke the croke park agreement even when we fulfilled our end of the bargain.

This so called democracy has still not paid the December increment to teachers as part of the new agreement even though they had 15 months to adjust their system for the change, but still managed to dock teachers pay on the very next payday after the strike.

We have been permanently tied to that particular democratic washing line and been hanging out to dry for the last 7 years.

Chancer3001

So we voted 3 times. People eventually decided they'd like to accept it.

They did indeed break croke park. Why didn't our union use them for breach of contract?

Increments, no idea, they've apologised and are blaming IT. It seems like a useless system they're using, hopefully they'll backdate the pay making the delay fairly ok.

rainbowtrout

Chancer3001 wrote: »

So we voted 3 times. People eventually decided they'd like to accept it.

They did indeed break croke park. Why didn't our union use them for breach of contract?

Increments, no idea, they've apologised and are blaming IT. It seems like a useless system they're using, hopefully they'll backdate the pay making the delay fairly ok.

No, they knew that they would continually be asked to vote until the government got the response they wanted.

Honestly, you are the government's dream teacher. Tell me, I'm curious, why are you so happy to accept a continued erosion of working conditions within the teaching profession??

Chancer3001

That would be a horrible reason for voting yes. I don't know why anybody would vote yes for that reason.

Also, I never once said I would accept this.

For the record, I think the new jc is a pile of crap. They're trying to force a whole load of extra work on Us. But if they've come to the agreement we could run the school the same way, that wouldn't be too bad.

I'd be voting against accepting this, I don't think it's fair on us, but I don't think it's THAT Bad

rainbowtrout

Chancer3001 wrote: »

That would be a horrible reason for voting yes. I don't know why anybody would vote yes for that reason.

Also, I never once said I would accept this.

For the record, I think the new jc is a pile of crap. They're trying to force a whole load of extra work on Us. But if they've come to the agreement we could run the school the same way, that wouldn't be too bad.

I'd be voting against accepting this, I don't think it's fair on us, but I don't think it's THAT Bad

Your acceptance is based on the fact that you have said several times that you would give written tests and you reckon you could get away with it. you've said that if that's the route your school go down then that's the way you will assess. That implies willingness to accept the terms offered.

You've said that it should be no more extra work, as we would be correcting mocks anyway.

Now you are rowing back saying that it's a whole load of extra work on us. Which is it Chancer?

Chancer3001

I think you neeed to re read what I actually said.

Never said I'd accept it. Just that it's not that bad.

I don't know what you're talking about with the mocks??

I also said, they're TRYING to force extra work on us.

rainbowtrout

Chancer3001 wrote: »

I think you neeed to re read what I actually said.

Never said I'd accept it. Just that it's not that bad.

I don't know what you're talking about with the mocks??

I also said, they're TRYING to force extra work on us.

How these two sentences can be in the same post is beyond me. I give up.

Dr Crippen

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Currently CSPE projects get done in a rough draft in class, then the teacher collects up the rough draft, changes what needs to be changed, corrects them, gives them back and the kids copy/paste the corrected version into the official booklet.

New proposal stops the copy/paste bit

Why? I only ask as I am currently doing the action project with my second years so I am intrigued

Benicetomonty

https://levdavidovic.wordpress.com/2015/02/17/33-questions-on-the-travers-proposals/

Chancer3001

Dr Crippen wrote: »

Why? I only ask as I am currently doing the action project with my second years so I am intrigued

Why what?

Chancer3001

Probabaly not the correct thread, but, one of the proposals is to have in school ballots, or in school collection of ballots I guess.

I think it would be a fantastic way of raising the % of teachers who vote

evolving_doors

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Probabaly not the correct thread, but, one of the proposals is to have in school ballots, or in school collection of ballots I guess.

I think it would be a fantastic way of raising the % of teachers who vote

I agree, although security might be different/more costly compared to votes arriving in head office in the post.

Dr Crippen

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Why what?

Originally Posted by Chancer3001 View Post
Currently CSPE projects get done in a rough draft in class, then the teacher collects up the rough draft, changes what needs to be changed, corrects them, gives them back and the kids copy/paste the corrected version into the official booklet.

New proposal stops the copy/paste bit

km79

Armelodie wrote: »

I agree, although security might be different/more costly compared to votes arriving in head office in the post.

our school steward has done something like this for past few ballots. He made up a little "postbox" which he left in staff room. He then went to the post office each day with the envelopes . He also kept count of the numbers that had voted and gave an update. Worked well and got near 100% voted each time.

spurious

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Probabaly not the correct thread, but, one of the proposals is to have in school ballots, or in school collection of ballots I guess.

I think it would be a fantastic way of raising the % of teachers who vote

The TUI has in school ballots.

MacGyver007

spurious wrote: »

The TUI has in school ballots.

There is a motion about this very idea on the agenda for the ASTI Convention at Easter. It is the last one in the document:
http://www.asti.ie/news/latest-news/news-article/article/convention-2015-motions//back_to/asti-home/

2011abc

Armelodie wrote: »

I agree, although security might be different/more costly compared to votes arriving in head office in the post.

As there's no questions around the integrity of the head office staff/count ...Sure don't they have some of 'Big Business's ' independent auditors ' on board?

Chancer3001

I think they mean votes would all be collected in school? Still sent to head office?

Rather than everybody sending them in individually

evolving_doors

2011abc wrote: »

As there's no questions around the integrity of the head office staff/count ...Sure don't they have some of 'Big Business's ' independent auditors ' on board?

Let it go 2011abc... let it gooooo.

MrJones1973

I trust the vote-sure the ballots are opened by any tom dick or harry but then transferred to a secure location. Nothing can happen. Nothing The auditors can only stand over the secure room. Once they are there.

spurious

For TUI, the votes are sent straight to the auditors.

2011abc

Armelodie wrote: »

Let it go 2011abc... let it gooooo.

...can't hold it back anymore ....