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Eddie Stones, Clonfert, County Galway

1235

Comments

  • #122
    Shrap
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭Shrap


    Gunney wrote: »
    Where do you get your understand of right and wrong from? Do you just follows what society tells you or do you understand right and wrong separate from society?

    For example if society decided to change something you now believe to be wrong and make it right and acceptable would you accept that because society tells you to?
    I get my understanding of right and wrong from my parents, from my friends and from my society, just like the rest of us. I would not find something right just because the majority thought so, I would form my own opinion using my own experience and my understanding of humanity.

    As somebody who needs proof that something can be considered wrong if it doesn't hurt anybody, I would be particularly against (for example) calling sex before marriage as wrong for example. If that was written into law, I'm sure it would be a law I would break.
    I'm not sure it is correct to say that homosexuality was against the law. I think it was homosexual acts that were against the law and people were prosecuted if there was evidence they had committed unnatural acts with members of the same sex.
    Same difference. Homosexuality or heterosexuality are inseparable from the natural sex acts between the two humans who are attracted to each other, whatever their gender.
    From a Christian perspective the fact that certain sexual acts are no longer criminalised does not make them right or moral.
    Which is why the Christian concept of sin is in great divergence from modern society's norms and concept of morality.


  • #123
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Gunney wrote: »
    The child was conceived as a result of a sinful act, the sin being not married. Whether or not the child died because of that sin we cannot say but the Bible makes it clear that sin has consequences in both this life and the next. Jesus cured people by forgiving their sins so the implication from God is clear that sins can cause disease.

    Would you go away with that rubbish. Having a baby outside marriage is no big deal, it only matters to the religious and the extreme conservatives.

    Do you think your loving god would punish someone for living in sin by taking their child? Why their child and not someone else's? Why not the children of people who rape, murder etc?

    You see, it makes no sense and whoever this joker is he had no right saying that to a vulnerable woman.


  • #124
    Gunney
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 135 ✭✭Gunney


    Shrap wrote: »
    I get my understanding of right and wrong from my parents, from my friends and from my society, just like the rest of us. I would not find something right just because the majority thought so, I would form my own opinion using my own experience and my understanding of humanity.

    But you have already said that you believe that society decides and defines what is right and wrong. If you would not find something right because the majority think it is does that not imply that you are contradicting yourself and that you have a separate source for knowing what is right and what is wrong?
    Shrap wrote: »
    As somebody who needs proof that something can be considered wrong if it doesn't hurt anybody, I would be particularly against (for example) calling sex before marriage as wrong for example. If that was written into law, I'm sure it would be a law I would break.

    What about the perscution of Christians for saying that homosexual acts are unnatural?
    Would you be against that law?
    If that was written into law I would break that law too even if the penalty was death.
    Shrap wrote: »
    Same difference. Homosexuality or heterosexuality are inseparable from the natural sex acts between the two humans who are attracted to each other, whatever their gender.

    Which is why the Christian concept of sin is in great divergence from modern society's norms and concept of morality.

    I disagree however I do note that you are suggesting that there is no such thing as unnatural sex even between hetersexuals.

    Do you think it a good thing that morality no longer exists in society?


  • #125
    Gunney
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 135 ✭✭Gunney


    eviltwin wrote: »
    You see, it makes no sense and whoever this joker is he had no right saying that to a vulnerable woman.

    That is if that is actually what he said or what happened. You were not there so why do believe something you have not witnessed for yourself and there is no coroborating evidence?


  • #126
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Gunney wrote: »
    That is if that is actually what he said or what happened. You were not there so why do believe something you have not witnessed for yourself and there is no coroborating evidence?

    Well I tend to take posts as I find them unless they have obvious troll written all over them. Do you think the poster who made that claim is a liar?


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  • #127
    Gunney
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 135 ✭✭Gunney


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Well I tend to take posts as I find them unless they have obvious troll written all over them. Do you think the poster who made that claim is a liar?

    That is not my point. My point is that you are prepared to believe in something you have no evidence for.


  • #128
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Gunney wrote: »
    That is not my point. My point is that you are prepared to believe in something you have no evidence for.

    We have no evidence for most of what people post on boards, we take them at face value. If you feel he is lying why bother responding to him?


  • #129
    Gunney
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 135 ✭✭Gunney


    eviltwin wrote: »
    If you feel he is lying why bother responding to him?

    I'm not.


  • #130
    Shrap
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭Shrap


    Gunney wrote: »
    But you have already said that you believe that society decides and defines what is right and wrong. If you would not find something right because the majority think it is does that not imply that you are contradicting yourself and that you have a separate source for knowing what is right and what is wrong?

    I generally go along with my own interpretation of what is hurtful to people (wrong) and what is not (right). If society does not agree with me however, I don't claim to be persecuted, I just get on with trying to explain why I think other people are wrong. Or to what degree they are wrong, etc.
    What about the perscution of Christians for saying that homosexual acts are unnatural?
    Would you be against that law?
    If that was written into law I would break that law too even if the penalty was death.

    Go away out of that! There's no law persecuting Christians in this country! And of course I'd be against one. However, I do believe you are conflating persecution with people just not agreeing to uphold your convictions as true.
    I disagree however I do note that you are suggesting that there is no such thing as unnatural sex even between hetersexuals.
    Well spotted. Not only am I suggesting it, I am convinced there are no unnatural sex acts between consenting adults and I am backed up by our society's laws. Are you?
    Do you think it a good thing that morality no longer exists in society?

    I think you have to be joking here. Sin may no longer exist in society but we have as many rules of behaviour as ever. We all learn our morals at our parent's knees, alongside our language. Over time these are tweeked by society as what once was considered controversial or wrong, becomes more of a norm. Acceptance follows. Or not, in your case. The inverse is also true - what may once have been considered acceptable and right is now considered abnormal. Hitting your children, for example.

    That was a bit rushed as I'm on the way out for the night, and won't be back till tomorrow evening. Pleasant chatting with you.

    S.


  • #131
    percy glendening
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43 ✭percy glendening


    I was out there myself many years ago.I had a bit of the old back trouble.
    Nothing serious mind.
    Eddie placed his hand on my forehead.I can't recall exactly what he said but i do remember
    him saying something about Angel Guidance.Anyway my back felt better almost straight away
    and totally better after a few days.Very friendly atmosphere.Definitely worth a visit.


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  • #132
    lazybones32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,647 ✭✭✭lazybones32


    I've listened to Eddie Stones before and what he is accused of saying doesn't fit with anything I've ever heard him say.


  • #133
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    percy glendening wrote: »
    I was out there myself many years ago.I had a bit of the old back trouble.
    Nothing serious mind.
    Eddie placed his hand on my forehead.I can't recall exactly what he said but i do remember
    him saying something about Angel Guidance.Anyway my back felt better almost straight away
    and totally better after a few days.Very friendly atmosphere.Definitely worth a visit.

    Did you have to pay him for that ?


  • #134
    percy glendening
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43 ✭percy glendening


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Did you have to pay him for that ?
    There was no obligation to pay anything no.
    I did however throw a few bob in the collection tin.
    There was tea and light refreshments afterwards.
    So i feel it was well worth the visit.


  • #135
    DavidSullivan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26 ✭DavidSullivan


    I also paid a visit to the man himself approx. 10 years ago. I was diagnosed with Army fatigue by my local doctor from serving 1 year in the Navy Seals.

    Long story short, I received a sweaty hand to my head with him saying the following words : ''I will guide you through the toaster''. I thought I heard it wrong but to my surprise, he repeated it.

    I felt no different after the ceremony but the tea and biscuits went down a treat.


  • #136
    tfitzgerald
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,289 ✭✭✭tfitzgerald


    Gunney wrote: »
    What is wrong wiht you people and this country. For all Christians, not just Catholics, sex outside marriage is immoral and a sin, and quite a serious sin at that. What is wrong with someone, particularly a Catholic saying that to another Catholic?

    If you can not really see anything wrong in what he said. Then you are either just trying to cause trouble or you're just an <snip>. Or maybe both?


  • #137
    Gunney
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 135 ✭✭Gunney


    tfitzgerald wrote: »
    If you can not really see anything wrong in what he said. Then you are either just trying to cause trouble or you're just an <snip>. Or maybe both?

    I do not have the full facts on the case - all I have is incomplete and biased hearsay.

    My point was that even Jesus equated sin with disease.

    If a child is born out of wedlock then it is obvious that sin was involved. Any Catholic who allows their children to live lives of sin without advice or correction should take a long hard look at themselves and how they live their lives and raised their children before they call anyone else out for calling a sin a sin.


  • #138
    tfitzgerald
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,289 ✭✭✭tfitzgerald


    Gunney wrote: »
    I do not have the full facts on the case - all I have is incomplete and biased hearsay.

    My point was that even Jesus equated sin with disease.

    If a child is born out of wedlock then it is obvious that sin was involved. Any Catholic who allows their children to live lives of sin without advice or correction should take a long hard look at themselves and how they live their lives and raised their children before they call anyone else out for calling a sin a sin.

    If those are your real opinions. Then I pity you and I realy hope the sun keeps shining on you. I want nothing to do with a church or God that would hurt a little baby because his mother committed a sin. I was having doubts about leaving the church but people like you have made up my mind for me. Thank you I will leave you with a quote from the bible

    7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.


  • #139
    newmug
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,571 ✭✭✭newmug


    tfitzgerald wrote: »
    If those are your real opinions. Then I pity you and I realy hope the sun keeps shining on you. I want nothing to do with a church or God that would hurt a little baby because his mother committed a sin. I was having doubts about leaving the church but people like you have made up my mind for me. Thank you I will leave you with a quote from the bible

    7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.





    Ah tfitzgerald, Eddie Stone made a mistake. Don't leave over something stupid someone else did or said. Its not that you're somehow giving the fingers to anybody by leaving, you're not! But you are putting your soul in danger. If you can logically come to the conclusion that science hasn't discovered everything, and that there could be more out there, then you HAVE to give credence to the possibility of there being some sort of supernatural afterlife. And if there is, that means you have a soul, and its your job to look after it.


  • #140
    Gunney
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 135 ✭✭Gunney


    tfitzgerald wrote: »
    I was having doubts about leaving the church but people like you have made up my mind for me.

    I second Newmug but seriously, do you think God will accept your argument that you decided to reject Him because someone told you the truth? Or because you misunderstood or misinterpreted something someone said? and I don't just mean in this particular case.

    If you want excuses to leave the Church I am sure you will have no difficulty in finding reasons. It sounds like you have been looking for sufficient reason for some time. Many refused to join because of the requirement to eat His flesh and drink His blood. Today it seems to be sexual morality that is the reason for many to leave, or the requirement to go to confession, go to mass and... ah yes, eat His Body and drink His blood.
    You make up your own mind. No one else does this for you. Not me, not Newmug, not Eddie Stones. By all means blame us if it makes you feel better about your choice.

    If you leave the Church and reject God you cannot then comfort your daughter with the knowledge that her baby is with God in heaven. That is a far better comfort than looking for the Church to tell you what it cannot - that sin is acceptable, or trying to find solace on a third rate discussion board.


  • #141
    Shrap
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭Shrap


    Gunney wrote: »
    someone told you the truth?

    You're so sure it's the truth, you'd second what Eddie Stones said to that poor girl whose baby died? You really believe the death was caused by her "sinning" when 100's of 1000's of children who don't die were conceived under similar circumstances in our country? This particular girl was singled out?
    If you leave the Church and reject God you cannot then comfort your daughter with the knowledge that her baby is with God in heaven. That is a far better comfort than looking for the Church to tell you what it cannot - that sin is acceptable, or trying to find solace on a third rate discussion board.

    The knowledge? The fear that it isn't true, more like.


    Cold comfort indeed. The thought that the church could maybe tell you (if it cared) that our ordinary, everyday human experiences are acceptable but chooses not to, is to me less comfort than the thought that this life is all there is. There is no more. And we have questions that remain unanswered, but that's ok, we're only human.


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  • #142
    Gunney
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 135 ✭✭Gunney


    Shrap wrote: »
    You're so sure it's the truth, you'd second what Eddie Stones said to that poor girl whose baby died? You really believe the death was caused by her "sinning" when 100's of 1000's of children who don't die were conceived under similar circumstances in our country? This particular girl was singled out?

    I was refering to the truth that a sin is a sin. I have no evidence of what happen in the presence of Eddie Stones.

    Shrap wrote: »
    The knowledge? The fear that it isn't true, more like.

    Cold comfort indeed. The thought that the church could maybe tell you (if it cared) that our ordinary, everyday human experiences are acceptable but chooses not to, is to me less comfort than the thought that this life is all there is. There is no more. And we have questions that remain unanswered, but that's ok, we're only human.


    Do you really think this is the right place to introduce your belief that there is no Heaven?
    Perhaps you think it is acceptable to comfort women who have lost babies by telling them that in your belief system they have simply ceased to exist.

    For Catholics whose babies were baptised before they died they are in Heaven and that is a very powerful comfort. For babies who were not baptised and hence may not be in Heaven they the are closer to God that we are and they have hte hope of Heaven eventually.

    You don't have to believe that but it might be better to debate that in a thread that is unrelated to Christianity or Christian issues.


  • #143
    Shrap
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭Shrap


    Gunney wrote: »
    Do you really think this is the right place to introduce your belief that there is no Heaven?
    Perhaps you think it is acceptable to comfort women who have lost babies by telling them that in your belief system they have simply ceased to exist.
    I think it is just as acceptable to present the belief that I do not know if there is an afterlife, than that I do know, but you are a sinner and if "unrepentant", are not acceptable to heaven.

    It's not exactly a novel idea, that your beliefs might be mistaken. I'm not introducing these ideas for the first time. I'm merely saying that it might be more comforting to think that we are only human and no better than the rest of nature (therefore we die and don't come back), than to think that we have a god-given gift of life and if we step out of line with the "scriptures" we are damned to all eternity unless we repent our human nature.

    I think it acceptable within my belief system to say to women who have lost their babies that it's not their fault, it's the way we are. It's nature. It's natural. Very unfortunate, but natural.


  • #144
    Gunney
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 135 ✭✭Gunney


    Shrap wrote: »
    I think it is just as acceptable to present the belief that I do not know if there is an afterlife, than that I do know, but you are a sinner and if "unrepentant", are not acceptable to heaven.

    It's not exactly a novel idea, that your beliefs might be mistaken. I'm not introducing these ideas for the first time. I'm merely saying that it might be more comforting to think that we are only human and no better than the rest of nature (therefore we die and don't come back), than to think that we have a god-given gift of life and if we step out of line with the "scriptures" we are damned to all eternity unless we repent our human nature.

    I think it acceptable within my belief system to say to women who have lost their babies that it's not their fault, it's the way we are. It's nature. It's natural. Very unfortunate, but natural.

    Well, in this thread God exists, Heaven exists, Hell exists and sin exists.


  • #145
    Shrap
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭Shrap


    Gunney wrote: »
    Well, in this thread God exists, Heaven exists, Hell exists and sin exists.

    Good for you. Yay. You get into heaven. Not so good for those who don't/didn't/couldn't toe the line.


    The line determined by..............................................................



    god? or humans?


  • #146
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    This is one of the reasons so many people have no belief or time for religion anymore. I don't believe in a God that would punish a woman for having a baby outside marriage by taking her baby's life when the likes of ISIS get away with far greater sins. Why doesn't God send a earthquake over their way or kill them all in some freak accident. Why target a young woman whose only crime was to become pregnant? Who wants to associated with a god like that.


  • #147
    Gunney
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 135 ✭✭Gunney


    Shrap wrote: »

    The line determined by..............................................................



    god? or humans?

    In this thread? I believe it was a human who wrote the Charter.


  • #148
    Shrap
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭Shrap


    Gunney wrote: »
    In this thread? I believe it was a human who wrote the Charter.

    Sorry, please excuse my ignorance, but what charter are you referring to? Did we have a say on it (within the last 30 years say) in Ireland?


  • #149
    Gunney
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 135 ✭✭Gunney


    Shrap wrote: »
    Sorry, please excuse my ignorance, but what charter are you referring to? Did we have a say on it (within the last 30 years say) in Ireland?

    The forum charter that gives the rules on what can and cannot be discussed on this forum.

    I'm given to understand that in this thread we can discuss Eddie Stones and anything relating to him. Given that Eddie Stones is a Catholic and has certain beliefs I don't believe that waltzing and say things to the effect that God or Heaven doesn't exist is appropriate in this thread.

    In terms if what Eddie Stones is reputed to have said I see no conflict with the Bible.
    Nor can I see how your position can bring anything positive to the discussion.


  • #150
    Shrap
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭Shrap


    Gunney wrote: »
    I don't believe that waltzing and say things to the effect that God or Heaven doesn't exist is appropriate in this thread.
    Oh right. Ok, that's grand so. I certainly never have said God or Heaven doesn't exist. I have simply said that I do not know that they do.
    In terms if what Eddie Stones is reputed to have said I see no conflict with the Bible.
    Nor can I see how your position can bring anything positive to the discussion.

    No! Neither do I! The bible is pretty clear on pre-marriage sex, as far as I know. However, the bible is not to be taken literally, amn't I right? I mean, we'd all be thinking we were damned to hell if it was literal, yes?

    As for what positives I can bring to the discussion.....well, so far, the notion that if you have sex before marriage, you will have no effect on the resulting baby. I consider that a positive! But perhaps you consider that a negative? Perhaps you have brought something more positive to the discussion? You call it fact that sex before marriage could result in the death of the baby, and that anything a god considers a sin could make you sick. I personally fail to see the positivity in that. Sorry.


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  • #151
    Gunney
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 135 ✭✭Gunney


    Shrap wrote: »
    No! Neither do I! The bible is pretty clear on pre-marriage sex, as far as I know. However, the bible is not to be taken literally, amn't I right? I mean, we'd all be thinking we were damned to hell if it was literal, yes?

    If we are talking about the words of Christ why would we not take them literally?
    Shrap wrote: »
    As for what positives I can bring to the discussion.....well, so far, the notion that if you have sex before marriage, you will have no effect on the resulting baby. I consider that a positive! But perhaps you consider that a negative? Perhaps you have brought something more positive to the discussion? You call it fact that sex before marriage could result in the death of the baby, and that anything a god considers a sin could make you sick. I personally fail to see the positivity in that. Sorry.

    Jesus equated sin with disease. Only God knows for sure if a sin causes a particular disease. But we can also see that disease can be a consequence of sin. We are told that sex outside of marriage is wrong. I don't know that it can cause the death of a baby but I do know that if someone can pick up an STD by having sex outside of marrige. Is it not fair to say that the disease is a consequence of this particuar sin?
    If someone develops an addiction is that not the result of the sin of abusing a particular drug? If a couch potato develops heart disease is this not a consequence of the sin of laziness?

    Some on this thread are intent on blaming God for the deaths of babies but what about Satan? Why is he not being blamed for disease and death?


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