Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread IV

Buer · 22-02-2015 11:02PM

aimee1 wrote: »

McCaws work is subjective, timing on kicks isnt.

Well, it's not really. If McCaw comes into the ruck from an offside position, he comes in from an offside position. If the referee choose to focus on it, great. There are about 3 infringements at every ruck. The referee choose to ignore them based on how he referees the game. The referee will also generally ignore the counter unless it's clearly over the minute mark.

Buer · 22-02-2015 11:03PM

Just for clarity:

Law 21.4C:

The intention to kick is signalled by the arrival of the kicking tee or sand, or when the player makes a mark on the ground.

22-02-2015 11:06PM

Buer wrote: »

Just for clarity:

Law 21.4C:

The intention to kick is signalled by the arrival of the kicking tee or sand, or when the player makes a mark on the ground.

One for the laws thread perhaps so, but if Ireland were 1 point down with 90seconds remaining on the playing clock and won a penalty directly in front of the posts, what prevents our tee-bringer-on-er taking his sweet ass time so that when Sexton receives the tee there's only 50s left on the clock, meaning that he can take his time and there wont be time left for the restart?

I was under the impression (seemingly wrongly) that the referee marks the intention to kick (by pointing at the posts) which then means that the team are committed to taking a kick at goal and can no longer take a tap penalty / kick for touch.

durkadurka · 22-02-2015 11:08PM

The other one is 17.38 to 18.30.

So one out of four outside the limit and the 66 minute one we can't tell.

I remember lots of times screaming inside my head "just fcuking kick it!!"

aimee1 · 22-02-2015 11:08PM

Buer wrote: »

Well, it's not really. If McCaw comes into the ruck from an offside position, he comes in from an offside position. If the referee choose to focus on it, great. There are about 3 infringements at every ruck. The referee choose to ignore them based on how he referees the game. The referee will also generally ignore the counter unless it's clearly over the minute mark.

precisely, it comes down to a refs judgement whereas a clock is definitive

Poite pinging sexton last night will be highlighted by every opposition coach going forward. He loses a kick at goal costs a team 3 points and then Sexton might start to rush kicks there on.

Buer · 22-02-2015 11:14PM

He might but I doubt he will. I'd be very, very surprised if he amended his kicking routine which is clearly very much integral to his goalkicking because he was pinged once after 200 games.

Also, as highlighted, he's not really exceeding the minute mark very often. It might seem like a long time but he's generally at or under the 60 second mark from the time he's given the tee.

22-02-2015 11:16PM

The highlights are on balls.ie of the game. It's like he goes to kick it and then stops himself, then goes again. He actually hits the post anyway.

durkadurka · 22-02-2015 11:16PM

Buer wrote: »

He might but I doubt he will. I'd be very, very surprised if he amended his kicking routine which is clearly very much integral to his goalkicking because he was pinged once after 200 games.

Also, as highlighted, he's not really exceeding the minute mark very often. It might seem like a long time but he's generally at or under the 60 second mark from the time he's given the tee.

In fairness he's been called on it and I believe he'll be targeted now.

Swiwi. · 22-02-2015 11:18PM

I dunno. Lots of burying heads in the sand going on here. I'm told relentlessly on this forum that Schmidt is apparently a sucker for attention to detail, I would think the little detail of Sexton playing Russian roulette with the clock should be looked at. Only needs a ref to fixate on this, and it could prove costly.

NB: is this one of those laws that's virtually never applied? When was the last time you saw the attacking team conceding a free-kick for not safely bringing their man down at the lineout, that's another never-applied law.

.ak · 22-02-2015 11:24PM

As I'll repeat, it'll only be a problem when it becomes one.

Swiwi. · 22-02-2015 11:26PM

.ak wrote: »

As I'll repeat, it'll only be a problem when it becomes one.

Good luck with that so .ak if it costs Ireland next weekend or in the RWC. At least he can't say he hasn't been warned.

The likelihood is that it won't ever raise it's head again...but it just might.

First Up · 22-02-2015 11:26PM

.ak wrote: »

As I'll repeat, it'll only be a problem when it becomes one.

By which time it will be too late.

durkadurka · 22-02-2015 11:28PM

.ak wrote: »

As I'll repeat, it'll only be a problem when it becomes one.

So it's 12 all against England on Sunday and the ref calls him on it.

It's a bloody problem then.

aimee1 · 22-02-2015 11:32PM

.ak wrote: »

As I'll repeat, it'll only be a problem when it becomes one.

it became a problem on saturday and i reckon lancaster will have noted it and will mention it to the ref before the game on sunday, he would be crazy not to.

.ak · 22-02-2015 11:34PM

First Up wrote: »

By which time it will be too late.

Jeez you're making it sound like we'll lose the championship because of it.

It's like saying they should change his technique now because his kicks are flirting with the uprights.

That's not how kicking routines work. He works, when he can, weekly with his kicking coach. They only address things when they become an issue, ie, when he misses a few, or in this case, when he gets pinged a few times for taking too long.

.ak · 22-02-2015 11:36PM

Swiwi. wrote: »

Good luck with that so .ak if it costs Ireland next weekend or in the RWC. At least he can't say he hasn't been warned.

The likelihood is that it won't ever raise it's head again...but it just might.

Aye and we might lose a game because sob gives up a penalty instead of earning one whilst poaching. You only address these things if they become problematic. Right now his kicking is winning us games, not losing them.

.ak · 22-02-2015 11:39PM

aimee1 wrote: »

it became a problem on saturday and i reckon lancaster will have noted it and will mention it to the ref before the game on sunday, he would be crazy not to.

Like Others have said, 1 in 200 kicks, it's not a problem. I'm sure coaches have already picked up on it, long before now.

Buer · 22-02-2015 11:43PM

There are so many small things that could be called and never are. A line out member not being half a metre at least away from being directly in line with the thrower. A lift taking place before the ball is thrown happens every bloody game (sometimes the throwing team do it as a dummy, even). Or a player using his outside arm to bat the ball back to his side? Can't remember ever seeing that called aside from once or twice.

The fact is that the minute allowance is never called and as we've seen it's not really an issue for him generally. He kicks the ball in under 60 seconds the majority of the time. I don't think any referee is going to have the balls to call it in next Sunday's game if he's 5 seconds over the limit. We've seen balls being at the back of rucks for more than 5 seconds plenty of times but you only see it called a few times a season.

Hagz · 22-02-2015 11:53PM

With all the level of detail that goes into the game, you'd be a fool not to believe that Sexton and his kicking coach would regularly time his routine and make sure it isn't going over. This one instance isn't going to cause him and his kicking coach to do anything they haven't already done before. I'd be very hesitant to tweak with a kicker's routine anyway when he's been successful up to now.

jm08 · 22-02-2015 11:57PM

.ak wrote: »

As I'll repeat, it'll only be a problem when it becomes one.

The thing is though that if he does get called on it, it is going to upset his whole routine.

As well as that, what about in a situation where you are chasing a game and you want to get more points on the board? 15 or 20 seconds could be vital with regard to restarting again.

Fireball07 · 23-02-2015 12:09AM

Whatever about Sexton and his own kicking, I would personally like to see the clock stopped between the scoring of the try and the bringing of the tee onto the field, if that's when the countdown starts. It's way too easy for teams to waste time in those situations.

The Lost Sheep · 23-02-2015 12:34AM

phog wrote: »

I'm well aware the ref times the kicks and occasionally would have heard refs caution kickers about their timing. Currently in the Top14 a timer appears on the TV screen thus making the viwers more aware of the delay, it could also remove any discretion the ref might have used up to now.

A timer doesn't need to go on screen. That doesn't remove any discretion the referee would have.

.ak wrote: »

Jeez you're making it sound like we'll lose the championship because of it.

It's like saying they should change his technique now because his kicks are flirting with the uprights.

That's not how kicking routines work. He works, when he can, weekly with his kicking coach. They only address things when they become an issue, ie, when he misses a few, or in this case, when he gets pinged a few times for taking too long.

His technique wouldn't be changing but his routine would and. I would have thought any coach(good one's anyway) would aim to be proactive rather than reactive and if it may become an issue then JS and his kicking coaches would work on changes to make sure he isn't penalised

phog · 23-02-2015 12:45AM

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

A timer doesn't need to go on screen. That doesn't remove any discretion the referee would have.

I know that but it does appear on the screen for the Top14.

There was time when we no one bar the ref really knew for sure when the 40 or 80 mins were up. Now, however, everyone knows by the stadium clock and/or the TV screen the amount of time played or remaining, similar will happen with penalty kicks.

On Sexton, he hasn't time to alter his routine before our game v England, if he tries to alter it now it could be a disaster for us, I'd prefer him to stick to his routine now and hope he isn't penalised for taking too long than go tinkering with his kicks.

molloyjh · 23-02-2015 01:00AM

And now for something completely different...

With England and Ireland both having 2 from 2 in the 6 Nations and both having played Italy it's hugely satisfying that there are only 5 points PD between the two sides. I had figured that we'd struggle a bit more against Italy and that England would run riot against them. I can't help but feel Italy may again have done us a favour similar to last year where they kept the PD against England close enough to suit us. If we beat England next week we may still be able to afford a loss to Wales and win the Championship. It'll be tough admittedly, but do-able.

Bridge93 · 23-02-2015 01:09AM

molloyjh wrote: »

And now for something completely different...

With England and Ireland both having 2 from 2 in the 6 Nations and both having played Italy it's hugely satisfying that there are only 5 points PD between the two sides. I had figured that we'd struggle a bit more against Italy and that England would run riot against them. I can't help but feel Italy may again have done us a favour similar to last year where they kept the PD against England close enough to suit us. If we beat England next week we may still be able to afford a loss to Wales and win the Championship. It'll be tough admittedly, but do-able.

My memory of it was Italy doing everything they could to help England overturn what should have been an impossible points differential! They were dreadful that day. But I agree with your point.

thomond2006 · 23-02-2015 01:11AM

I haven't seen anything on Henderson so I guess he's ok???

bilston · 23-02-2015 01:33AM

thomond2006 wrote: »

I haven't seen anything on Henderson so I guess he's ok???

Dead leg I think, should be ok for the weekend but dead legs can vary in their severity, I seem to remember someone (might have been Robbie Diack) who missed a few weeks for Ulster last season with a dead leg.

molloyjh · 23-02-2015 01:57AM

Bridge93 wrote: »

My memory of it was Italy doing everything they could to help England overturn what should have been an impossible points differential! They were dreadful that day. But I agree with your point.

They were, but the try that Sarto got that day was hugely important. All of us who were watching it went nuts when he got it.

redmca2 · 23-02-2015 01:02PM

Bridge93 wrote: »

My memory of it was Italy doing everything they could to help England overturn what should have been an impossible points differential! They were dreadful that day. But I agree with your point.

But bear in mind England let Italy in for 3 tries, so Italy could have been a whole lot worse, and indeed better if they had any semblance of a kicker.

TommyOM · 24-02-2015 01:17PM

I just want to be clear here...

So Sexton has played 200+ top level games over the course of his career. At an estimate he has probably taken well over 1500 kicks in that time and in those 1500 kicks he has been pinged ONCE for going over the time limit.

I mean some people just can't rest with Sexton. Hes the best outhalf in the world and it can't be disputed at this stage so people go and try to jump on the most pathetically small thing, anything, so that they can criticize the guy.

"Unacceptable for a professional athlete" - lol the guy is a 3 time HC winner, Six nations winner, Lions series winner and the best outhalf in the world. No outhalf in Irish history has achieved what he has or has even been considered the best in the world in their position. I reckon he's doing fine.

Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread IV

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