How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

K4t wrote: »

No, you're not. You are simply taking issue with me on a personal level as per usual. Antagonizing? No, you misunderstand. The poster suggested they were voting NO because of a fear of gay rights. I simply attempted to make it clear that it is not about gay rights, but HUMAN RIGHTS. I empathised with his views, and explained how I understood them perfectly as a fellow heterosexual male.

First of all, you've made clear about five times today that you are heterosexual. We get it.

Second of all, don't be so paranoid. I don't remember the names of people I debate with and any reference made to your posts has been to those I have read today, specifically taking one poster by the shoulder and telling him that he's a little bit homophobic.

Plenty of homophobic people around. Plenty of people with misplaced fears around. But patronizing them like that is a sure recipe or alienation. There's a reason you won't see seasoned politicians doing it. It just isn't smart. it annoys people. It pisses them off. It does not change anyone's mind.

sup_dude wrote: »

In fairness, the problems you have are problems with marriage in general and I wouldn't consider it fair to take your problems with marriage out on people who want to get married (Or at least have that option).

Think my problems are more than just marriage same sex or not, so many other difficulties in life, life can I afford food tomorrow etc, luckily enough I get paid tomorrow so chances are I can.. but if this vote passes and makes life easier for those it directly effects, then great why begrudge men or women if it can have no possible ramifications to yourself. But sometimes we don't always get what we want. Will I have time to vote that day? Will I still be alive by then? Could I be bothered as I'm not directly affected?

With regard to affecting your family: If they're gay, yes it'll affect them. If they're not, then no, it'll not affect them.

That was a rhetoric more than a question..

Anita Blow wrote: »

I just don't get this logic at all, it almost sounds as if it's a punishment. Why should anybody, in a democratic republic, have to make any case for such basic inalienable rights? That's the very foundation of basic human rights- they do not need to be justified, they are inviolable.

That's not an issue with SSM marriage though. That's an issue with marriage in general and denying those who do want to get married this right in this referendum will do nothing to further your cause. In the meantime, you recognise all the important aspects of marriage like inheritance, guardianship etc. which you'll be denying others over something unrelated to same-sex marriage

People tend to equate "same-sex marriage referendum" as "all possible forms of partnership referendum", which it isn't. Again, this is a referendum on just same-sex marriage. If polygamy is something you care about, society doesn't make massive leaps in progress. It takes small steps at a time.

It will only affect them if they are gay. As a gay person myself, I'd urge you to set aside your fears about same-sex marriage snowballing into allowing polygamy and using this as a vote against the concept of marriage altogether. Because if any of your children or nieces/nephews are gay and go through the hardship involved in growing up gay, would you be happy to tell them you voted to deny them the right to be equal when given the chance?

Apt username..

WoolyJumper wrote: »

Even if they are not gay, it could still affect them. They may have gay friends in the future. How their friends are treated in society will affect them. I assume at least some of them will have kids of their own someday. They could be gay.

You have a chance to define the type of society your kids, nephews, nieces and all their friends and acquaintances will grow up in. Vote for a fairer and more inclusive one.

Shoulda, woulda, coulda.. Inclusiveness is not always a good thing. Look what happened when we included Greece into EU & Romania too the gypsies that followed.. Immigrants in UK debates etc.. Now I'll get slaughtered for "comparing" gay people to gypsies and the inevitable replies of hate in which I never did just talking about inclusiveness..

I don't really feel strongly enough to make it to the polling station to vote either way at this point presently.. These things can change though!

P.S. Now the gypsies will be mad, how can we please everyone? Oh yeah I won't open my mouth again. Sorry!

P.P.S. No sympathy for you Greeks you know what you did!

Rightwing wrote: »

No one in this country. One of the best countries in the world to live in.

it is,just better for some.

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Some posters would do well to remember that just because someone else doesn't share your view or passion for or against a particular issue it doesn't make them wrong/stupid/narrow-minded/bigoted/<insert whatever similar term here> either

Some random issue, sure, I mean latte vs cappucino is not a moral issue.

This referendum is different, it's a moral issue, a human rights issue, and the no voters are all wrong, and on the wrong side of history.

orchidsrpretty wrote: »

Read what you wrote then what I did..



...I never said I WOULD purposely go out to prevent ANYTHING!! Stop making sh!t up.

I wasn't making shít up, and neither was I attacking you so I would appreciate it if you didnt act like I was.
I've read it. I still don't see what it's got to do with SSM, which is why I was asking.
Also, many people are going out purposely to prevent SSM happening by voting no. You said yourself you were considering voting no and by the looks of your posts, your justification seemed to be that not everyone gets what they want. Hence what I said.

orchidsrpretty wrote: »

Is it really though a human rights issue? Can it be talked about the same as genocide etc?? FWP or wtf? Please explain the suffering caused by outlawing/not recognising same sex marriage?

No-one is comparing it to genocide but it is a human rights issue. I don't want to sound condescending but i guess it is difficult to understand the more subtle discrimination and oppression felt by minorities in society, when you are not a minority. Marriage is valued by society. Many (if not the majority of people) aspire to falling in love and getting married some day. Most of those take it for granted that they can. I can't marry the person I love. Whether you view it that way or not doesnt matter, it sends very clear message to me how society values me and my relationship.

I turn on the tv/radio, read the paper, public forums, over hear conversations and debates about my life. Whether I am a danger to the institution of marriage, danger to children, about my ability to love, be faithful...and sometimes i hear much worse than that. This is my life we are talking about, not some philosophical discussion. I'm guessing this is not something you've ever experienced, take my word for it, it feels oppressive.

On top of that, simple things everyone takes for granted I can't do. I can't hold my boyfriends hand in public, or even just subtly flirt with him as we walk down the street. At worst i'm putting my life in danger, at best I 'll get stared at. Gay people also have to deal with coming out every time you meet someone new. That might not seem a big deal but it is. Knowing when the right to do it, how to do it, Not knowing how that person will react. It's stressful, its annoying, its awkward. And a lot of people, whether they mean to or not, will treat you differently when they find out. You become less of a person to them and more that "gay guy"

Sorry I went off on a tangent there, it wasn't strictly addressed to you. Just seems that there are a few posters here who seem to be under the impression that just because ISIS isn't throwing us off 17 story buildings that everything is okay. Things are still far from perfect. On a daily basis I experience subtle forms of oppression and discrimination.

WoolyJumper wrote: »

On top of that, simple things everyone takes for granted I can't do. I can't hold my boyfriends hand in public, or even just subtly flirt with him as we walk down the street. At worst i'm putting my life in danger, at best I 'll get stared at. Gay people also have to deal with coming out every time you meet someone new. That might not seem a big deal but it is. Knowing when the right to do it, how to do it, Not knowing how that person will react. It's stressful, its annoying, its awkward. And a lot of people, whether they mean to or not, will treat you differently when they find out. You become less of a person to them and more that "gay guy"

I'm afraid though that none of these (legitimate) points you raise will be addressed by this referendum though. People who stare, shout abuse, or react badly will still do so regardless of the outcome.

Unfortunately this vote will not result in a switch being flicked that changes all that. Just to put this whole thing in context.

floggg wrote: »

What was the suffering caused by requiring black people to use separate water fountains or sit at the back of the bus?

I dunno can you tell me?

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I'm afraid though that none of these (legitimate) points you raise will be addressed by this referendum though. People who stare, shout abuse, or react badly will still do so regardless of the outcome.

Unfortunately this vote will not result in a switch being flicked that changes all that. Just to put this whole thing in context.

A yes vote will go a way towards it though. It will affirm the equality of our relationships, and us as persons. It will make it clear that there is nothing abnormal, or wrong about our relationships and that they are equally valued.

It will force those who stare or threaten to confront their prejudices and ask what it is that bothers them.

and it will let us know that we are seen as equal by our own state.

orchidsrpretty wrote: »

... 99 problems... Do you have a grasp of Engrish?

The problems with SSM, that you listed in your first post. I apologise if I didn't make that clear. No need for the sneery comment.

orchidsrpretty wrote: »

So you're saying I would go out to use your words

WTF? So am I making **** up then? Are you calling me a liar?

I don't even.. wtf is this..

*Edit not posting again in this thread so adios!

I think you're severely misunderstanding my posts. I have not called you a liar anywhere. I'm actually at a complete loss as to why you're being so hostile towards me.

orchidsrpretty wrote: »

Is it really though a human rights issue? Can it be talked about the same as genocide etc?? FWP or wtf? Please explain the suffering caused by outlawing/not recognising same sex marriage?

The right to marry is a human right.

Article 16 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights


Article 16: Right to marriage and family
Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.
Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.
The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State.

http://m.independent.ie/opinion/comment/children-unsure-of-sexual-identity-are-listening-to-debate-30997863.html

James Reilly wrote:

However, we must be aware that children are listening to the public debate. I am especially aware that children who are unsure or uncomfortable about their sexual identity are listening to the public debate. This is a very vulnerable group of our population. The difficulties they experience were highlighted by a recent study which showed that they are: 20 times more likely to drink alcohol frequently; 20 times more likely to use marijuana; and, most shockingly, 14 times more likely to attempt suicide.

I urge all sides in the referendum to be aware that these children are listening to their statements and their arguments. I would plead with them to be moderate in their language and sensitive and considerate in their comments.

These children's lives are difficult. Because they feel different. Because they feel that society judges them. Because they feel that society doesn't fully accept them. Because they feel that society doesn't want to treat them the same as everybody else.

This referendum offers us all an ideal opportunity to send them a message.

A message that we care. By voting Yes in May, you will be telling them that you want them to be treated the same as everybody else, regardless of their sexual orientation. By voting Yes in May, you will be telling them that you see them as equal citizens.