How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

Rightwing · 17-02-2015 07:25PM

WoolyJumper wrote: »

Please do inform me of discrimination and how it is experienced.

I mean what would I and other minorities in this country know about discrimination?

Very little.

People think they are being discriminated against when they clearly are not.

Paupers think they are being discriminated against. Foreigners do. Uneducated do. The list is endless.

But the reality is none of them are.

jobbridge4life · 17-02-2015 07:32PM

Rightwing wrote: »

Very little.

People think they are being discriminated against when they clearly are not.

Paupers think they are being discriminated against. Foreigners do. Uneducated do. The list is endless.

But the reality is none of them are.

Who, in your opinion Rightwing, is/are being discriminated against?

Rightwing · 17-02-2015 07:39PM

jobbridge4life wrote: »

Who, in your opinion Rightwing, is/are being discriminated against?

No one in this country. One of the best countries in the world to live in.

Nodin · 17-02-2015 07:41PM

Rightwing wrote: »

Very little.

People think they are being discriminated against when they clearly are not.

Paupers think they are being discriminated against. Foreigners do. Uneducated do. The list is endless.

But the reality is none of them are.

And we're on to sweeping generalisations I see.

shruikan2553 · 17-02-2015 07:44PM

Rightwing wrote: »

No one in this country. One of the best countries in the world to live in.

Yeah, you mean the country where a woman won a case in NUIG over discrimination or where we have legislation being put in place to prevent gay people being fired as teachers?

jobbridge4life · 17-02-2015 07:52PM

Rightwing wrote: »

No one in this country. One of the best countries in the world to live in.

This is definitely one of the best countries to live in, IMHO, you are right. Discrimination can and does occur regularly in-spite of this. For instance, a straight person can marry the person they love, I cannot. Not to mention the myriad other examples of discrimination that occur on an hourly basis in our nation against a multitude of people for a multitude of reasons.

Acknowledgement of and fighting discrimination where and when it occurs is not an attempt to diminish our nation, or reject its achievements. Rather it is an effort to strengthen it and further those achievements. We really can all benefit from gay marriage and from a more equal society.

K4t · 17-02-2015 07:52PM

Rightwing wrote: »

No one in this country. One of the best countries in the world to live in.

Rightwing wrote: »

Very little.

People think they are being discriminated against when they clearly are not.

Paupers think they are being discriminated against. Foreigners do. Uneducated do. The list is endless.

But the reality is none of them are.

You have touched on a very interesting and important point here regarding this referendum. That Ireland is in many ways such a liberal and tolerant Western country, has made many people susceptible to the belief that this is the way life has always been; they cannot imagine life being any other way. Your average young, heterosexual male for example in Ireland is one of the luckiest people on earth; they've hit the jackpot; And they are exactly the biggest demographic I expect to NOT turn out to vote on referendum day; they are VICTIMS of their own liberty and ignorance. I'm a part of this group myself so I'm also speaking from experience. However, having said all of that, it is still the right thing to vote YES in this referendum, Rightwing. Your reasons for voting NO are similar I imagine to those I mentioned above, with some homophobia thrown in; but surely you would not let something as silly as homophobia or sexuality, get in the way of voting for human rights for all citizens? This isn't about homosexuals, it's about, you, me, your family, your friends, your future family and friends, it concerns us all. By voting YES we are voting for OURSELVES. When I vote YES in May, I am voting for Irish people, including yourself and all the other NO voters.

Rightwing · 17-02-2015 08:11PM

K4t wrote: »

You have touched on a very interesting and important point here regarding this referendum. That Ireland is in many ways such a liberal and tolerant Western country, has made many people susceptible to the belief that this is the way life has always been; they cannot imagine life being any other way. Your average young, heterosexual male for example in Ireland is one of the luckiest people on earth; they've hit the jackpot; And they are exactly the biggest demographic I expect to NOT turn out to vote on referendum day; they are VICTIMS of their own liberty and ignorance. I'm a part of this group myself so I'm also speaking from experience. However, having said all of that, it is still the right thing to vote YES in this referendum, Rightwing. Your reasons for voting NO are similar I imagine to those I mentioned above, with some homophobia thrown in; but surely you would not let something as silly as homophobia or sexuality, get in the way of voting for human rights for all citizens? This isn't about homosexuals, it's about, you, me, your family, your friends, your future family and friends, it concerns us all. By voting YES we are voting for OURSELVES. When I vote YES in May, I am voting for Irish people, including yourself and all the other NO voters.

Fair enough, I think you are caught up on some technicality somewhere.

I'm not homophobic, rather I just don't want to see this thing get out of hand altogether. Next thing is it'll almost be a requirement to be gay to progress.
All that said, I respect everyone's vote.

Annasopra · 17-02-2015 08:23PM

bodice ripper wrote: »

I never need encouraging.

But do you need leading on?

Pherekydes · 17-02-2015 08:23PM

Rightwing wrote: »

Very little.

People think they are being discriminated against when they clearly are not.

Paupers think they are being discriminated against. Foreigners do. Uneducated do. The list is endless.

But the reality is none of them are.

Paupers?

A clear knock on.

Nodin · 17-02-2015 08:23PM

Rightwing wrote: »

Fair enough, I think you are caught up on some technicality somewhere.

I'm not homophobic, rather I just don't want to see this thing get out of hand altogether. Next thing is it'll almost be a requirement to be gay to progress.
All that said, I respect everyone's vote.

It is not actually a transmittable thing, so you needn't worry about catching it.

Pherekydes · 17-02-2015 08:25PM

Rightwing wrote: »

I'm not homophobic, rather I just don't want to see this thing get out of hand altogether. Next thing is it'll almost be a requirement to be gay to progress.

Clear offside, ref!

Annasopra · 17-02-2015 08:25PM

Rightwing wrote: »

Fair enough, I think you are caught up on some technicality somewhere.

I'm not homophobic, rather I just don't want to see this thing get out of hand altogether. Next thing is it'll almost be a requirement to be gay to progress.
All that said, I respect everyone's vote.

What thing?

bodice ripper · 17-02-2015 08:25PM

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

But do you need leading on?

Well, it does make a girl feel special...

K4t · 17-02-2015 08:29PM

Rightwing wrote: »

Fair enough, I think you are caught up on some technicality somewhere.

I'm not homophobic, rather I just don't want to see this thing get out of hand altogether. Next thing is it'll almost be a requirement to be gay to progress.
All that said, I respect everyone's vote.

With respect, I think it is you who is caught up on some imaginary technicality somewhere. Allowing same-sex marriage will not give homosexuals any more rights under the law than you or I or anyone else; it will simply perhaps give them the same rights. I understand your fear, I understand you have the right to vote anyway you please in a democracy, but I plead with you to try and see this from a human rights perspective rather than merely a gays rights' issue. This is about equal rights for your fellow man and woman. As you correctly said in your post, you and I have never been without equal rights, and most likely never will be living in Ireland; what is so scary about allowing others to be on the same footing as you and I? To simply have the same right we do? It is possible, however improbable, that you and I might some day be the ones looking for others to vote on our right to have equality under the law? Voting YES in this referendum will not make that more probable, it will simply make it more probable that our fellow citizens will vote YES for our equal rights if that day ever comes.

I plead with you to vote YES; not for gays, or lesbians, or lgbt people, but for yourself, and for me as a heterosexual young Irish man.

Rightwing · 17-02-2015 08:33PM

K4t wrote: »

With respect, I think it is you who is caught up on some imaginary technicality somewhere. Allowing same-sex marriage will not give homosexuals any more rights under the law than you or I or anyone else; it will simply perhaps give them the same rights. I understand your fear, I understand you have the right to vote anyway you please in a democracy, but I plead with you to try and see this from a human rights perspective rather than merely a gays rights' issue. This is about equal rights for your fellow man and woman. As you correctly said in your post, you and I have never been without equal rights, and most likely never will be living in Ireland; what is so scary about allowing others to be on the same footing as you and I? To simply have the same right we do? It is possible, however improbable, that you and I might some day be the ones looking for others to vote on our right to have equality under the law? Voting YES in this referendum will not make that more probable, it will simply make it more probable that our fellow citizens will vote YES for our equal rights if that day ever comes.

I plead with you to vote YES; not for gays, or lesbians, or lgbt people, but for yourself, and for me as a heterosexual young Irish man.

Don't worry, this will go through by around 4:1

aloyisious · 17-02-2015 08:36PM

Rightwing wrote: »

Fair enough, I think you are caught up on some technicality somewhere.

I'm not homophobic, rather I just don't want to see this thing get out of hand altogether. Next thing is it'll almost be a requirement to be gay to progress.
All that said, I respect everyone's vote.

Lol, I can see the interview board now checking the boxes on the interviewee's CV. Master's degree - check. UCD - check. FG voter - check. Gay - check "congratulations, you seem to be the best candidate for the job, welcome to the lodge"

Pherekydes · 17-02-2015 08:37PM

Rightwing wrote: »

Don't worry, this will go through by around 4:1

Unlikely the yes vote will approach 80%. Many polls are in the 70-80% region, but on the actual day it will drop back to 60% or so. That will still be a solid win.

K4t · 17-02-2015 08:39PM

Rightwing wrote: »

Don't worry, this will go through by around 4:1

Hopefully.

Would I be right in assuming you a fellow straight male, approx. aged between 20 and 40? When this referendum does pass in May, and it is championed throughout the world as a victory for human rights and democracy, you might still stand there proud in knowing you exercised your right to vote NO. But as the years pass, and you grow older, and eventually into an old man of hopefully a high age, and you see how normal and natural same sex marriages are, how happy and loving those marriages are, how nobody can even believe why there was opposition in the first place, you might even have kids or grand-kids who avail of the right; It is perhaps only then that you will think back with regret, that you opposed that equal right of others to be happy, to marry just like other loving people. You have a chance in May to be part of something historic, of something that you can tell your grandchildren you were a part of; democracy in action in its truest form. By simply ticking YES instead of NO you can be a part of it and be proud of it as an old man.

Rightwing · 17-02-2015 08:48PM

No, I am not in that age group.

If someone is gay good luck to them, they don't have to worry about any 1 vote in this upcoming referendum.

conorh91 · 17-02-2015 08:50PM

K4t wrote: »

it is still the right thing to vote YES in this referendum, Rightwing. Your reasons for voting NO are similar I imagine to those I mentioned above, with some homophobia thrown in

Wow. I'm not sure the government's "don't patronize them" circular has reached everyone yet.

orchidsrpretty · 17-02-2015 08:56PM

started off thinking no then yes as we should all be allowed live and let live etc, then I was thinking of not voting and leave it to those with strong yes/no views to battle it out.

Started thinking of voting no again for a number of reasons, top one being a no vote would make lgbt make a stronger case for it in future, as a poster early on stated why does the government need to get involved any way, for tax purposes, inheritance everything else you could just register with revenue idk, but as usual the scope is not far reaching enough to included polygamy and other combos out there.. And if yes goes ahead others will be neglected for another long time.

Still don't know how I'll vote with young children in family with nieces nephews and my own son and daughter will this affect them?

K4t · 17-02-2015 08:59PM

conorh91 wrote: »

Wow. I'm not sure the government's "don't patronize them" circular has reached everyone yet.

Here comes, Conor, taking things out of context to score some points in his own private little game.

You're more trouble than you're worth, my friend. At least Rightwing is honest in his convictions, which is more than can be said for you.

Ave Sodalis · 17-02-2015 09:00PM

orchidsrpretty wrote: »

started off thinking no then yes as we should all be allowed live and let live etc, then I was thinking of not voting and leave it to those with strong yes/no views to battle it out.

Started thinking of voting no again for a number of reasons, top one being a no vote would make lgbt make a stronger case for it in future, as a poster early on stated why does the government need to get involved any way, for tax purposes, inheritance everything else you could just register with revenue idk, but as usual the scope is not far reaching enough to included polygamy and other combos out there.. And if yes goes ahead others will be neglected for another long time.

Still don't know how I'll vote with young children in family with nieces nephews and my own son and daughter will this affect them?

In fairness, the problems you have are problems with marriage in general and I wouldn't consider it fair to take your problems with marriage out on people who want to get married (Or at least have that option).

With regard to affecting your family: If they're gay, yes it'll affect them. If they're not, then no, it'll not affect them.

WoolyJumper · 17-02-2015 09:07PM

Rightwing wrote: »

Very little.

People think they are being discriminated against when they clearly are not.

Paupers think they are being discriminated against. Foreigners do. Uneducated do. The list is endless.

But the reality is none of them are.

Very easy to hold that position when you are not one of the above. What do you regard as discrimination then?

Anita Blow · 17-02-2015 09:20PM

orchidsrpretty wrote: »

Started thinking of voting no again for a number of reasons, top one being a no vote would make lgbt make a stronger case for it in future

I just don't get this logic at all, it almost sounds as if it's a punishment. Why should anybody, in a democratic republic, have to make any case for such basic inalienable rights? That's the very foundation of basic human rights- they do not need to be justified, they are inviolable.

orchidsrpretty wrote: »

why does the government need to get involved any way, for tax purposes, inheritance everything else you could just register with revenue

That's not an issue with SSM marriage though. That's an issue with marriage in general and denying those who do want to get married this right in this referendum will do nothing to further your cause. In the meantime, you recognise all the important aspects of marriage like inheritance, guardianship etc. which you'll be denying others over something unrelated to same-sex marriage

orchidsrpretty wrote: »

As usual the scope is not far reaching enough to included polygamy and other combos out there.. And if yes goes ahead others will be neglected for another long time.

People tend to equate "same-sex marriage referendum" as "all possible forms of partnership referendum", which it isn't. Again, this is a referendum on just same-sex marriage. If polygamy is something you care about, society doesn't make massive leaps in progress. It takes small steps at a time.

orchidsrpretty wrote: »

Still don't know how I'll vote with young children in family with nieces nephews and my own son and daughter will this affect them?

It will only affect them if they are gay. As a gay person myself, I'd urge you to set aside your fears about same-sex marriage snowballing into allowing polygamy and using this as a vote against the concept of marriage altogether. Because if any of your children or nieces/nephews are gay and go through the hardship involved in growing up gay, would you be happy to tell them you voted to deny them the right to be equal when given the chance?

K4t · 17-02-2015 09:24PM

Anita Blow wrote: »

I just don't get this logic at all, it almost sounds as if it's a punishment. Why should anybody, in a democratic republic, have to make any case for such basic inalienable rights?

Human nature, the worst part, and a result of a deeply, devoutly religious culture.

WoolyJumper · 17-02-2015 09:31PM

orchidsrpretty wrote: »

Still don't know how I'll vote with young children in family with nieces nephews and my own son and daughter will this affect them?

Even if they are not gay, it could still affect them. They may have gay friends in the future. How their friends are treated in society will affect them. I assume at least some of them will have kids of their own someday. They could be gay.

You have a chance to define the type of society your kids, nephews, nieces and all their friends and acquaintances will grow up in. Vote for a fairer and more inclusive one.

conorh91 · 17-02-2015 09:48PM

K4t wrote: »

Here comes, Conor, taking things out of context to score some points in his own private little game.

You're more trouble than you're worth, my friend. At least Rightwing is honest in his convictions, which is more than can be said for you.

I'm convinced you're a No voter, because the amount of antagonizing you do will only ever entrench the No side.

You're right, I advance plenty of ideas that I don't necessarily agree with, with the belief that at least a real debate exposes the fickle arguments on both sides. If my argument loses, fair enough, at least we know it wasn't a good argument after all.

But if you go around patronizing people with slurs of homophobia, the debate is automatically cancelled. Attitudes like yours are the single biggest obstacle the Yes side needs to overcome.

K4t · 17-02-2015 09:54PM

conorh91 wrote: »

I'm convinced you're a No voter, because the amount of antagonizing you do will only ever entrench the No side.

You're right, I advance plenty of ideas that I don't necessarily agree with, with the belief that at least a real debate exposes the fickle arguments on both sides. If my argument loses, fair enough, at least we know it wasn't a good argument after all.

But if you go around patronizing people with slurs of homophobia, the debate is automatically cancelled. Attitudes like yours are the single biggest obstacle the Yes side needs to overcome.

No, you're not. You are simply taking issue with me on a personal level as per usual. Antagonizing? No, you misunderstand. The poster suggested they were voting NO because of a fear of gay rights. I simply attempted to make it clear that it is not about gay rights, but HUMAN RIGHTS. I empathised with his views, and explained how I understood them perfectly as a fellow heterosexual male. You Conor, are creating a problem here, with me, and another poster, where there is none.

If you actually took the time to read Rightwing's posts, Conor, you would understand that I was not being in any way patronising or condescending. I was merely attempting to change the poster's mind, and to vote for human rights instead of gay rights, which they made very clear they were slightly weary off. Please do everyone a favour and stop creating issues where there are none and taking what I say out of context to score points and receive thanks. Leave that to the NO side.

How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

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