Pressures around Church weddings

Dog of Tears · 11-02-2015 06:52PM

Neyite wrote: »

It makes perfect sense. Why should I compromise for a third party who has no role whatsoever in the ceremony, in my relationship, or in my potential marriage?

But you're willing to compromise if your partner was religious?

In one case the mother is the third party, in the other it's God - exact same thing.
Only difference is you're willing to compromise for one belief but not another.

MrWalsh · 11-02-2015 06:54PM

Dog of Tears wrote: »

But you're willing to compromise if your partner was religious?

Replace 'mother' with 'God' - exact same thing.
Only difference is you're willing to compromise for one belief but not another.

Wanting to do something to please your mother isn't a belief system.

mikeym · 11-02-2015 06:54PM

It can upset family members who are deeply religous if a couple go down the civil route.

At least if you go down the civil way you dont have to do a marriage course.

FairytaleGirl · 11-02-2015 06:56PM

This thread sorta saddens me a bit.

I would love a church wedding (with all my family there, and to be seen as married in the eyes of God as well as the law)

But I'm not allowed seeing as my partner has the same sexy bits as me and this really bother other (mostly already married) people

11-02-2015 06:56PM

MrWalsh wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with this at all and in fact you are lucky that you share a similar outlook with them such that their opinion colours your own. But if they had a completely different opinion to you on something important would you go your own way?

If I was advised against something I'd thing long and hard before going ahead but that's not to say I wouldn't make the final call myself.

seamusk84 · 11-02-2015 06:59PM

I did a church wedding and am an athiest. It was for her and her family.

No big deal like, sure it's all the same to me and it kept the family happy. Best to avoid drama around weddings as it can really get heated and will be brought up for years and years.

Enjoy the ceremony and have fun at the reception and dinner. Seriously best way to deal with the situation.

eviltwin · 11-02-2015 07:00PM

Galilea Cold Miner wrote: »

If I was advised against something I'd thing long and hard before going ahead but that's not to say I wouldn't make the final call myself.

Are you capable of independent thought at all? God, I think I'd crack up if my kid was consulting me on every decision. Time to cut those apron strings. Your partner must be very patient having to put up with every decision being run past the in laws.

c_man · 11-02-2015 07:05PM

What are other Christian (non-Catholic) marriage ceremonies, in general, like in Ireland? Shorter, longer, better craic...? If you're forking out the cash, then it seems prudent to shop around.

Actually I'm not so sure a Protestant wedding would go down much better than a civil ceremony to a lot of the relatives being described here :pac:

11-02-2015 07:06PM

eviltwin wrote: »

Are you capable of independent thought at all? God, I think I'd crack up if my kid was consulting me on every decision. Time to cut those apron strings. Your partner must be very patient having to put up with every decision being run past the in laws.

Of course I'm capable of independent thought but I can be indecisive at times and feel much better about a decision having run it past someone (usually my parents) and get encouraged one way or the other. It has no effect whatsoever on my relationship, why would it sure most decisions are stuff effecting myself and my own finances or things I'm spending money on.

Eutow · 11-02-2015 07:06PM

seamusk84 wrote: »

I did a church wedding and am an athiest. It was for her and her family.

No big deal like, sure it's all the same to me and it kept the family happy. Best to avoid drama around weddings as it can really get heated and will be brought up for years and years.

Enjoy the ceremony and have fun at the reception and dinner. Seriously best way to deal with the situation.

Maybe to you it's no big deal but I couldn't live like that, constantly having to shutup, or not being able to do things my way in case I offend somebody else with my beliefs or opinions. Screw that. Where does it stop? Having to get your child baptised to keep the in-laws or whoever happy? Send the child to a religious school instead of a non-religious one? No thanks.

nc19 · 11-02-2015 07:09PM

logik wrote:

How many of you have had a church wedding and actually wanted to have the church wedding? Or were you under pressure from family and parents to have a church wedding?

I feel no pressure at all.

my mother wanted a church wedding, I didn't one so I didn't have one. simple.

same as christenings.

Boom__Boom · 11-02-2015 07:09PM

Just on the stats I posted, I have mentioned them to a fair chunk of people since I found them a few weeks back and pretty much everyone has been surprised by fact that non Catholic weddings made up 38% of weddings in 2013 - basically almost 2 out of 5.

I think in a sense this is an area where popular culture, especially movies & television haven't caught up with the reality on the ground.

From those stats, it looks like it's only a matter of time before the majority of weddings are non Catholic weddings and it will be interesting to see how low the rate goes over the next 10/20/50 years before the numbers stabilise - I think that in terms of the next generation especially a serious chunk of those who went along with having a Catholic wedding because it was traditional/the done thing/expected of them/it was the easiest option, very few of them are going to be bother about expecting the same of their offspring.

kylith · 11-02-2015 07:10PM

Galilea Cold Miner wrote: »

Each to their own I suppose but I'd discuss nearly everything with my parents before making decisions as I value their opinion very much.

There's valuing their opinion and then there's allowing them to dictate to you. I will ask my parents' opinion, then ruminate on the issue taking all sides into account and come to my own decision. If I didn't then, for example, my bathroom would currently be clad in shiny 1980's faux marble tiles rather than having a swish contemporary look and I wouldn't be happy, but my mother would. But since it's not her bathroom then what would be the point of that? The same with weddings. The parents might prefer a church but, at the end of the day, it's not their wedding so they can advise all they want but the final call lies with the bride and groom and parents should respect that.

Ghost Buster · 11-02-2015 07:10PM

eviltwin wrote: »

There is close and then there's close. We'd be very close to my mother in law, she's a good friend and we are in regular contact but we don't consult her on our decisions, we present them as a done deal. People are free to give their opinions but our marriage and family matters are not up for negotiation. We're adults, there comes a time you have to set boundaries.

Yup. The alternative is coliqually known as 'Making a rod for your own back'.

Ghost Buster · 11-02-2015 07:11PM

eviltwin wrote: »

There is close and then there's close. We'd be very close to my mother in law, she's a good friend and we are in regular contact but we don't consult her on our decisions, we present them as a done deal. People are free to give their opinions but our marriage and family matters are not up for negotiation. We're adults, there comes a time you have to set boundaries.

Yup. The alternative is coliqually known as 'Making a rod for your own back'.

lazygal · 11-02-2015 07:12PM

Galilea Cold Miner wrote: »

Of course I'm capable of independent thought but I can be indecisive at times and feel much better about a decision having run it past someone (usually my parents) and get encouraged one way or the other. It has no effect whatsoever on my relationship, why would it sure most decisions are stuff effecting myself and my own finances or things I'm spending money on.

I see me and my partner as a unit. I'd be really upset if he went to talk to his parents about decisions before talking to me, and let them encourage him one way or the other. That's not to say we don't both ask our parents for advice (sure I was only onto them recently about some DIY stuff and we might ask them if a holiday destination is worth the hassle) but on the big stuff, especially our children, we discuss and make the decisions as a family. At what point do you think you should or will stop letting your parents into your decision making process? When you get married?
I can't see how you consulting your parents on decisions has no impact whatsoever on your relationship. Do finances not matter in your relationship? How serious is your relationship if you discuss finances with your parents?

MrWalsh · 11-02-2015 07:14PM

Boom__Boom wrote: »

Just on the stats I posted, I have mentioned them to a fair chunk of people since I found them a few weeks back and pretty much everyone has been surprised by fact that non Catholic weddings made up 38% of weddings in 2013 - basically almost 2 out of 5.

I think in a sense this is an area where popular culture, especially movies & television haven't caught up with the reality on the ground.

From those stats, it looks like it's only a matter of time before the majority of weddings are non Catholic weddings and it will be interesting to see how low the rate goes over the next 10/20/50 years before the numbers stabilise - I think that in terms of the next generation especially a serious chunk of those who went along with having a Catholic wedding because it was traditional/the done thing/expected of them/it was the easiest option, very few of them are going to be bother about expecting the same of their offspring.

The only reason the numbers aren't more in favour of civil ceremonies is due to the HSE not getting the finger out and having staff do weekend weddings and a general lack of speed in the entire process also (we had to wait 3 months just for the appointment to give 3 months notice so scrapped all that and went abroad). When you add in civil partnerships and hopefully civil same sex marriages (that won't be allowed in a church), those percentages are going to keep dropping for church weddings.

Eutow · 11-02-2015 07:15PM

Dog of Tears wrote: »

But you're willing to compromise if your partner was religious?

In one case the mother is the third party, in the other it's God - exact same thing.
Only difference is you're willing to compromise for one belief but not another.

In one case, partner (a) wants a church wedding but partner (b) doesn't, so partner (b) would comprise their beliefs for partner (a) because he or she loves them.

In the second case, partner (a) doesn't want a church wedding but feels pressure from partents, in-laws or whoever to have it there, so reluctantly will go along with it. Partner (b) who doesn't want the church wedding anyway says "no we will do what we want to do and have a non-church wedding'.

Nowhere in the above scenarios is anyone comprising their belief for god.

The first scenario somebody is going against their belief for their partner, not god.

The second scenario both people are going against the wishes of the parents, in-laws etc. Again not god.

Boom__Boom · 11-02-2015 07:15PM

FairytaleGirl wrote: »

This thread sorta saddens me a bit.

I would love a church wedding (with all my family there, and to be seen as married in the eyes of God as well as the law)

But I'm not allowed seeing as my partner has the same sexy bits as me and this really bother other (mostly already married) people

I have wondered for a while about the possibility of getting hold of a non-consecrated Church that has fallen out of use and simply renting it out so that anyone who wants could hold a civil ceremony (and soon hopefully a civil wedding) there.

I'm convinced there are a serious chunk of the folk who get married in churches get married in a church because it is a Church in the architectural sense as opposed to having anything at all to do with religion.

Boom__Boom · 11-02-2015 07:19PM

MrWalsh wrote: »

The only reason the numbers aren't more in favour of civil ceremonies is due to the HSE not getting the finger out and having staff do weekend weddings and a general lack of speed in the entire process also (we had to wait 3 months just for the appointment to give 3 months notice so scrapped all that and went abroad). When you add in civil partnerships and hopefully civil same sex marriages (that won't be allowed in a church), those percentages are going to keep dropping for church weddings.

Yeah the fact that weekend weddings aren't available via the HSE is probably a serious drag on the civil ceremony numbers - for a serious chunk of people arranging a weekend wedding is far easier than a week-day wedding.

11-02-2015 07:19PM

kylith wrote: »

There's valuing their opinion and then there's allowing them to dictate to you.

Well I meant valuing their opinion but on serious matters people with experience tend to know the right way to go about things.

lazygal wrote: »

At what point do you think you should or will stop letting your parents into your decision making process? When you get married?
I can't see how you consulting your parents on decisions has no impact whatsoever on your relationship. Do finances not matter in your relationship? How serious is your relationship if you discuss finances with your parents?

At this moment in time our finances are still our own business whereas I have some cross over in certain aspects of finances with my parents and probably always will to a certain degree. On important matters I would always consult them at some point of the process in particular on matters involving money.

MrWalsh · 11-02-2015 07:20PM

Boom__Boom wrote: »

I have wondered for a while about the possibility of getting hold of a non-consecrated Church that has fallen out of use and simply renting it out so that anyone who wants could hold a civil ceremony (and soon hopefully a civil wedding) there.

I'm convinced there are a serious chunk of the folk who get married in churches get married in a church because it is a Church in the architectural sense as opposed to having anything at all to do with religion.

There was one for sale in Meath last year for 50k. I kinda fancied it to convert, it overlooked a graveyard too. In the end, heating it would have been a killer!

lazygal · 11-02-2015 07:22PM

Galilea Cold Miner wrote: »

At this moment in time our finances are still our own business whereas I have common financial business with my parents and probably always will. On important matters I would always consult them at some point of the process in particular on matter involving money.

I'd be very wary of marrying someone who said he would always consult his parents about matters involving money. I've seen relationships ruined because of things like that. There's not a chance I'd tell either set of our parents about how we deal with our finances. At what point will you start making decisions independently of them? Who will you consult when they die?

todders · 11-02-2015 07:23PM

FairytaleGirl wrote: »

This thread sorta saddens me a bit.

I would love a church wedding (with all my family there, and to be seen as married in the eyes of God as well as the law)

But I'm not allowed seeing as my partner has the same sexy bits as me and this really bother other (mostly already married) people

Why would you be bothered since the church themselves don't ( and claims God doesn't) recognise your marriage?

Why would you want to even associate with that nonsense?

eviltwin · 11-02-2015 07:26PM

lazygal wrote: »

I'd be very wary of marrying someone who said he would always consult his parents about matters involving money. I've seen relationships ruined because of things like that. There's not a chance I'd tell either set of our parents about how we deal with our finances. At what point will you start making decisions independently of them? Who will you consult when they die?

I would be the same, I'd feel undermined knowing my partner needed approval from his parents. It's one thing to get advice from people, it's another to consult them about everything.

Boom__Boom · 11-02-2015 07:31PM

MrWalsh wrote: »

There was one for sale in Meath last year for 50k. I kinda fancied it to convert, it overlooked a graveyard too. In the end, heating it would have been a killer!

The thing is that I reckon over the next few years there are going to be a lot more churches coming on the market - you only have to look at the age profiles of the religious and the numbers being ordained to see that very soon there is going to be nowhere near enough priests/staff to use the number of churches in the country.

It will be very interesting to see what all the spare buildings end up being used for.

awec · 11-02-2015 07:31PM

Galilea Cold Miner wrote: »

Each to their own I suppose but I'd discuss nearly everything with my parents before making decisions as I value their opinion very much.

I'd see nothing wrong with it, one of the reasons I want to build at home myself if possible so I can be in and out of home daily.

Would you not want to go out and face the world on your own for a while, out of your mum and dad's shadow?

I am not having a go at you, but I would be concerned about someone who feels the need to always consult their parents on decisions and has a need to see them every day. That's pretty much still full dependence on the parents at 30 years old. That cannot be healthy.

Eutow · 11-02-2015 07:32PM

Boom__Boom wrote: »

The thing is that I reckon over the next few years there are going to be a lot more churches coming on the market - you only have to look at the age profiles of the religious and the numbers being ordained to see that very soon there is going to be nowhere near enough priests/staff to use the number of churches in the country.

It will be very interesting to see what all the spare buildings end up being used for.

Wetherspoons?.......

Boom__Boom · 11-02-2015 07:35PM

Eutow wrote: »

Wetherspoons?.......

Well there is The Church in Dublin and there is an old church in Killorgin that is now a tapas bar/restaurant.....so not beyond the bounds of possibility.

Maybe I need to amend the business plan so that it's do alternative weddings during the day and then have a bar/nightclub in the evening.

lazygal · 11-02-2015 07:35PM

Boom__Boom wrote: »

The thing is that I reckon over the next few years there are going to be a lot more churches coming on the market - you only have to look at the age profiles of the religious and the numbers being ordained to see that very soon there is going to be nowhere near enough priests/staff to use the number of churches in the country.

It will be very interesting to see what all the spare buildings end up being used for.

A lot of the churches are awful though-they have no architectural merit whatsoever and wouldn't be that nice as wedding venues. I think another issue will be couples being able to get a priest to marry them. There's a massive shortage of priests in many areas. That might away those who are a la carte about a church wedding towards easier options.

Pressures around Church weddings

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