Pressures around Church weddings

MrWalsh · 11-02-2015 05:42PM

Galilea Cold Miner wrote: »

How extended in family are you talking about when talking about uniformity?

I know myself or my two siblings are not pretending and all three of us have gone to college, lived away for a while or are living away from home. My parents obviously and the majority of my aunts and uncles also. Only really have one aunt who I wouldn't really call religious and her kids ( my cousins) are really the only ones not on a path to continuing to be Catholics. Bar them all my other cousins are 18 or under and go to mass with their parents etc.

Absolutely, my parents or other relations would be fine about it. Of course they may initially try to advise against it but after that they would not make an issue of it. How do I know you ask, well I know and am very close to my family and know exactly how they feel about things.

Fair enough Nox, you've an interesting family so. Good to hear that some practicing Catholics are so tolerant, ye could teach many others a lesson in that.

11-02-2015 05:45PM

Malari wrote: »

Totally agree. It's something I'd compromise on for a partner, but not a family member. But then I wouldn't be in a relationship with a person who was religious and wanted a church wedding in any case. And anyone who knows us knows a civil ceremony is the only viable option anyway.

I'm intrigued by how people will avoid going out with people who are religious. Would they just end a relationship over it and for no other reason.

If you add up the religious people and those who are not overly religious but will very much want a traditional wedding the pool of remaining people in Ireland will be quite small.

seenitall · 11-02-2015 05:46PM

Had a registry wedding, back in 2003, when it was €20 rather than €250!

I'm atheist, and luckily for me, so are my ex and my boyfriend now. I seem to be attracted to people who share my world-views and are as opinionated and ungovernable in their personal choices as I am. Not always a good thing, of course. But not always a bad thing, either.

One eyed Jack · 11-02-2015 05:46PM

MrWalsh wrote: »

Thanks One Eyed Jack, that question was actually for Nox. I could have gone home and announced I was converting to anything (more shocking probably would have been if I had gone home and announced I was taking Catholicism seriously!), but my family culture didn't include religious indoctrination, and there is no way anyone would have described us as "all practicing Catholics". But Nox says that that is true of his family, hence I asked him if it would matter if he decided to change religion. Obviously if your family are not all of one faith or care about one faith it wouldn't matter. But Nox has claimed he is a "real" Catholic, not a sham, goes to mass every week etc, so I'm curious to know if such a family of real Catholics would accept that.

Yeah I can see where you're coming from, but we were all raised as Roman Catholic in my family, my parents were a bit more the bible-bashy raving hypocrite type, the "do as I say, not as I do" if you will, but I'm the only one of my family that would be a practising Roman Catholic nowadays, and my family don't accept it at all, hence why none of them were invited to my wedding. I couldn't be dealing with that sort of drama :pac:

Family culture is a widely recognised academic concept, I can recommend some further reading for you if you wish to learn more on the subject?

Genuinely I actually would like to read up on it if you have some links! I'm always interested in anthropology and sociology

eviltwin · 11-02-2015 05:51PM

Galilea Cold Miner wrote: »

I'm intrigued by how people will avoid going out with people who are religious. Would they just end a relationship over it and for no other reason.

If you add up the religious people and those who are not overly religious but will very much want a traditional wedding the pool of remaining people in Ireland will be quite small.

I couldn't date a religious person, I'm too old to deal with that. I want someone who is on the same page as me on social issues and as I tend to support everything the church hates I can't see how we could make it work. I don't want to be with someone I feel is judging me or my loved ones.

MrWalsh · 11-02-2015 05:51PM

Galilea Cold Miner wrote: »

I'm intrigued by how people will avoid going out with people who are religious. Would they just end a relationship over it and for no other reason.

I wouldn't get into a relationship with a religious person in the first place. It'd be the same as any other one of my deal breakers, I simply wouldn't pursue someone who was religious. Generally in the first few dates people tend to reveal their thoughts on religion, politics, sport, family values etc.. So if someone said they were a Catholic Fianna Fáil football mad fanatic who wanted 10 children I just wouldn't see any point in continuing the dates!

Malari · 11-02-2015 05:52PM

Galilea Cold Miner wrote: »

I'm intrigued by how people will avoid going out with people who are religious. Would they just end a relationship over it and for no other reason.

It's not something that you eventually find out as a huge surprise though! It's something I talked about very openly and very early. It's a completely different mindset to mine, so I think it would be quite obvious, and those kinds of differences are incompatible for me. I understand other feel less strongly about it, however.

Galilea Cold Miner wrote: »

If you add up the religious people and those who are not overly religious but will very much want a traditional wedding the pool of remaining people in Ireland will be quite small.

Aren't I lucky to have found one! :eek::pac: I don't really think the pool is as small as you imagine.

Shenshen · 11-02-2015 05:54PM

Galilea Cold Miner wrote: »

I'm intrigued by how people will avoid going out with people who are religious. Would they just end a relationship over it and for no other reason.

If you add up the religious people and those who are not overly religious but will very much want a traditional wedding the pool of remaining people in Ireland will be quite small.

Speaking from experience, I didn't last long in any relationship with a religious person.

Partially my fault, I suppose, I felt very ill at ease once he was lecturing me about the evils of yoga, while at the same time telling me about a weeping statue of Mary he was going to go and make a pilgrimage to.

It's not so much the fact that the person is religious, but more how that will influence and colour their everyday behaviour. Insisting on a church wedding isn't the single issue, I think, it's just one of many aspects where the person will demand you be not only tolerant, but fully involved in their beliefs. And if you don't hold those beliefs, that would make a relationship bloody hard work.

MrWalsh · 11-02-2015 05:57PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Genuinely I actually would like to read up on it if you have some links! I'm always interested in anthropology and sociology

You should check out the "very short introduction" on sociology, I'd say you'd get a PDF of it online. One book that has a good take on such matters but it's not about religion at all, more just about dysfunctional families, is one by John Cleese and someone else, I think it's called Toxic Families. It's pretty old now but it's still relevant regarding family groupthink type stuff. Any standard college intro for sociology would also be relevant. And totally off topic but if you like anthropology, check out "Don't sleep there are snakes" by Daniel Everett, a great little book!

seenitall · 11-02-2015 05:59PM

Galilea Cold Miner wrote: »

I'm intrigued by how people will avoid going out with people who are religious. Would they just end a relationship over it and for no other reason.

If you add up the religious people and those who are not overly religious but will very much want a traditional wedding the pool of remaining people in Ireland will be quite small.

It's not about avoiding it as such, I just have never found myself "clicking" intimately with a religious person. A good part of attraction for me consists of mental stimulation, and being on a similar wavelength and world-view will ensure we have plenty to find satisfying about each other on that level. While with someone who is religious, the gap in mentality is usually so wide, that we might as well be speaking different languages.

To be honest, I can barely stand religiosity in my friends, let alone a more intimate and involved relationship. Two of my friends have become strident Christians through the years, and I don't even recognise them any more from the girls they used to be. Gay bashing, lack of compassion, judgment, judgment, judgment at every turn. It strikes me that I wouldn't like to swap places with them for all the tea in China, no matter how much peace and happiness they tell me Christ has brought them. :pac:

lazygal · 11-02-2015 06:00PM

Galilea Cold Miner wrote: »

I'm intrigued by how people will avoid going out with people who are religious. Would they just end a relationship over it and for no other reason.

If you add up the religious people and those who are not overly religious but will very much want a traditional wedding the pool of remaining people in Ireland will be quite small.

I wouldn't have lasted with someone who was religious. I wouldn't have lasted with an 'ah sure might as well pick and mix the bits of a faith I didn't choose for a quiet life' person. If, on getting engaged, my now husband had done an about turn and insisted on a church wedding to keep his parents or anyone else happy, I'd have reconsidered whether he was the right man for me. Luckily we're both on the same page and religion isn't ever an issue we'll fall out over.

11-02-2015 06:06PM

MrWalsh wrote: »

I wouldn't get into a relationship with a religious person in the first place. It'd be the same as any other one of my deal breakers, I simply wouldn't pursue someone who was religious. Generally in the first few dates people tend to reveal their thoughts on religion, politics, sport, family values etc.. So if someone said they were a Catholic Fianna Fáil football mad fanatic who wanted 10 children I just wouldn't see any point in continuing the dates!

I'd never discuss religion (as its not something I really discuss unless asked something specific or in response to something such as here on boards) or politics (as I've no interest in them) on a date. Sport on the other hand you wouldn't be 5 mins talking to me and you would know I'm sports mad :pac:.

Shenshen wrote: »

Partially my fault, I suppose, I felt very ill at ease once he was lecturing me about the evils of yoga, while at the same time telling me about a weeping statue of Mary he was going to go and make a pilgrimage to.

That sounds very over the top though. Most religions people go to mass once a week etc but don't hold opinions as daft as yoga being evil or don't go around making it known that they would count themselves as religious.

Boom__Boom · 11-02-2015 06:09PM

Some actual stats on how the traditional Catholic wedding has really fallen out of favour in the last 20 years.

In 1994 15,200 out of a total of 16,621 weddings took place in Roman Catholic churches - 91%

In 2004 15,978 out of a total of 20,979 weddings took place in Roman Catholic churches - 76%

In 2013 12,921 out of a total of 20,680 weddings took place in Roman Catholic churches - 62%

These figures are from a recent CSO publication - link below.

It's also worth remembering that the population in Ireland has gone from 3.59 million in 1994, to 4.07 million in 2004 and 4.595 million in 2013 and the increase in numbers of de facto couples who are married but don't bother getting the piece of paper.

It really is a stark illustration of the declining influence of the role of the Catholic Church in Ireland in less than 20 years.

http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpubl.../#.VHsWqzF5GAz

11-02-2015 06:11PM

Remember the big tensions in marriage are, money, sex, the in laws, so there is no way Id would marry anyone who is so influenced by their parents, that they would have a church wedding just to keep them happy. It sound like a very odd relationship for an adult to have with their parents.

MrWalsh · 11-02-2015 06:12PM

Galilea Cold Miner wrote: »

I'd never discuss religion (as its not something I really discuss unless asked something specific or in response to something such as here on boards) or politics (as I've no interest in them) on a date. Sport on the other hand you wouldn't be 5 mins talking to me and you would know I'm sports mad :pac:.

Aw Noxy, we can't go out

I don't think you'd be into me anyway, I'm in favour of lots of the things the Church tells you to be against.

suicide_circus · 11-02-2015 06:18PM

I'd get married in the church........OF SATAN!!

Muahahahahahahaha!

Into The Blue · 11-02-2015 06:23PM

We got married in the same church as my wife's grandparents, nice touch..

Let's face it, the holy side is nice for the old folks and sure for us non believers, one building is the same as the next anyway.. Party is the real wedding.

You'll have enough to worry about without stressing about these little things.

septictank · 11-02-2015 06:23PM

they can be dangerous places.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-31424976

Jamsiek · 11-02-2015 06:25PM

Grayson wrote: »

Plus I think a photo of her in the dress, me in a purple velvet suit, a pink Cadillac with Korean Elvis at a drive thru chapel would look amazing on a mantelpiece.:)

Nooooo :-)

11-02-2015 06:29PM

mariaalice wrote: »

Remember the big tensions in marriage are, money, sex, the in laws, so there is no way Id would marry anyone who is so influenced by their parents, that they would have a church wedding just to keep them happy. It sound like a very odd relationship for an adult to have with their parents.

Some people are very close to their parents and want them to be a part of their day to day lives so obviously their opinion and getting on well with them matters. This is even more so for people who will be living close or right next door to their parents, which is quite common in the country where people build on their own land.

eviltwin · 11-02-2015 06:32PM

Galilea Cold Miner wrote: »

Some people are very close to their parents and want them to be a part of their day to day lives so obviously their opinion and getting on well with them matters. This is even more so for people who will be living close or right next door to their parents, which is quite common in the country where people build on their own land.

There is close and then there's close. We'd be very close to my mother in law, she's a good friend and we are in regular contact but we don't consult her on our decisions, we present them as a done deal. People are free to give their opinions but our marriage and family matters are not up for negotiation. We're adults, there comes a time you have to set boundaries.

mikom · 11-02-2015 06:35PM

Galilea Cold Miner wrote: »

Some people are very close to their parents and want them to be a part of their day to day lives so obviously their opinion and getting on well with them matters. This is even more so for people who will be living close or right next door to their parents, which is quite common in the country where people build on their own land.

"Johnny, would you not go and paint those front walls magnolia instead of that shade of blue".

"As you wish, Mammy"

11-02-2015 06:40PM

Galilea Cold Miner wrote: »

Some people are very close to their parents and want them to be a part of their day to day lives so obviously their opinion and getting on well with them matters. This is even more so for people who will be living close or right next door to their parents, which is quite common in the country where people build on their own land.

Fado fado I know a couple who built a house near his parents and If he was home from work before his wife he would go the his mothers to get his dinner, if his wife was out he use to go down to his parents for company, is that the kind of close you men.

11-02-2015 06:42PM

eviltwin wrote: »

There is close and then there's close. We'd be very close to my mother in law, she's a good friend and we are in regular contact but we don't consult her on our decisions, we present them as a done deal. People are free to give their opinions but our marriage and family matters are not up for negotiation. We're adults, there comes a time you have to set boundaries.

Each to their own I suppose but I'd discuss nearly everything with my parents before making decisions as I value their opinion very much.

mariaalice wrote: »

Fado fado I know a couple who built a house near his parents and If he was home from work before his wife he would go the his mothers to get his dinner, if his wife was out he use to go down to his parents for company, is that the kind of close you men.

I'd see nothing wrong with it, one of the reasons I want to build at home myself if possible so I can be in and out of home daily.

Neyite · 11-02-2015 06:45PM

mariaalice wrote: »

Remember the big tensions in marriage are, money, sex, the in laws, so there is no way Id would marry anyone who is so influenced by their parents, that they would have a church wedding just to keep them happy. It sound like a very odd relationship for an adult to have with their parents.

You know nothing about him, but don't let that stop you being incredibly judgemental of an amazing man. And I'm well aware of the big tensions in a serious relationship given that we have been together over a decade and have a child together, lost a few more, overcame money problems, family issues, unemployment and everything else that a good boom and recession can throw at ya.

The relative in question has been absolutely hands-off about anything religious, ever. It was literally when we announced our engagement that the church thing reared its ugly head and took us both by surprise, because she is very laid back. Its just this one thing that she feels strongly about. And initally, we thought, 'whats the harm?' and looked into getting married.

But then something happened that killed any vestiges of faith for me whatsoever. I changed from being a Pick n Mix Lapsed to having no faith at all - in fact, I'm actually angry at the catholic church. So angry I feel that I can no longer go along with what we previously agreed. And since we spoke about it the other day, it appears that he is beginning to feel similar to me now and I feel that he will come around once he has had time to digest how I feel.

His relationship with his family is utterly normal. Infer what you like from your high horse if it makes you feel better but you couldn't be further from the truth. And even his relative is usually lovely and unimposing. I can only put it down to that funny way some people get about weddings.

We will do it our way. I'm happy to wait until we can.

Eutow · 11-02-2015 06:46PM

mikom wrote: »

"As you wish, Mammy"

mariaalice wrote: »

Fado fado I know a couple who built a house near his parents and If he was home from work before his wife he would go the his mothers to get his dinner, if his wife was out he use to go down to his parents for company, is that the kind of close you men.

I can't get Seymour Skinner out of my head now.

"From now on you are going to see a new".......

"Oh no we won't"

"Yes mother"

eviltwin · 11-02-2015 06:46PM

Galilea Cold Miner wrote: »

Each to their own I suppose but I'd discuss nearly everything with my parents before making decisions as I value their opinion very much.

I'd see nothing wrong with it, one of the reasons I want to build at home myself if possible so I can be in and out of home daily.

How old are you?

11-02-2015 06:48PM

eviltwin wrote: »

How old are you?

30.

eviltwin · 11-02-2015 06:50PM

Galilea Cold Miner wrote: »

30.

So your not that young. Whatever works for you man but I like having a bit of distance.

MrWalsh · 11-02-2015 06:51PM

Galilea Cold Miner wrote: »

Each to their own I suppose but I'd discuss nearly everything with my parents before making decisions as I value their opinion very much.

There's nothing wrong with this at all and in fact you are lucky that you share a similar outlook with them such that their opinion colours your own. But if they had a completely different opinion to you on something important would you go your own way?

Pressures around Church weddings

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