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Off Topic Thread too point uh

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  • #752
    Burgo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,815 ✭✭✭Burgo


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Do we have CSGO players amongst us?

    Just started playing again after a long break.


  • #753
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,122 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Just remembered, I was asked in work the other day if I was French. :pac:


  • #754
    Wang King
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭Wang King


    awec wrote: »
    Just remembered, I was asked in work the other day if I was French. :pac:

    Ou est Mon pint de Harp?


  • #755
    dregin
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 6,525 Mod ✭✭✭✭dregin


    pint de harp et une packet de dates, Lawerence, sil vous plait.


  • #756
    chupacabra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,417 ✭✭✭chupacabra


    Just about to head off to see Elbow at the Apollo in Manchester. I planned the trip around being in London just in time for kick off on saturday at 3:30pm only to find that it's actually 2:30pm. :rolleyes:


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  • #757
    Wang King
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭Wang King


    Ghana and Equatorial Guinea is really kicking off. Match stopped with 10 mins to go, Ghana up 3-0 and the Guinea fans trying to kill anyone in a Ghana shirt


  • #758
    Zzippy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,166 ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    For anyone following the Greek/Euro situation, this is an interesting read. I'd heard about the German debt write-off before but the scale of it makes their current attitude seem a tad hypocritical...


  • #759
    Narcissus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 776 ✭✭✭Narcissus


    The new french second jersey looks feckin class

    http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/31156290


  • #760
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,341 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    Zzippy wrote: »
    For anyone following the Greek/Euro situation, this is an interesting read. I'd heard about the German debt write-off before but the scale of it makes their current attitude seem a tad hypocritical...

    Aren't reparations effectively fines put on countries who lose a war and not countries who just don't want to pay tax, like Greece?

    I don't know how relevant this is to the situation tbh.


  • #761
    molloyjh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    Aren't reparations effectively fines put on countries who lose a war and not countries who just don't want to pay tax, like Greece?

    I don't know how relevant this is to the situation tbh.

    Yeah it's utterly incomparable. After WW1 Germany was hit with massive reparations that they simply couldn't afford. It was the done thing at the time to make the lose pay the victor. But the economic ruin that left Germany in played an absolutely huge role in the rise of the Nazi party. After WW2 it was acknowledged that the best way to prevent another recurrence of the conflict was to help Germany find its feet rather than screw them over again. And it worked.

    The situation in Greece is so completely different it beggars belief that any academic could possibly draw parallels between the two like that.


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  • #762
    Zzippy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,166 ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    Aren't reparations effectively fines put on countries who lose a war and not countries who just don't want to pay tax, like Greece?

    I don't know how relevant this is to the situation tbh.

    Not quite. Reparations were penalties for the damage caused by the war. Also, when Germany occupied countries during WW2 they forced those countries to "loan" them money - in the case of Greece they "borrowed" €54 billion in today's terms at zero interest, and never paid it back. Greece has also apparently considered seeking €108bn for infrastructure damage during the German occupation...


  • #763
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,341 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    Yeah I heard that the Greeks were thinking of doing that.

    It's all so long ago though that it smacks of childishness and not what a proper country should be doing.


  • #764
    Greta Massive Saliva
    Posts: 24,816 ✭✭✭✭ Greta Massive Saliva


    The difference being that Greece has not 'changed' its ways.
    Albert Einstein wrote:
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
    Without cultural and systemic changes, any money that flows into Greece currently is massively 'inefficient' when it comes to turning around their economy. A further write down, a further debt restructuring can't actually benefit the country unless they get their **** together. We think our PS is over staffed, the troika put a 10 to 1 ban on hiring there! 10 people need to leave a PS job before a single replacement can be found.

    There's a pretty decent thread over here with a lot of noise but every so often there's some very good posts.

    The comparison with Germany would only be valid if after the second World War, Germany continued to run up huge budget deficits. This post, with Graphs explains a little about how Greece has got into the situation it is in, and hasn't reformed at all.


  • #765
    Buer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    When I think of the financial crisis in Greece, I'm always reminded of this story which appeared in The Sunday Times several years ago.

    http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/focus/article1062500.ece

    For those who can't access, a large Athenian hospital was being run into the ground with terrible healthcare for their patients. It then transpired that there were a number of gardeners on the books, receiving comfortable wage packets. EDIT: I somehow managed to omit the fact that the hospital had no gardens. It's not in the article but I believe the payments were linked back to family members of the government administration.

    Greece can stamp their feet and scream at the top of their lungs as loudly as they want. They've been completely unrealistic and irresponsible for many years and the chickens have come home to roost. Giving them a massive write down will simply be facilitating them. They're like a junkie who asks for a few quid to help them get clean and you know they're going to go out and buy more smack as soon as they get it.


  • #766
    molloyjh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    What's interesting about this whole situation and the attempted comparisons to the German debt write off is that the comparisons that can be drawn are actually of a fringe political party displaying to their suffering electorate a "bogeyman" that they can use as a focus for their frustrations. Said party then sets about telling the electorate that they can save them from this bogeyman and improve their circumstance and get elected on that basis. It's the very same tactic that the likes of the Shinners here are using too. And it's scary how often it works.

    Give them someone to hate and stand behind them winding them up, then present yourself as the solution. "We're here fighting for you against this awful bogeyman". And it works. It worked in Germany in the 30s and it worked in Greece in the latest election. It's even working to a large degree here.


  • #767
    Zzippy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,166 ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The difference being that Greece has not 'changed' its ways.

    Without cultural and systemic changes, any money that flows into Greece currently is massively 'inefficient' when it comes to turning around their economy. A further write down, a further debt restructuring can't actually benefit the country unless they get their **** together. We think our PS is over staffed, the troika put a 10 to 1 ban on hiring there! 10 people need to leave a PS job before a single replacement can be found.

    There's a pretty decent thread over here with a lot of noise but every so often there's some very good posts.

    The comparison with Germany would only be valid if after the second World War, Germany continued to run up huge budget deficits. This post, with Graphs explains a little about how Greece has got into the situation it is in, and hasn't reformed at all.

    10 to 1 - that would be nice. I work in a public sector agency, and we lost 200 staff (of a total of <500) without any replacements until they recruited 8 people recently after 6 years of steady staff wastage and zero recruitment. Our ability to fulfil govt requirements and service level agreements has suffered due to critical staff shortages in certain areas, and our reputation has taken a beating with stakeholders as a result. I know all about the joys of not being able to recruit.

    Anyway, getting off topic. My initial post was about a topic I found interesting - not because of the Greeks so much as about the German attitude - it's not just Greece - witness the German attitude to Irish requests for a debt writedown - we bailed out German banks, not just Irish ones but we can't get a penny back. Germany is now the paymaster of Europe and refuses to countenance debt writedown for others despite it's own history of debt writedowns. It's probably too complex a subject for this thread, but one wonders sometimes did Germany really lose the war...


  • #768
    Synode
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,967 ✭✭✭Synode


    Our numpty politicians chose to guarantee all the debts of the banks. Germany is an easy scapegoat but once we did that, we had no choice but repay all debts. Why would Germany write off some of the loans when we are well capable of repaying them


  • #769
    Greta Massive Saliva
    Posts: 24,816 ✭✭✭✭ Greta Massive Saliva


    Synode wrote: »
    Our numpty politicians chose to guarantee all the debts of the banks. Germany is an easy scapegoat but once we did that, we had no choice but repay all debts. Why would Germany write off some of the loans when we are well capable of repaying them

    The bank debt saga, though a massively stupid debt to lump into our own national debt, only accounts for about 20% of it.

    We'd many years of deficits in times when saving a bit / paying off some debt should've been a priority. But that's history now. We're going to have to have a 'in your face goal' of reducing that debt for a long time.

    @ Zzippy, I imagine that Germany might well have been open to the idea of working with Greece's debts if they'd made the right steps since the initial bailout.

    We have, we're returning to the debt markets and are writing off debt easily (by taking out a loan to pay off another loan which was at a much higher percent). Greece are nowhere, and I mean absolutely nowhere near the open market. They've hugely preferential loan rates available to them (if you think the Troika's 8% is bad, wait to see what Greek debt needs to be at to attract cash in an open market).

    We took the preferential (though still expensive) loans, and shut down expenditure, and managed to get ourselves back up and running.
    Greece took the preferential loans, and have continued to spend far more than they can afford. It's like your broke friend asking for a lend for rent, even though the last time you did you saw him out in the pub necking pints the next day. He paid the rent with your loan (that you're never going to see back), but carried on spending what he didn't have.

    In Greece's defence, I think they're ****ed either way though! This might be a desperate gamble, but in times of desperation, what else can you do?


  • #770
    Zzippy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,166 ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The bank debt saga, though a massively stupid debt to lump into our own national debt, only accounts for about 20% of it.

    We'd many years of deficits in times when saving a bit / paying off some debt should've been a priority. But that's history now. We're going to have to have a 'in your face goal' of reducing that debt for a long time.

    IIRC we were running a large surplus up to 2006/7, had paid off a lot of the national debt and had invested a lot into the National Pension Reserve Fund. We've had (large) deficits since 2008 when the huge take of stamp duty and other taxes crashed.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    @ Zzippy, I imagine that Germany might well have been open to the idea of working with Greece's debts if they'd made the right steps since the initial bailout.

    We have, we're returning to the debt markets and are writing off debt easily (by taking out a loan to pay off another loan which was at a much higher percent). Greece are nowhere, and I mean absolutely nowhere near the open market. They've hugely preferential loan rates available to them (if you think the Troika's 8% is bad, wait to see what Greek debt needs to be at to attract cash in an open market).

    But like you said, we've made the right steps to rein in spending and reduced the current deficit, but I don't see Germany open to the idea of working with our debts, so why would Greece follow our example when it clearly doesn't lead to any goodwill? Greece is a basket case alright, but it will be interesting to see if a different approach from them gets a different result.


  • #771
    Swan Curry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,805 ✭✭✭Swan Curry


    It's not the worst thing in the world to have a dissenting voice in Europe, and at least it's not Golden Dawn.


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  • #772
    chupacabra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,417 ✭✭✭chupacabra


    So at the gig last night some middle aged woman who arrived very late pushed her way to the front where I was and attacked me for not giving her my spot. She called me rude for being "quite tall".

    She then put chewing gum in my hair when I didnt give in. :pac:


  • #773
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 20,606 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    T


  • #774
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Went to a party at the British Embassy in Sofia and the Greek thing was discussed ad naseum. Thank you everyone for making me appear so well informed! :D


  • #775
    duckysauce
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭duckysauce


    chupacabra wrote: »
    So at the gig last night some middle aged woman who arrived very late pushed her way to the front where I was and attacked me for not giving her my spot. She called me rude for being "quite tall".

    She then put chewing gum in my hair when I didnt give in. :pac:

    what did you do when she put chewing gum in your hair ?


  • #776
    Wang King
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭Wang King


    duckysauce wrote: »
    what did you do when she put chewing gum in your hair ?

    He's a gentle kerryman, he just said soft day thank god and smiled sweetly...................... When she wasn't looking he took a piss in her coat pocket


  • #777
    chupacabra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,417 ✭✭✭chupacabra


    duckysauce wrote: »
    what did you do when she put chewing gum in your hair ?

    Didnt find the chewing gum until the next morning.


  • #778
    Wang King
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭Wang King


    Now, I have to admit, I couldn't care less as I have zero interest in horseracing, but AP McCoy has announced his retirement at the seasons end.
    Where does he rank among Ireland's sporting hero's?


  • #779
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Wang King wrote: »
    Now, I have to admit, I couldn't care less as I have zero interest in horseracing, but AP McCoy has announced his retirement at the seasons end.
    Where does he rank among Ireland's sporting hero's?
    Be careful with that "h" word!


  • #780
    RuggieBear
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,958 ✭✭✭✭RuggieBear


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Went to a party at the British Embassy in Sofia and the Greek thing was discussed ad naseum. Thank you everyone for making me appear so well informed! :D

    what were the ferrero rocher like?


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  • #781
    mfceiling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,003 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    Wang King wrote: »
    Now, I have to admit, I couldn't care less as I have zero interest in horseracing, but AP McCoy has announced his retirement at the seasons end.
    Where does he rank among Ireland's sporting hero's?

    Fairly high I would say.

    Horse racing is massive worldwide and I reckon AP's name is synonymous with it everywhere.

    Plus he was our family's GP's first cousin!!


This discussion has been closed.
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