Man commits suicide after taking magic mushrooms

AndyBoBandy · 06-02-2015 12:23PM

Creeby wrote: »

I think it is quite obvious that it was the mushrooms/truffles that caused this tragic event and triggered something mentally in him.

I think you are wrong.

You seem to have arrived at your conclusion with so little details known.

Zippie84 · 06-02-2015 12:30PM

Xcellor wrote: »

I'm just curious on whether the effects could make a normal guy do something like this?

Normal guy....?

newmug · 06-02-2015 12:31PM

I hate "the fear". I drank no more or no less than anyone over the last 10 years (I actually barely drink at all nowadays), but now I just cant shake off the fear. Its horrible. I'm living in it permanently. These things DO affect your mental health, without a doubt.

RecordStraight · 06-02-2015 12:32PM

kylith wrote: »

No one is pretending that there's no harm in anything, just that for the vast majority of people there won't be, and that a very small dose of something is very unlikely to cause enough of a mental change in an otherwise healthy person to make him kill himself.

I'd suggest that there's some harm done by most types of drug use - it's just that it's usually of a fairly low degree, or perhaps the symptoms don't manifest themselves for a long time - I include alcohol use in this of course, and I do drink, so I'm not trying to be holier than thou.

What would worry me is that I probably wouldn't notice any cognitive damage that I do/had done to myself, and may not notice any personality changes. I doubt my friend is aware of his own paranoia - and I wouldn't risk raising it with him (because of his paranoia).

Greenmachine · 06-02-2015 12:34PM

My sympathies to the family. I do suspect like some others that there is more to the story, than the paper is reporting. Not going to suggest he has done some of the things, other posters have said, but I don't believe that a normal healthy person would commit suicide in the aftermath of having taken a few truffles, without there being substantial external stresses, in his life.

It is much easier to focus, on thing in the black and white sense.
Good kid = Good
Drugs = Bad

Tombo2001 · 06-02-2015 12:36PM

Greenmachine wrote: »

My sympathies to the family. I do suspect like some others that there is more to the story, than the paper is reporting. Not going to suggest he has done some of the things, other posters have said, but I don't believe that a normal healthy person would commit suicide in the aftermath of having taken a few truffles, without there being substantial external stresses, in his life.

It is much easier to focus, on thing in the black and white sense.
Good kid = Good
Drugs = Bad

And do you believe the drugs had absolutely nothing to do with his death?

Grayson · 06-02-2015 12:38PM

This is an article in this months new yorker that I read this morning. It discusses the use of psychedelics in the treatment of depression.
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/02/09/trip-treatment?intcid=mod-most-popular

Obviously there are differences. these substances are given in very controlled conditions. I did think it was worth chucking the link in here as it's a very interesting article.
Ironically it deals with giving drugs to people who are going to die. It's to make them more calm and less stressed.

06-02-2015 12:38PM

From the article:

A DAD-of-two who didn’t want to take drugs at an Amsterdam stag party but sampled ‘magic mushrooms’ shot himself just 72 hours after he returned home.

Really doesn't stack up for me to be honest.

RecordStraight · 06-02-2015 12:39PM

Grayson wrote: »

Ironically it deals with giving drugs to people who are going to die. It's to make them more calm and less stressed.

I suppose in these cases you can throw long-term harm out the window and focus on the short-term benefits.

Grayson · 06-02-2015 12:41PM

Tombo2001 wrote: »

And do you believe the drugs had absolutely nothing to do with his death?

There's nothing to indicate it. As someone said earlier Man drinks glass of water and dies three days later.

The simple fact is that lots of people take mushrooms and most will never self harm. This guy may have been affected negatively by the mushrooms but we'll probably never know. That's because there's nothing to link the two events and there's no reason to link them.

kylith · 06-02-2015 12:42PM

Tasden wrote: »

If taken along with an excessive amount of alcohol would it effect people differently though? Like your tolerance/ability to deal with the effects could be different to taking it stone cold sober?

Cause I know myself I get awful cases of the so called "fear" after some nights of just drinking and that's not even as a result of doing something "shameful" or whatever way you wanna phrase it, like his wife said he never did drugs before so I'm assuming he felt it was wrong to do so especially since he felt so guilty afterwards.

Honestly, I don't think so. If they are the ones I'm thinking of the dose would be enough to make him think 'these taste rank' and pretty much nothing else. Even as an 9st girl when I took a fistful of regular shrooms in a club, drunk and continuing to drink, the effect was minimal* so I would think that 4 tic-tac sized ones on a, say, 15st man would, for practically everyone, barely even touch the sides. A dose enough to make you trip would be 7-10g (of the regular ones you pick here, dried), and you'd have to be determined to get them into you because they taste like compost.

The 'fear' you say after drinking would be a much greater effect than any I've ever experienced after mushies. Alcohol is a know depressant too.

In order to feel enough guilt after it to kill himself I think that either he had a very puritanical lifestyle where any 'sin' was an indelible blemish, he had undisclosed/diagnosed mental health issues, or there was more than a few shrooms going on.

* I talked a lot of ****e. But then I always have.

Grayson · 06-02-2015 12:44PM

RecordStraight wrote: »

I suppose in these cases you can throw long-term harm out the window and focus on the short-term benefits.

Yep. The problem is that the long term benefits/harms of a lot of these drugs is pretty unknown. It could turn you into an insightful genius (probably not).

The problem is that in the 70's research into recreational substances was stopped/banned so we know very little.

Ash.J.Williams · 06-02-2015 12:45PM

I've taken at least a few hundred mushrooms over the years and all were amazing...however i'm sure if i took them now in my late 30's it would depressing!

Also as per article...mushrooms are something you shouldn't do if you Don't want to do them ...they are a powerful force! You kinda need to be into that way of thinking.

RecordStraight · 06-02-2015 12:45PM

Grayson wrote: »

There's nothing to indicate it. As someone said earlier Man drinks glass of water and dies three days later.

This is specious. You might be entitled to make that argument if the man had taken drugs every day for 30 years. He didn't.

Creeby · 06-02-2015 12:45PM

Andybobandy wrote: »

I think you are wrong.

You seem to have arrived at your conclusion with so little details known.

And I think you're wrong?

I didn't want to come across as giving a verdict on why he killed himself as i think it's pretty disrespectful. I was trying to point out that drugs, of any kind, are not for everyone and everyone reacts differently.

Tombo2001 · 06-02-2015 12:48PM

Creeby wrote: »

And I think you're wrong?

I didn't want to come across as giving a verdict on why he killed himself as i think it's pretty disrespectful. I was trying to point out that drugs, of any kind, are not for everyone and everyone reacts differently.

That's exactly the problem with the bog standard response on this thread.

"I took mushrooms once in a nightclub in Athlone, and I was grand, Therefore QED Ergo this guy couldn't have been affected by them".

Greenmachine · 06-02-2015 12:49PM

Tombo2001 wrote: »

And do you believe the drugs had absolutely nothing to do with his death?

They may or may not have contributed to his death. The article suggests the link is absolute. I don't believe it to be absolute link.

AndyBoBandy · 06-02-2015 12:49PM

Creeby wrote: »

And I think you're wrong?

I didn't want to come across as giving a verdict on why he killed himself as i think it's pretty disrespectful. I was trying to point out that drugs, of any kind, are not for everyone and everyone reacts differently.

But you did give your verdict on why he killed himself.

Creeby wrote: »

I think it is quite obvious that it was the mushrooms/truffles that caused this tragic event and triggered something mentally in him.

DeadHand · 06-02-2015 12:50PM

Grayson wrote: »

This is an article in this months new yorker that I read this morning. It discusses the use of psychedelics in the treatment of depression.
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/02/09/trip-treatment?intcid=mod-most-popular

Obviously there are differences. these substances are given in very controlled conditions. I did think it was worth chucking the link in here as it's a very interesting article.
Ironically it deals with giving drugs to people who are going to die. It's to make them more calm and less stressed.

Mmhmm...

And I have read that MDMA is used sometimes in psychotherapy as it arouses feelings of trust and compassion in others making them more open with their therapist.

This always made total sense to me as people on MDMA can't quite shut up, often let slip insight into otherwise guarded feelings and problems... All in an attitude of trust and positivity. So I've, er, heard.

Point being, I think more should be done in the research and use of traditionally stigmatised drugs for people's benefit.

Tombo2001 · 06-02-2015 12:51PM

Greenmachine wrote: »

They may or may not have contributed to his death. The article suggests the link is absolute. I don't believe it to be absolute link.

The article doesn't say the link is absolute; the article says his family believe it was the primary causal factor.

RecordStraight · 06-02-2015 12:51PM

Greenmachine wrote: »

They may or may not have contributed to his death. The article suggests the link is absolute. I don't believe it to be absolute link.

That's a fair point. I suppose it makes for a much better headline, and I guess for the family it makes sense to link them as it was an out-of-character action (that affects your brain chemistry) that closely preceded the tragedy.

But of course nuances like that are not necessarily going to sell papers.

Creeby · 06-02-2015 12:53PM

Tombo2001 wrote: »

That's exactly the problem with the bog standard response on this thread.

"I took mushrooms once in a nightclub in Athlone, and I was grand, Therefore QED Ergo this guy couldn't have been affected by them".

What? Not sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me here.

Tasden · 06-02-2015 12:53PM

kylith wrote: »

Honestly, I don't think so. If they are the ones I'm thinking of the dose would be enough to make him think 'these taste rank' and pretty much nothing else. Even as an 9st girl when I took a fistful of regular shrooms in a club, drunk and continuing to drink, the effect was minimal* so I would think that 4 tic-tac sized ones on a, say, 15st man would, for practically everyone, barely even touch the sides. A dose enough to make you trip would be 7-10g (of the regular ones you pick here, dried), and you'd have to be determined to get them into you because they taste like compost.

The 'fear' you say after drinking would be a much greater effect than any I've ever experienced after mushies. Alcohol is a know depressant too.

In order to feel enough guilt after it to kill himself I think that either he had a very puritanical lifestyle where any 'sin' was an indelible blemish, he had undisclosed/diagnosed mental health issues, or there was more than a few shrooms going on.

* I talked a lot of ****e. But then I always have.

Thanks for the insight, I have no experience with them so wouldn't have a clue of how they would affect people in different scenarios.

lufties · 06-02-2015 12:53PM

elefant wrote: »

I know plenty of people in Amsterdam who have taken them and none have had any lasting effects. You can just buy them over the counter here.

The description of his level of remorse having taken some legal drugs (and what sounds like a very small amount from the article) on a stag-do seems quite unusual.

RIP.

I thought the exact same, reckon there was more to it than that..Shrooms are the most harmless drug there is, statistically.

Tombo2001 · 06-02-2015 12:54PM

RecordStraight wrote: »

That's a fair point. I suppose it makes for a much better headline, and I guess for the family it makes sense to link them as it was an out-of-character action (that affects your brain chemistry) that closely preceded the tragedy.

But of course nuances like that are not necessarily going to sell papers.

maybe it makes sense to them, because it makes sense. If you see what I mean.

Man has abrupt change in personality and commits suicide. Did he do anything differently that might have triggered this. 3 days ago he took mushrooms for the first time.

Ash.J.Williams · 06-02-2015 12:55PM

anyway if he bought them in the dam he probably took F** all anyway

Creeby · 06-02-2015 12:55PM

Andybobandy wrote: »

But you did give your verdict on why he killed himself.

And that's why I said I didn't mean to come across as that and that my post was about something different.

Tombo2001 · 06-02-2015 12:57PM

Creeby wrote: »

What? Not sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me here.

I'm agreeing with you.

The point I am making is that people here are extrapolating from their own very limited experience and saying the experience would be the same for everyone else, and I am saying that this is misguided.

Your point is that everyone reacts differently, which is the same argument.

lufties · 06-02-2015 12:57PM

Tombo2001 wrote: »

maybe it makes sense to them, because it makes sense. If you see what I mean.

Man has abrupt change in personality and commits suicide. Did he do anything differently that might have triggered this. 3 days ago he took mushrooms for the first time.

How do you know it was the first time?

mikom · 06-02-2015 12:58PM

A lad kills himself.
His family and friends flail around and point blame at something they believe to be bad.
This is a multifaceted story, but the churnalists that pose as journalists in this country will put together a piece that just pushes the "drugs are bad" angle.

Points to note aside from him having ingested a miniscle amout of magic mushrooms:

Pressure of an upcoming wedding in November.

The dead man was a carpenter and farmer. A carpenter during a building downturn. I would also like to point out that the incidences of suicide are quite high in the farming community

Alan was not a drug user it is claimed. I presume he drank.

A quote from the piece.... “He said he didn’t deserve us. He said we would be better off without him. Then he said the wedding was off because we deserved better.”
Nothing may have happened, but he was back from a stag in Amsterdam where visiting prostitutes is a part of stags for some. Guilt can eat you up.

I would also like to point out that the place where the magic mushrooms in this story were consumed has a suicide rate of 12 people per 100,000 each year.
Ireland startlingly has suicide rate of 17 people per 100,000 each year.

There is more to this story than magic mushrooms.

Man commits suicide after taking magic mushrooms

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