Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum
Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026
why do elites want to cripple us so much
Comments
-
-
-
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
Ya but have you read up on them? One of them arguably got ahead through corruption/bribes/political-connections (and hasn't been prosecuted), another one of them has been through court multiple times on anti-trust grounds, for arguably creating an anti-competitive monopoly, and the other I haven't even Googled yetVenus In Furs wrote: »I'm not critical of the money they make - they're private entrepreneurs.
You need to be a certain type of person to be that successful in business though. I don't even say that as a criticism, just recognition of a reality.
(I know the issues with the previous two offhand)
A lot of people hailed as entrepreneurs today, should be in prison - a lot of the biggest corporations and businessmen, are literally above the law - we, and much of the western world, live in a two-tier legal system.
We can't accept that as reality, i.e. just how things are, unless we're happy to let democracy be gradually eroded completely.0 -
-
-
Hmm, I'm surprised to see you take this view? (actually, I'm really surprised to see a whole lot of sensible posters, recently take on this "we're all to blame" type of viewHonestly the "elites" are scapegoats for many internalized problems. It's convenient to blame the bankers, the EU, the developers as it was their fault but most of this recession was our own fault. Now that we look to be on the edge of the woods we want to increase public spending and lower social charges. It's madness but I guess the key point ,like the recession before us, is had any government controlled public spending differently they wouldn't have been elected. The same applies for the current group if they don't increase public spending we won't elect them. (We probably won't anyway)
Then when the bubble bursts again we'll blame whoever else we can but ourselves.
)
Why do you think we're on the edge of the woods? Europe is heading into deflation, and the economic crisis is about to get a lot lot worse, because QE is not going to stop deflation.
The cause of deflation is due to a lack of money in the private economy, which causes a reduction in aggregate demand - and there are only two primary ways to get more money into the economy in this environment:
1: Through bank lending (but there is too much private debt already, so this is a no-go; this is why QE will fail).
2: Through government spending - this must assisted by a centralized EU investment program (such as the Modest Proposal, from Greek Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis); this is the only way left out of the crisis.0 -
-
Advertisement
-
KomradeBishop wrote: »Hmm, I'm surprised to see you take this view? (actually, I'm really surprised to see a whole lot of sensible posters, recently take on this "we're all to blame" type of view)
Why do you think we're on the edge of the woods? Europe is heading into deflation, and the economic crisis is about to get a lot lot worse, because QE is not going to stop deflation.
The cause of deflation is due to a lack of money in the private economy, which causes a reduction in aggregate demand - and there are only two primary ways to get more money into the economy in this environment:
1: Through bank lending (but there is too much private debt already, so this is a no-go; this is why QE will fail).
2: Through government spending - this must assisted by a centralized EU investment program (such as the Modest Proposal, from Greek Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis); this is the only way left out of the crisis.
Let me pedantic one moment.
When I say we're to blame. I don't mean we're entirely to blame, what I mean we're in denial as to proportion of which is our fault. I think if you looked closely at the public accounts and budgets leading into the recession you'd notice just how much of a mess we were digging. Had anyone authority moved to fill in the hole we'd have opposed them and likely wouldn't have granted them consecutive terms in office.
Edge of woods, as in comparison to Greece, Spain Italy Ireland's in a damn good position. Comparison to the rest of world, maybe not so much. We could still find ourselves in a mess, but we've done pretty ok. Assuming Greece doesn't tip this whole thing into the net.
QE ultimately has to happen for Europe as deflation would, from my rubbish understanding of it, be much much worse. This sadly will mean even further spurts of inequality. I don't see how it can be avoided though. Greece is going to default or get a huge writedown and it'll be interesting to see how that affects the Eurozone in general. I cannot fathom why they didn't just bit the bullet the first time around and let Greek away with a significant writedown. It's the thing that always confused me about politics. Make the hard decisions early, not later on. Had FG brought in the Water Charges first they'd have a better position come the polls. Had Germany/EU given the Greeks a bigger write down first, this one would be a lot easier to sell their to the citizens. Instead, they did too little at first and now any move to do enough will be met with derision because people are thinking "Again!!? This times it's way bigger too!"0 -
-
-
I really don't understand the derision and chiding for someone pointing out they disagree with the majority of the world's wealth being in the hands of less than 1% of the population. It's not begrudgery to point out concerns about that. It's begrudgery if you detest someone because of the position they're in and not any other personal characteristics. 0
-
-
-
-
We were in a budget surplus for most of the 2000's though, and our public debt levels were falling during all that time.Let me pedantic one moment.
When I say we're to blame. I don't mean we're entirely to blame, what I mean we're in denial as to proportion of which is our fault. I think if you looked closely at the public accounts and budgets leading into the recession you'd notice just how much of a mess we were digging. Had anyone authority moved to fill in the hole we'd have opposed them and likely wouldn't have granted them consecutive terms in office.
Edge of woods, as in comparison to Greece, Spain Italy Ireland's in a damn good position. Comparison to the rest of world, maybe not so much. We could still find ourselves in a mess, but we've done pretty ok. Assuming Greece doesn't tip this whole thing into the net.
QE ultimately has to happen for Europe as deflation would, from my rubbish understanding of it, be much much worse. This sadly will mean even further spurts of inequality. I don't see how it can be avoided though. Greece is going to default or get a huge writedown and it'll be interesting to see how that affects the Eurozone in general. I cannot fathom why they didn't just bit the bullet the first time around and let Greek away with a significant writedown. It's the thing that always confused me about politics. Make the hard decisions early, not later on. Had FG brought in the Water Charges first they'd have a better position come the polls. Had Germany/EU given the Greeks a bigger write down first, this one would be a lot easier to sell their to the citizens. Instead, they did too little at first and now any move to do enough will be met with derision because people are thinking "Again!!? This times it's way bigger too!"
The budgets were based excessively on property-based income though, definitely - but the primary problem was not even the budget, the problem was the mountain of private debt that got built up.
Ironically, a budget surplus is considered 'prudent', but that actually sucked money out of the private economy, causing a greater reliance on private debt - so that part of public finances, was actually bad and made the property bubble worse, despite it being something most people think of as good
The thing about deflation and QE is: QE has not got a chance of working, and never did (it might provide a momentary blip of inflation, but private debt is too high - banks can not lend, so there will be no wider inflation boost) - the only way to avoid deflation now, is to have massive EU-wide public spending boosts, aided at a central EU level.
So, do you see there, that the only way left to avoid deflation, is massive public spending? (there is no other possible way now, to get money into the economy - not unless you directly hand it to citizens - so we are not even close to being out of the woods)
You can see also, that this is 100% not on the radar of any EU government or official organization, other than Greece, neither is it something that news media or the public (or - with notable exceptions - many economists) are really talking about; from day 1 of the economic crisis though, this was pretty much the only way out of crisis.0 -
I really don't understand the derision and chiding for someone pointing out they disagree with the majority of the world's wealth being in the hands of less than 1% of the population. It's not begrudgery to point out concerns about that. It's begrudgery if you detest someone because of the position they're in and not any other personal characteristics.
Check out the globalrichlist .
Stick your net salary into that. See where you come out. The posters here from Ireland live in one of the most prosperous, safe and democratic countries in the world's most wealthy and egalitarian continent. If you earn the average industrial wage of 37000k then you are in the 1%. Being on the Dole will still have you in the top 15% of earners in the world. You have access to a range of services that most of the world would love to have. One of the last great social democracies. To have the choice to be able to access the Internet to spout out your opinion. And the freedom to do so.
Stop giving out about the elites. Look at what you are as an elite, and decide what you can do to change it. Otherwise it looks like a cheap and unthinking extensionalist crisis.0 -
-
Advertisement
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
Advertisement