why do elites want to cripple us so much

lufties · 01-02-2015 11:00PM

LeinsterDub wrote: »

You live in a western democracy with a super high standard of living . Too someone in the poorest parts of the world you are the 1%

Thats not the point. Michael noonan chased a woman to the grave for money as a political point. This scumbag is still in public office, Take a look around you, more taxes, property prices on the increase, less(decent) jobs, less money for more, less pension value, later retirement age, less job security, more consuming, more mass media in a race to the bottom etc etc

lufties · 01-02-2015 11:04PM

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

Oooooh a Lufties thread! *Gets popcorn*

I'm too controversial aren't I? Oops

....can't be have opinions that differ popular consensous..careful now..don't let the side down

Venus In Furs · 01-02-2015 11:04PM

Roger_007 wrote: »

To anyone who says to me 'isn't it obscene the amount of money that Denis O'Brien or J P McManus or Bill Gates have?', I just say to them 'Why don't you do what they do?'

I'm not critical of the money they make - they're private entrepreneurs.
You need to be a certain type of person to be that successful in business though. I don't even say that as a criticism, just recognition of a reality.

Venus In Furs · 01-02-2015 11:06PM

lufties wrote: »

I'm too controversial aren't I? Oops ....can't be have opinions that differ popular consensous..careful now..don't let the side down

Ha, love these self proclaimed "unpopular opinion" purveyors. They know the truuuuuth.
Your view isn't controversial at all btw.

Sometimes people question views like that above because they're not particularly well supported - it's not all about being shocked at "controversy".

lufties · 01-02-2015 11:10PM

Venus In Furs wrote: »

Ha, love these self proclaimed "unpopular opinion" purveyors. They know the truuuuuth.
Your view isn't controversial at all btw.

Well maybe not to you, but comments like 'ooh a lufties thread' could be construed as being either a sly dig, or by that person suggesting my threads are in some way entertaining or controversial. I'd be inclined to think the former though.

TheBeardedLady · 01-02-2015 11:11PM

lufties wrote: »

I'm too controversial aren't I? Oops ....can't be have opinions that differ popular consensous..careful now..don't let the side down

Yep, you're a reeeeeal renegade, Lufties.

TheBeardedLady · 01-02-2015 11:11PM

lufties wrote: »

Well maybe not to you, but comments like 'ooh a lufties thread' could be construed as being either a sly dig, or by that person suggesting my threads are in some way entertaining or controversial.

You're paranoid. I was joking. Lighten up.

lufties · 01-02-2015 11:13PM

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

You're paranoid. I was joking. Lighten up.

Ahhhh, you were joking? sheesh..silly me

TheBeardedLady · 01-02-2015 11:14PM

lufties wrote: »

Ahhhh, you were joking? sheesh..silly me

:rolleyes:

lufties · 01-02-2015 11:14PM

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

Yep, you're a reeeeeal renegade, Lufties.

There you go again, your so funny hahahaha

TheBeardedLady · 01-02-2015 11:15PM

lufties wrote: »

There you go again, your so funny hahahaha

Ah deary me. Night night, Lufties.

Turtwig · 01-02-2015 11:16PM

Honestly the "elites" are scapegoats for many internalized problems. It's convenient to blame the bankers, the EU, the developers as it was their fault but most of this recession was our own fault. Now that we look to be on the edge of the woods we want to increase public spending and lower social charges. It's madness but I guess the key point ,like the recession before us, is had any government controlled public spending differently they wouldn't have been elected. The same applies for the current group if they don't increase public spending we won't elect them. (We probably won't anyway)
Then when the bubble bursts again we'll blame whoever else we can but ourselves.

ressem · 01-02-2015 11:17PM

People's lives were ruined in the process.

Whose? That was not the cause of the job losses, or the increases in tax, or water/property/wealth taxes.
Trying to preserve state pension payments at the levels that the bubble permitted has a larger contribution to the national debt.(€147 2002 to €230 2009). Worth the tax increases, yeah I think, if we can get the debt down before the next interest rate shock.

What form has the global wealth?
- Commercial property, residential property, agricultural property, property with resources (tapped and untapped mineral wealth)
- Pension funds, Insurance reserves
- Equities, privately held companies
- Art
- Cash reserves
- Infrastructure
- Working assets (machinery, your phone / laptop)
- Loans/ bonds expected to be repaid

Also does the same underlying asset get counted multiple times?

The lowest 2 billion are those in net debt. People will trade themselves into this category in the hope of future gains. i.e. borrowing for education.
Maybe it's a bad way of measuring the people most in trouble across the world.

All have very different effects on the poorest.

- Pricing out the poorest in the third world from agricultural land is a concern, where there may be no substitute work (how many armies are stuffed with men/ kids seeking a source for food).

- Or pricing out people from housing / education is a concern.
- Owning an unused phosphate mine might be a concern.
- Excessively valued patents might be a concern.
- Excessively valued trademarks are not.
- Excessively valued man-made islands/ skyscrapers in Dubai is not.
- Excessively priced old Van Gogh is not.
- Excessively valued football club shares is not.

(Well there's some opportunity loss, in that economy improving infrastructure didn't get built, but the state doesn't do much of that either )

lufties · 01-02-2015 11:19PM

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

Ah deary me. Night night, Lufties.

Ah don't leave yet

you made some very poignant contributions to the thread..

Venus In Furs · 01-02-2015 11:23PM

lufties wrote: »

Well maybe not to you, but comments like 'ooh a lufties thread' could be construed as being either a sly dig, or by that person suggesting my threads are in some way entertaining or controversial. I'd be inclined to think the former though.

Why not entertaining?

evo2000 · 01-02-2015 11:24PM

There is a small percentage of people that hoard most of the worlds wealth alot of it in off shore accounts so it cant be taxed, its far from a conspiracy unfortunetly, that will never change greed is human nature!

http://www.forbes.com/sites/laurashin/2014/01/23/the-85-richest-people-in-the-world-have-as-much-wealth-as-the-3-5-billion-poorest/

The rich create the rules! the poor live by them!

lufties · 01-02-2015 11:24PM

Turtwig wrote: »

Honestly the "elites" are scapegoats for many internalized problems. It's convenient to blame the bankers, the EU, the developers as it was their fault but most of this recession was our own fault. Now that we look to be on the edge of the woods we want to increase public spending and lower social charges. It's madness but I guess the key point ,like the recession before us, is had any government controlled public spending differently they wouldn't have been elected. The same applies for the current group if they don't increase public spending we won't elect them. (We probably won't anyway)
Then when the bubble bursts again we'll blame whoever else we can but ourselves.

Is that you enda? Politicians, banks and media colluded in creating a property bubble from 1998 to 2007, speculators deliberately manipulating and driving up property prices. Most people I know who 'bought', just wanted to have their own home. Stop saying it was the fault of ordinary people. The 'elites' of society gambled and ended up with there money back and unaccountable.

MRnotlob606 · 01-02-2015 11:25PM

Bill Gates and Warren Buffet actually do more for poverty than what the 99% does.

porsche959 · 01-02-2015 11:26PM

lufties wrote: »

By us I mean the little people, the 99%..in recent years I've become more aware of how the world is operated..rich getting richer and..you know the rest. I do wonder why the elites of the world want to constantly battle with us as fellow humans to extract money and squeeze as much as possible. You would think that the rupert murdochs/Rothschilds of this planet would have enough wealth to be satisfied, surely they have the sense to realise they are not immortal. Having thought about this a bit, I can only come to the conclusion that its about power and control, and that sociopaths are at the helm.

They don't, the opposite is the case if anything. They want us to keep buying tat. It was buying too much tat financed by credit that got us into this mess in the first place. Currently what we are seeing is a transfer of relative economic power from west to east in part because the west got over-leveraged.

lufties · 01-02-2015 11:26PM

Venus In Furs wrote: »

Why not entertaining?

Simply because if I respected someone(or there opinions), I wouldn't jump in with throwaway comments trying to take the piss. I'd at least give an opinion on the thread topic.

TheBeardedLady · 01-02-2015 11:28PM

Venus In Furs wrote: »

Why not entertaining?

It's exactly why I logged in to the thread. No sly digs, it was a joke that's been made 100s of times on Boards.

But I will say, Lufties, posting anonymously on a message board doesn't make you brave or controversial and nothing you've posted on here is anything new- I literally read similar every single day on here and in the media and in various blogs etc. and funnily enough, I actually agree with a lot of what you've said but if you want to assume the worst as you always do, go for it

But if you want to get thick with absolutely every single Boards poster ever, best of luck with that. This is AH where people take the piss - suck it up.

lufties · 01-02-2015 11:29PM

evo2000 wrote: »

There is a small percentage of people that hoard most of the worlds wealth alot of it in off shore accounts so it cant be taxed, its far from a conspiracy unfortunetly, that will never change greed is human nature!

http://www.forbes.com/sites/laurashin/2014/01/23/the-85-richest-people-in-the-world-have-as-much-wealth-as-the-3-5-billion-poorest/

The rich create the rules! the poor live by them!

Thats the thing, I don't think it could be possible for humans to be so greedy with money being the only motivation.

TheBeardedLady · 01-02-2015 11:30PM

lufties wrote: »

Simply because if I respected someone(or there opinions), I wouldn't jump in with throwaway comments trying to take the piss. I'd at least give an opinion on the thread topic.

This is After Hours - maybe Humanities would be suited to your needs?

I'll read your smart-arse remark in the morning.

endacl · 01-02-2015 11:30PM

lufties wrote: »

Is that you enda? Politicians, banks and media colluded in creating a property bubble from 1998 to 2007, speculators deliberately manipulating and driving up property prices. Most people I know who 'bought', just wanted to have their own home. Stop saying it was the fault of ordinary people. The 'elites' of society gambled and ended up with there money back and unaccountable.

I'm confused. Aren't the 1% the outlaw bikers? When did this paradigm shift occur? Is Murdoch a Bandido now?

evo2000 · 01-02-2015 11:30PM

lufties wrote: »

Thats the thing, I don't think it could be possible for humans to be so greedy with money being the only motivation.

Money = Power that d be the moativation behind it id imagine

lufties · 01-02-2015 11:31PM

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

This is After Hours - maybe Humanities would be suited to your needs?

I'll read your smart-arse remark in the morning.

Oh jesus go to bed , pain in the bloody hole.

KomradeBishop · 01-02-2015 11:32PM

lufties wrote: »

The ecb can create money with keys on a computer, yet the celtic tiger property bubble was a massive transfer of wealth and nationalisation of private failed banks in the name of neo liberal capitalism. People's lives were ruined in the process.

I agree, ya - there was no conspiracy behind it though, I believe the vast vast majority of the people involved and responsible, had no idea of the full consequences of their actions, nor did/would they care, so long as they got their gains at the time.

It's screwed up and it needs changing - and a lot of people will try to block that necessary change while it gives them an advantage (again, without being fully aware of or caring about the wider consequences of that) - but there isn't really any conspiracy behind it all, it's just the flaws in the current economic/political system we are in, and the wider short-sighted societal/business attitudes that are helping to protect/proliferate those political/economic flaws.

It's a bit like how we all have a good idea that we're causing worldwide climate change, and that it will soon become irreversible, yet don't do anything to stop it - and there are powerful political groups trying to block action against it (much of the same ones actually, who are against above reforms), to protect/expand their gains (so many of them probably see it as protecting what they have, rather than blocking change) - but that's not any kind of conspiracy either, it's yet another side-effect of our economic/political system (that depends upon neverending growth and thus carbon emissions), and wider societal attitudes that help protect/proliferate inaction.

01-02-2015 11:32PM

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

Bill Gates and Warren Buffet actually do more for poverty than what the 99% does.

With the share of wealth that they have, it's easy for them to contribute more than 99% of the population as they are able to do so.

It's good that they do, after all money is like manure, pile it all up in one place and it stinks! Spread it about and things can grow.

evo2000 · 01-02-2015 11:34PM

Deleted User wrote: »

With the share of wealth that they have, it's easy to contribute more than 99% of the population are able to.

It's good that they do, after all money is like manure, pile it all up in one place and it stinks! Spread it about and things can grow.

Infairness to bill gates, his planned to wipe out world hunger or atleast put a decent dent in it once he kicks the bucket!

StudentDad · 01-02-2015 11:34PM

This thread reminds me of the story of the two men running from a bear ....

why do elites want to cripple us so much

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