How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

K4t · 29-01-2015 4:32pm

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

So in other words to suit your agenda lets treat the other side unequal and get our way via bully boy tactics and to hell with any process once I get what I want, exemplifying you cant understand the basic meaning of quality.

Can't you see, I am offering a way for no agenda to exist. Scrap the debate, have the vote. If the Irish people do not believe in equality in 2015 then we do not deserve it and the referendum will not pass and we can move on and the YES voters can try and change things in the mean time.

But it is about homosexuals and being able or unable to marry, lets not convalute the issue.

Homosexuals can already get married my friend. Many of them already are. You might even be one yourself.

shruikan2553 · 29-01-2015 4:33pm

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

I'm not saying whether it's right or wrong with child marriage as cultures / laws lead them to different thinking.

But at a simple fundamental it is still a legal marriage between male and female

Which is the point of the referendum. Marriage will be available between 2 people regardless of gender. Laws can be and do change.

Ave Sodalis · 29-01-2015 4:33pm

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

But at a simple fundamental it is still a legal marriage between male and female

And that, to you, makes it okay and not worthy of doing anything about? Sure, it's fine, it's all legal. Who cares if people are denied their rights, who cares if it's child abuse etc, as long as the law stands. In fact, I'm going to actively try and keep that law because it's a law, no matter how bad it is.

Ctrl Alt Delete · 29-01-2015 4:34pm

floggg wrote: »

Nobody refused to listen to you, or to engage with you. You were just unable to do so because you admitted to have no reason in particular for your stance.

I stated my reasons multiple times and I will state it again in case you missed it.

My personal values on life, experiences, teachings and a very limited catholic influence on the matter lead to me to believe in the sanctity of marriage being between a male and a female only.

Outside of that I do not need to dissect or discuss my reasoning as my mind is firmly made up on the matter.

Ctrl Alt Delete · 29-01-2015 4:37pm

K4t wrote: »

Can't you see, I am offering a way for no agenda to exist. Scrap the debate, have the vote. If the Irish people do not believe in equality in 2015 then we do not deserve it and the referendum will not pass and we can move on and the YES voters can try and change things in the mean time.

Homosexuals can already get married my friend. Many of them already are. You might even be one yourself.

Cant you see posts like that do nothing to help your cause and only gives fuel to the argument that will be coming (not from me) about homosexuals not even respecting the referendum , institute of marriage in the first place.

You are just as much a hypocrit as others make me out to be. In fact I would say even more so , give what the referendum is about

I understand that its emotive but not one thing in your post exemplifies you have even the faintest understanding or appreciation for what equality actually is for example:

- We dont need a debate
- We dont need to hear from the no side
- The No side has lost lets be done with this and vote already
- If the yes side do happen to lose we will not respect it and try another referendum

You talk about equality ??? Don't make me laugh

floggg · 29-01-2015 4:40pm

spikeS wrote: »

No but will make it easier, they can adopt anyway but the marriage makes it so they cannot be discriminated against another married couple.

If it fails they can still adopt but will be lower on list then a married male/female couple

That is completely inaccurate.

There is no ranking or weighting on the list, and no one group gets any priority over another.

Children are placed in the most suitable home for them, regardless of family structure.

The referendum won't change that.

Ave Sodalis · 29-01-2015 4:40pm

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

Cant you see posts like that do nothing to help your cause and only gives fuel to the argument that will be coming (not from me) about homosexuals not even respecting the referendum , institute of marriage in the first place.

You are just as much a hypocrit as others make me out to be. In fact I would say even more so , give what the referendum is about

What's hypocritical about wanting to scrap a debate. I'm fairly sure the poster was talking about all debate, not just the no side. Can you explain the hypocrisy there?

jobbridge4life · 29-01-2015 4:40pm

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

I stated my reasons multiple times and I will state it again in case you missed it.

My personal values on life, experiences, teachings and a very limited catholic influence on the matter lead to me to believe in the sanctity of marriage being between a male and a female only.

Outside of that I do not need to dissect or discuss my reasoning as my mind is firmly made up on the matter.

But you haven't offered a single explanation, other than the firmly debunked children, to those who have respectfully asked you. You then repeatedly impugn the entire gay community for the actions of a tiny minority.

Ctrl Alt Delete · 29-01-2015 4:44pm

sup_dude wrote: »

And that, to you, makes it okay and not worthy of doing anything about? Sure, it's fine, it's all legal. Who cares if people are denied their rights, who cares if it's child abuse etc, as long as the law stands. In fact, I'm going to actively try and keep that law because it's a law, no matter how bad it is.

Oh so you are going to be hypocritical too I see.

Just like it is not OK for me to "discriminate" / not tolerate gay marriage who are you to say legal child marriage is wrong in a country your not even from ???

You need to be consistent in your points and not show clear double standards which you are clearly showing and it's "the gay way" of thinking or no way.

29-01-2015 4:45pm

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

My personal values on life, experiences, teachings and a very limited catholic influence on the matter lead to me to believe in the sanctity of marriage being between a male and a female only.

The phrase "Sanctity of marriage" sounds nice on paper. It really at first glance sounds like the person using it is saying something. When you unpack it however there is nothing there but air. What the phrase really means - it would seem - is that you have little interest in anything but maintenance of the status quo. For little or no reason other than it IS the status quo.

The first half of your paragraph here is similarly empty air. It is a string of words designed to lend to the notion that you have some substance there to your position - while contriving to not actually offer or present _any_ of it.

Little wonder you dodged answering my last post - and the posts of others - by temporarily pretending to leave the thread for awhile. But there is a user around here who has noted that the probability of a person posting on a thread actually goes up with the number of times they have claimed they will not. Guess he is right again.

Ave Sodalis · 29-01-2015 4:46pm

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

Oh so you are going to be hypocritical too I see.

Just like it is not OK for me to "discriminate" / not tolerate gay marriage who are you to say legal child marriage is wrong in a country your not even from ???

You need to be consistent in your points and not show clear double standards which you are clearly showing and it's "the gay way" of thinking or no way.

Hypocritical in what way? What double standards? I'm not even gay! I've no idea what you're talking about.

Ctrl Alt Delete · 29-01-2015 4:47pm

jobbridge4life wrote: »

But you haven't offered a single explanation, other than the firmly debunked children, to those who have respectfully asked you. You then repeatedly impugn the entire gay community for the actions of a tiny minority.

I don't need to offer a single explanation for my beliefs or opinions.

I hold the belief that man & woman should marry and have children end of discussion period.

Have I asked anyone here why they chose / grew up / were born gay or to justify it ?

Lyaiera · 29-01-2015 4:48pm

Sometimes I imagine a world where voters are too thick to get to the polling station.

K4t · 29-01-2015 4:51pm

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

Cant you see posts like that do nothing to help your cause and only gives fuel to the argument that will be coming (not from me) about homosexuals not even respecting the referendum , institute of marriage in the first place.

You talk about equality ??? Don't make me laugh

I would rather scrap the whole debate (including the YES side argument of which is simply equal rights and needs no argument) if it meant it would also stop a platform being given to those who would actively oppose equal rights and and spread their crazy ideas on morality(you don't seem to understand the difference between a platform and freedom of expression and speech) and allow people to make up their own minds on an issue like equal rights. You know all too well that this would suit the YES side as people would be allowed to think for themselves and as human beings in 2015 would I am convinced side with their fellow human beings.

jobbridge4life · 29-01-2015 4:51pm

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

I don't need to offer a single explanation for my beliefs or opinions.

I hold the belief that man & woman should marry and have children end of discussion period.

Have I asked anyone here why they chose / grew up / were born gay or to justify it ?

Then why enter a discussion thread?

Also there is no equivalency between people inquiring about your position on a referendum vote and demanding to know the origins of someones sexuality. That is ludicrous.

In addition you can't seriously suggest that gay people chose to be gay...

spikeS · 29-01-2015 4:51pm

Lyaiera wrote: »

Sometimes I imagine a world where voters are too thick to get to the polling station.

I imagine a world where we don't need to and the government just passed equality without the need for people to vote

Ctrl Alt Delete · 29-01-2015 4:53pm

Deleted User wrote: »

The phrase "Sanctity of marriage" sounds nice on paper. It really at first glance sounds like the person using it is saying something. When you unpack it however there is nothing there but air.

Sure nice post deconstruct there but to be blunt again I believe in the importance and inviolability of marriage or to use another word sanctity

The fact that I believe marriage should be between man and wife only means that same sex marriage would most definitely violate that belief.

It's not my fault if all you see are a string of words and cant understand that. Also, seeing as alot of people quote me its easy to miss questions in such a fast moving thead

Ctrl Alt Delete · 29-01-2015 4:58pm

K4t wrote: »

I would rather scrap the whole debate (including the YES side argument of which is simply equal rights and needs no argument) if it meant it would also stop a platform being given to those who would actively oppose equal rights and and spread their crazy ideas on morality(you don't seem to understand the difference between a platform and freedom of expression and speech) and allow people to make up their own minds on an issue like equal rights. You know all too well that this would suit the YES side as people would be allowed to think for themselves and as human beings in 2015 would I am convinced side with their fellow human beings.

You don't seem to understand the simple process of democracy and / or referenda let alone the actual processes involved in changing the constitution.

What you seek is censorship to suit your agenda and if you are too blinded , silly or biased to see that and how it undermines what the fundamental point of this referendum is about then that is yours problem and certainly not mine.

Like I said please , PLEASE do feel free to get involved in debates on TV and radio.

jobbridge4life · 29-01-2015 4:58pm

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

f.

It's not my fault if all you see are a string of words and cant understand that.

It is your fault but no one fails to understand you. A statement like 'my personal views make me believe that gay marriage is wrong' is meaningless and evasionary. It is the nature of these personal views and the reasons or manner in which they prevent you supporting equal marriage that is of interest.

jobbridge4life · 29-01-2015 5:00pm

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

You don't seem to understand the simple process of democracy and / or referenda let alone the actual processes involved in changing the constitution.

What you seek is censorship to suit your agenda and if you are too blinded , silly or biased to see that and how it undermines what the fundamental point of this referendum is about then that is yours problem and certainly not mine.

Like I said please , PLEASE do feel free to get involved in debates on TV and radio.

The referendum is about a majority being asked to decide whether to recognize the human rights of a minority. This is a dangerous precedent. Imagine a vote tomorrow about whether to allow people of african descent Irish citizenship.

OldNotWIse · 29-01-2015 5:01pm

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

Sure nice post deconstruct there but to be blunt again I believe in the importance and inviolability of marriage or to use another word sanctity

The fact that I believe marriage should be between man and wife only means that same sex marriage would most definitely violate that belief.

It's not my fault if all you see are a string of words and cant understand that. Also, seeing as alot of people quote me its easy to miss questions in such a fast moving thead

How would same sex marriage violate the sanctity of marriage as it exists? If the two guys next door to you tie the knot, will that affect your marriage? I've yet to see anyone baging on about the "sanctity of marriage" worry themselves about pre-marriage sex, extra-marital affairs, divorce etc :rolleyes:

bodice ripper · 29-01-2015 5:02pm

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

Sure nice post deconstruct there but to be blunt again I believe in the importance and inviolability of marriage or to use another word sanctity

The fact that I believe marriage should be between man and wife only means that same sex marriage would most definitely violate that belief.

It's not my fault if all you see are a string of words and cant understand that. Also, seeing as alot of people quote me its easy to miss questions in such a fast moving thead

your reliegious views should have no bearing on other people's lives.

Ctrl Alt Delete · 29-01-2015 5:02pm

jobbridge4life wrote: »

Then why enter a discussion thread?

Also there is no equivalency between people inquiring about your position on a referendum vote and demanding to know the origins of someones sexuality. That is ludicrous.

Of course there is, for example I am heterosexual. (Don't answer because either way i don't care) but are you gay ? Because if you are that is more than likely (if not fully likely) the reason you are pro yes is it not?

jobbridge4life wrote: »

In addition you can't seriously suggest that gay people chose to be gay...

The reason I listed all three is because honestly its something I have given very little time on pondering. I'm not being flippant saying that either.

But choosing to be gay no it's more likely nature and sometimes possibly nurture.

Ave Sodalis · 29-01-2015 5:04pm

sup_dude wrote: »

Hypocritical in what way? What double standards? I'm not even gay! I've no idea what you're talking about.

I'd like these answered please CTRL

Daith · 29-01-2015 5:04pm

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

The fact that I believe marriage should be between man and wife only means that same sex marriage would most definitely violate that belief.

That's fine. I find that belief in general to be bigoted, anti-equality and discriminatory but support your right to have that opinion.

As long as you're still not suggesting you're pro-gay equality that's cool.

Ctrl Alt Delete · 29-01-2015 5:07pm

jobbridge4life wrote: »

The referendum is about a majority being asked to decide whether to recognize the human rights of a minority. This is a dangerous precedent. Imagine a vote tomorrow about whether to allow people of african descent Irish citizenship.

According to others here the majority are in favor so I dont see a major issue.

It's not a dangerous precendent, because guess what that precendent was set LONG ago the majority is always going to be asked to decide on the minority.

Though its a mute semantic point but the minority isn't the minority if it won, it was the majority deciding on itself.

Ctrl Alt Delete · 29-01-2015 5:07pm

jobbridge4life wrote: »

It is the nature of these personal views and the reasons or manner in which they prevent you supporting equal marriage that is of interest.

But why because you will never change my intention to vote no and is the same as me trying to understand why someone is gay.

Its a pure exercise in futility

Zubeneschamali · 29-01-2015 5:08pm

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

I hold the belief that man & woman should marry and have children end of discussion period.

So my widowed father should not have married my widowed stepmother? They were too old for any more kids, and their own kids were grown.

We should have a referendum to stamp out that kind of aberrant marriage.

Lyaiera · 29-01-2015 5:08pm

I'd choose to be bisexual if I could.

Daith · 29-01-2015 5:09pm

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

It's not a dangerous precendent, because guess what that precendent was set LONG ago the majority is always going to be asked to decide on the minority.

Not at all? Did the majority decide about decriminalization of homosexuality?

How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

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