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How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

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Comments

  • #1262
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    No thats called Sharia law in Islam and has nothing to do with the topic really.

    Actually, you made it part of the topic. Is it only Irish law that determines what's discrimination?


  • #1263
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

    The rule of law is what the world turns on. Whats to stop you going up North and getting married and having the same rights under the Civil Partnership Bill in the South ?

    The fact that SSM doesn't exist in the North either?


  • #1264
    Ctrl Alt Delete
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    shruikan2553 wrote: »
    If they were allowed to take the bus as long as they stayed in their own section would it be equal?

    No that's called segregation


  • #1265
    Daith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,259 ✭✭✭Daith


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    No that's called segregation

    Yes, two different institutes for two different groups.
    One based on colour and the other based on gender.

    Should we have had interracial civil partnerships and "same colour" marriages?


  • #1266
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    No thats called Sharia law in Islam and has nothing to do with the topic really but it's their culture and their way of life. You argue people have no right to tell gays what to do surely it would be same here in that case no ?

    The rule of law is what the world turns on like it or lump it.

    Whats to stop you going up North and getting married and having the same rights under the Civil Partnership Bill in the South ?

    It is also the law of the land in those countries, it may have nothing to do with the issue here but it does have relevance in so far as it challenges your absurd approach to discrimination.


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  • #1267
    Ctrl Alt Delete
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    sup_dude wrote: »
    The fact that SSM can't get married in the North either?

    civil partnership is the same thing no ?


  • #1268
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    civil partnership is the same thing no ?

    No it isn't there are numerous legal differences...


  • #1269
    Ctrl Alt Delete
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    It is also the law of the land in those countries, it may have nothing to do with the issue here but it does have relevance in so far as it challenges your absurd approach to discrimination.

    And as such I respect the law of their land as is their sovereign right. You have to respect the current law of the land here equally.

    I mean after all there are plenty of countries around the world were gay marriage is legal , so why not just be equal and "go foreign" same way a straight couple would ?


  • #1270
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    Please show me the legal definition or where I am discriminating against gay people for not agreeing with them being allowed to marry ???

    So you're saying there was no such thing as discrimination until we adopted anti-discrimination legislation?

    Then why did we need the legislation?


  • #1271
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    civil partnership is the same thing no ?

    No.
    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    And as such I respect the law of their land as is their sovereign right. You have to respect the current law of the land here equally.

    I mean after all there are plenty of countries around the world were gay marriage is legal , so why not just be equal and "go foreign" same way a straight couple would ?

    Yeah, no bother! Sure everyone has thousands to spend on a foreign holiday to get married because their own country doesn't want them.


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  • #1272
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    And as such I respect the law of their land as is their sovereign right. You have to respect the current law of the land here equally.

    I mean after all there are plenty of countries around the world were gay marriage is legal , so why not just be equal and "go foreign" same way a straight couple would ?

    Some countries allow child marriage, forgive me for not respecting their laws.

    Suppose they shouldnt change it, wouldnt want to change the definition of marriage.


  • #1273
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    And as such I respect the law of their land as is their sovereign right. You have to respect the current law of the land here equally.

    I have no respect for barbarous regimes that use medieval punishments no sorry. In relation to Ireland I am obligated to respect the law in so far as I am required not to break it, beyond that nothing.
    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    I mean after all there are plenty of countries around the world were gay marriage is legal , so why not just be equal and "go foreign" same way a straight couple would ?

    How would that remedy the discrimination in Ireland?


  • #1274
    floggg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,821 ✭✭✭floggg


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    Yep most definiely, I don't need anything to support my position I'm not on this thread to discuss merits of voting yes or no.

    As I said yesterday I'd hazard a (random) guess that 80-90% of voters already know their decision of voting yes or not (regardless of their reason / rationale) or voting yes or no.

    Discussion is going to do very little to sway either side as the fundamental question in this referendum is a massive gulf between yes and no sides.


    How exactly?

    You were asked for your reasoning and couldn't give any. Not only were people giving you the chance to set out your case, they were pleading with you to do so!

    Nobody refused to listen to you, or to engage with you. You were just unable to do so because you admitted to have no reason in particular for your stance.

    The only consequence was that people made their feelings known on your stance - which we all invite by contributing to a discussion board.

    But I don't know if there was even one post which could be described in any way as attempting to prevent you from expressing your opinions - quote the opposite.


  • #1275
    Ctrl Alt Delete
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    shruikan2553 wrote: »
    Some countries allow child marriage, forgive me for not respecting their laws.

    Suppose they shouldnt change it, wouldnt want to change the definition of marriage.

    I'm not saying whether it's right or wrong with child marriage as cultures / laws lead them to different thinking.

    But at a simple fundamental it is still a legal marriage between male and female


  • #1276
    Ctrl Alt Delete
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    I have no respect for barbarous regimes that use medieval punishments no sorry.

    It's off topic but have you have ever seen a stoning video , the hole, the capping stone, the full tunic ???


  • #1277
    K4t
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,362 ✭✭✭K4t


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    So in other words to suit your agenda lets treat the other side unequal and get our way via bully boy tactics and to hell with any process once I get what I want, exemplifying you cant understand the basic meaning of quality.
    Can't you see, I am offering a way for no agenda to exist. Scrap the debate, have the vote. If the Irish people do not believe in equality in 2015 then we do not deserve it and the referendum will not pass and we can move on and the YES voters can try and change things in the mean time.
    But it is about homosexuals and being able or unable to marry, lets not convalute the issue.
    Homosexuals can already get married my friend. Many of them already are. You might even be one yourself. :)


  • #1278
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    I'm not saying whether it's right or wrong with child marriage as cultures / laws lead them to different thinking.

    But at a simple fundamental it is still a legal marriage between male and female

    Which is the point of the referendum. Marriage will be available between 2 people regardless of gender. Laws can be and do change.


  • #1279
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

    But at a simple fundamental it is still a legal marriage between male and female

    And that, to you, makes it okay and not worthy of doing anything about? Sure, it's fine, it's all legal. Who cares if people are denied their rights, who cares if it's child abuse etc, as long as the law stands. In fact, I'm going to actively try and keep that law because it's a law, no matter how bad it is.


  • #1280
    Ctrl Alt Delete
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    floggg wrote: »
    Nobody refused to listen to you, or to engage with you. You were just unable to do so because you admitted to have no reason in particular for your stance.

    I stated my reasons multiple times and I will state it again in case you missed it.

    My personal values on life, experiences, teachings and a very limited catholic influence on the matter lead to me to believe in the sanctity of marriage being between a male and a female only.

    Outside of that I do not need to dissect or discuss my reasoning as my mind is firmly made up on the matter.


  • #1281
    Ctrl Alt Delete
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    K4t wrote: »
    Can't you see, I am offering a way for no agenda to exist. Scrap the debate, have the vote. If the Irish people do not believe in equality in 2015 then we do not deserve it and the referendum will not pass and we can move on and the YES voters can try and change things in the mean time.

    Homosexuals can already get married my friend. Many of them already are. You might even be one yourself. :)

    Cant you see posts like that do nothing to help your cause and only gives fuel to the argument that will be coming (not from me) about homosexuals not even respecting the referendum , institute of marriage in the first place.

    You are just as much a hypocrit as others make me out to be. In fact I would say even more so , give what the referendum is about

    I understand that its emotive but not one thing in your post exemplifies you have even the faintest understanding or appreciation for what equality actually is for example:

    - We dont need a debate
    - We dont need to hear from the no side
    - The No side has lost lets be done with this and vote already
    - If the yes side do happen to lose we will not respect it and try another referendum

    You talk about equality ??? Don't make me laugh


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  • #1282
    floggg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,821 ✭✭✭floggg


    spikeS wrote: »
    No but will make it easier, they can adopt anyway but the marriage makes it so they cannot be discriminated against another married couple.

    If it fails they can still adopt but will be lower on list then a married male/female couple

    That is completely inaccurate.


    There is no ranking or weighting on the list, and no one group gets any priority over another.

    Children are placed in the most suitable home for them, regardless of family structure.

    The referendum won't change that.


  • #1283
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    Cant you see posts like that do nothing to help your cause and only gives fuel to the argument that will be coming (not from me) about homosexuals not even respecting the referendum , institute of marriage in the first place.

    You are just as much a hypocrit as others make me out to be. In fact I would say even more so , give what the referendum is about

    What's hypocritical about wanting to scrap a debate. I'm fairly sure the poster was talking about all debate, not just the no side. Can you explain the hypocrisy there?


  • #1284
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    I stated my reasons multiple times and I will state it again in case you missed it.

    My personal values on life, experiences, teachings and a very limited catholic influence on the matter lead to me to believe in the sanctity of marriage being between a male and a female only.

    Outside of that I do not need to dissect or discuss my reasoning as my mind is firmly made up on the matter.

    But you haven't offered a single explanation, other than the firmly debunked children, to those who have respectfully asked you. You then repeatedly impugn the entire gay community for the actions of a tiny minority.


  • #1285
    Ctrl Alt Delete
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    sup_dude wrote: »
    And that, to you, makes it okay and not worthy of doing anything about? Sure, it's fine, it's all legal. Who cares if people are denied their rights, who cares if it's child abuse etc, as long as the law stands. In fact, I'm going to actively try and keep that law because it's a law, no matter how bad it is.

    Oh so you are going to be hypocritical too I see.

    Just like it is not OK for me to "discriminate" / not tolerate gay marriage who are you to say legal child marriage is wrong in a country your not even from ???

    You need to be consistent in your points and not show clear double standards which you are clearly showing and it's "the gay way" of thinking or no way.


  • #1286
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,344 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    My personal values on life, experiences, teachings and a very limited catholic influence on the matter lead to me to believe in the sanctity of marriage being between a male and a female only.

    The phrase "Sanctity of marriage" sounds nice on paper. It really at first glance sounds like the person using it is saying something. When you unpack it however there is nothing there but air. What the phrase really means - it would seem - is that you have little interest in anything but maintenance of the status quo. For little or no reason other than it IS the status quo.

    The first half of your paragraph here is similarly empty air. It is a string of words designed to lend to the notion that you have some substance there to your position - while contriving to not actually offer or present _any_ of it.

    Little wonder you dodged answering my last post - and the posts of others - by temporarily pretending to leave the thread for awhile. But there is a user around here who has noted that the probability of a person posting on a thread actually goes up with the number of times they have claimed they will not. Guess he is right again.


  • #1287
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    Oh so you are going to be hypocritical too I see.

    Just like it is not OK for me to "discriminate" / not tolerate gay marriage who are you to say legal child marriage is wrong in a country your not even from ???

    You need to be consistent in your points and not show clear double standards which you are clearly showing and it's "the gay way" of thinking or no way.

    Hypocritical in what way? What double standards? I'm not even gay! I've no idea what you're talking about.


  • #1288
    Ctrl Alt Delete
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    But you haven't offered a single explanation, other than the firmly debunked children, to those who have respectfully asked you. You then repeatedly impugn the entire gay community for the actions of a tiny minority.

    I don't need to offer a single explanation for my beliefs or opinions.

    I hold the belief that man & woman should marry and have children end of discussion period.

    Have I asked anyone here why they chose / grew up / were born gay or to justify it ?


  • #1289
    Lyaiera
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭Lyaiera


    Sometimes I imagine a world where voters are too thick to get to the polling station.


  • #1290
    K4t
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,362 ✭✭✭K4t


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    Cant you see posts like that do nothing to help your cause and only gives fuel to the argument that will be coming (not from me) about homosexuals not even respecting the referendum , institute of marriage in the first place.

    You talk about equality ??? Don't make me laugh
    I would rather scrap the whole debate (including the YES side argument of which is simply equal rights and needs no argument) if it meant it would also stop a platform being given to those who would actively oppose equal rights and and spread their crazy ideas on morality(you don't seem to understand the difference between a platform and freedom of expression and speech) and allow people to make up their own minds on an issue like equal rights. You know all too well that this would suit the YES side as people would be allowed to think for themselves and as human beings in 2015 would I am convinced side with their fellow human beings.


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  • #1291
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    I don't need to offer a single explanation for my beliefs or opinions.

    I hold the belief that man & woman should marry and have children end of discussion period.

    Have I asked anyone here why they chose / grew up / were born gay or to justify it ?

    Then why enter a discussion thread?

    Also there is no equivalency between people inquiring about your position on a referendum vote and demanding to know the origins of someones sexuality. That is ludicrous.

    In addition you can't seriously suggest that gay people chose to be gay...


This discussion has been closed.
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