Threat to Six Nations free to air viewing.

slowburner · 29-01-2015 12:05PM #1

A report in today's Telegraph.

http://http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/sixnations/11375761/Six-Nations-considers-exit-from-free-to-air-television.html

29-01-2015 12:25PM

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/sixnations/11375761/Six-Nations-considers-exit-from-free-to-air-television.html

There is nothing I would detest more than having to watch Sky or BT for the 6N. BT is utterly dreadful for the european rugby

vienne86 · 29-01-2015 12:30PM

OK what's the situation re FTA in Ireland for the 6N?

OldRio · 29-01-2015 12:40PM

Deleted User wrote: »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/sixnations/11375761/Six-Nations-considers-exit-from-free-to-air-television.html

There is nothing I would detest more than having to watch Sky or BT for the 6N. BT is utterly dreadful for the european rugby

Awful news, but why am I not surprised?

ThisRegard · 29-01-2015 12:48PM

vienne86 wrote: »

OK what's the situation re FTA in Ireland for the 6N?

It's a category B event, which means that there at least has to be delayed broadcast or highlights.

So the live match is not actually protected as long as say the game or highlights are shown later on free to air or terrestrial.

As it is, nothing stopping Sky or BT buying the live rights.

vienne86 · 29-01-2015 12:53PM

ThisRegard wrote: »

It's a category B event, which means that there at least has to be delayed broadcast or highlights.

So the live match is not actually protected as long as say the game or highlights are shown later on free to air or terrestrial.

As it is, nothing stopping Sky or BT buying the live rights.

Bummer. A lot of regular fans have Sky and/or BT, but casual fans usually don't. I used to be one of those myself, and loved watching he 6N, but had I not been able to see it live, I doubt my interest in rugby would have progressed. I think it would be awful if the 6N were not FTA.

icdg · 29-01-2015 01:01PM

In fact, it's the only category B event in Ireland. Strange but true. We're talking three years before this would come to fruition which is a long time in broadcasting.

The viability of all pay-TV sports broadcasters rests on access to the "killer app", the FA Premier League. The auction for this is due to happen (subject to an application from Virgin Media to have it stopped) in the next fortnight and if BT Sport were to lose the rights there is a stronge chance theyd bail from sports altogether. Now theyd be replaced (as they replaced ESPN themselves) but that's to show how volatile this industry is - the whole thing is built on top of the Premier League rights and acquiring and keeping them.

oisinog · 29-01-2015 01:10PM

BT sports are going no where fast the have the champions league rights from next season

Robbo · 29-01-2015 01:10PM

Still, at least the Nations Cup at the Dublin Horse Show is one of the golden events that must still be free-to-air. As long as that inspires young kids on the street to pick up a pair of jodphurs and a blazer, we can be assured of our sporting heritage.

More seriously, this is the opening shots in the re-negotiation of the rights deals. RTE are sound until 2017 and they really make a huge deal of it being one of the centrepieces of their annual sports calendar and sell the advertising accordingly. The BBC will always be hamstrung in not being able to sell ads.

Winters · 29-01-2015 01:10PM

The unions are reacting to a number of issues here. Market forces and new competition not to mention artificially increased salaries pushing up inflation in the rugby industry. They need more revenues to keep developing players and to keep their developed players.

If was always going to happen but is more urgent now with the private owners in such power.

icdg · 29-01-2015 01:12PM

oisinog wrote: »

BT sports are going no where fast the have the champions league rights from next season

Not a driver for subscriptions the way the Premier League is, particularly since in any given season there is the possiblity (though rare) that there will be no English involvement after Christmas. The Premier League is the "banker" for both Sky and BT - everything else is a bonus.

ThisRegard · 29-01-2015 01:18PM

Robbo wrote: »

Still, at least the Nations Cup at the Dublin Horse Show is one of the golden events that must still be free-to-air.

Where the results of the consultation ever published, i.e. has the list changed on the basis of submissions ?

Winters wrote: »

The unions are reacting to a number of issues here. Market forces and new competition not to mention artificially increased salaries pushing up inflation in the rugby industry. They need more revenues to keep developing players and to keep their developed players.

If was always going to happen but is more urgent now with the private owners in such power.

How much influence do the unions have in the 6 Nations making the decision to put this idea out there ?

irishbucsfan · 29-01-2015 01:21PM

We should do whatever offers the most value to Irish rugby. I'd be firmly in the camp that FTA is a lot more valuable to us than Sky/BT would be, unless they're willing to offer a massive amount of cash.

CatFromHue · 29-01-2015 01:25PM

Robbo wrote: »

Still, at least the Nations Cup at the Dublin Horse Show is one of the golden events that must still be free-to-air. As long as that inspires young kids on the street to pick up a pair of jodphurs and a blazer, we can be assured of our sporting heritage.

More seriously, this is the opening shots in the re-negotiation of the rights deals. RTE are sound until 2017 and they really make a huge deal of it being one of the centrepieces of their annual sports calendar and sell the advertising accordingly. The BBC will always be hamstrung in not being able to sell ads.

I wouldn't have that much faith in RTE if they're put under pressure for the 6N.

They were never really interested in the Celtic league and only broadcast it for 2 years I think, dropping it when Sky came along.

They had the HEC when it was free to air but again lost it and highlights to it over the years.

The AI's are not shown FTA in the North.

The don't have the RWC.

If the 6N does go to a subscription channel RTE will be happy with the deferred footage if you ask me.

aimee1 · 29-01-2015 01:25PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

We should do whatever offers the most value to Irish rugby. I'd be firmly in the camp that FTA is a lot more valuable to us than Sky/BT would be, unless they're willing to offer a massive amount of cash.

The alcohol sponsorship issue adds to this too.

Winters · 29-01-2015 01:37PM

ThisRegard wrote: »

How much influence do the unions have in the 6 Nations making the decision to put this idea out there ?

The 6 unions of the 6 nations are equal shareholders in the 6 nations and receive revenue based on a mixture of shareholding, success and size.

The results of the FTA review haven't been released but I'm sure they will be before the deals are signed. If the 6n move to FTA in UK and/or Ireland it will certainly influence the negotiating.

vienne86 · 29-01-2015 01:57PM

CatFromHue wrote: »

I wouldn't have that much faith in RTE if they're put under pressure for the 6N.

They were never really interested in the Celtic league and only broadcast it for 2 years I think, dropping it when Sky came along.

They had the HEC when it was free to air but again lost it and highlights to it over the years.

The AI's are not shown FTA in the North.

The don't have the RWC.

If the 6N does go to a subscription channel RTE will be happy with the deferred footage if you ask me.

So the 6N is all RTE have now.......they just don't seem to me to be that interested in rugby.

CatFromHue · 29-01-2015 02:00PM

I'm not sure if they have the money to be interested tbh.

bilston · 29-01-2015 02:10PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

We should do whatever offers the most value to Irish rugby. I'd be firmly in the camp that FTA is a lot more valuable to us than Sky/BT would be, unless they're willing to offer a massive amount of cash.

I agree, the Six Nations transcends rugby and taking it off FTA would be a big big risk. In saying that if Sky or BT come in with a stupid offer it will be hard to turn down. The Beeb fork put approx €50m a year as it stands, it's hard to imagine they could justify spending much more than that.

I think Sky in particular would probably do a good job covering it, they'd probably set up a Six Nations channel like they do for the Ashes or Ryder Cup and I suppose they could also cover the U20s and Womens Six Nations in a manner that they haven't been before. But the risks are obvious. I think it would take a big big offer, but it's possible, Sky have been hurt by BT recently and this could be a way for them to get back on their game. This plus the real money spinner of the Premier League will make for interesting watching over the next couple of years.

OldRio · 29-01-2015 02:22PM

CatFromHue wrote: »

I'm not sure if they have the money to be interested tbh.

Surely they could have outbid TV3 for the RWC.

29-01-2015 02:34PM

OldRio wrote: »

Surely they could have outbid TV3 for the RWC.

It was probably the only thing TV3 bid for in the entire year.

CatFromHue · 29-01-2015 02:49PM

I don't know tbh.

Do TV3 still have the X factor, or whatever it's called now, on Saturday nights or did that move to UTV Ireland.

TG4 on a Friday night and TV3 on a Saturday night for Pro12 would go down very nicely if you ask me.

Uno my Uno. · 29-01-2015 03:28PM

I think RTE will be desperate to hold on to the 6N, it is the only international Sporting event they have left and is regularly their most viewed broadcast of the year, it has even topped the All Ireland Finals on occasion. Its a massive revenue generator and it fills a lot of hours, without it the Sports department will be in serious trouble, there isn't a mass audience for Club Level GAA or other sports played in Ireland and RTE can't afford anything else.

In a bigger picture the move from FTA could be seriously detrimental for Irish Rugby, the massive growth in its popularity and the linked growth in player numbers is surely strongly related to the massive push and exposure the sport has had from television over the last 15 years. If the 6N goes to Sky or BT that exposure is going to plummet and that will directly affect the sports popularity.

Neil3030 · 29-01-2015 03:32PM

The only silver lining would be seeing Hook removed from the airwaves. Sky would do a nice job, but yeah it'd otherwise be a real shame to see it taken off FTA.

total former · 29-01-2015 03:34PM

Neil3030 wrote: »

The only silver lining would be seeing Hook removed from the airwaves. Sky would do a nice job, but yeah it'd otherwise be a real shame to see it taken off FTA.

He's retiring anyway.

TBH, RTE are totally peripheral to this. If BBC pony up for the UK rights, then Sky and BT will lose interest and RTE will get in by default.

Uno my Uno. · 29-01-2015 03:37PM

total former wrote: »

He's retiring anyway.

TBH, RTE are totally peripheral to this. If BBC pony up for the UK rights, then Sky and BT will lose interest and RTE will get in by default.

the Beeb are in a similar position regards their Sport offering but they are under even greater budgetary pressure being funded exclusively from the Licence fee, if it wasn't for the protections in the 6N Union Agreements they would have lost the rights years ago.

Neil3030 · 29-01-2015 03:37PM

total former wrote: »

He's retiring anyway.

TBH, RTE are totally peripheral to this. If BBC pony up for the UK rights, then Sky and BT will lose interest and RTE will get in by default.

Good point. Though not peripheral from our perspective (assuming we are all Irish viewers).

Neil3030 · 29-01-2015 03:44PM

I think it's a bit misleading to say that because the BBC can't advertise, they are under budgetary pressure:

Wikipedia wrote:

According to the BBC's 2012/13 Annual Report its total income was £5,102.3 million,[1] which can be broken down as follows:

£3,656.2 million in licence fees collected from householders;
£1,101.2 million from the BBC's Commercial Businesses - e.g., sale of shows' rights to foreign broadcasters;
£269.7 million from government grants, of which 264.7 million is from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office for the BBC World Service;
£75.2 million from other income, such as rental collections and royalties from overseas broadcasts of programming.

So they trouser north of £5bn a year - a few million more to secure the rugby is surely not a huge ask

Uno my Uno. · 29-01-2015 03:56PM

Neil3030 wrote: »

I think it's a bit misleading to say that because the BBC can't advertise, they are under budgetary pressure:

So they trouser north of £5bn a year - a few million more to secure the rugby is surely not a huge ask

Well I think they might see it as a massive ask, they have to justify (rightly or wrongly) money spent on acquiring rights to sporting events to the voters and Tax Payers and aren't able to justify it as a commercial decision. It is a political issue that has caused the BBC to lose several events and sports over the years, F1, Moto GP, and even Premiership highilghts at one stage. The real problem is that the offers Sky or BT might make for the 6N would likely be far in excess of what the BBC are currently paying so it might not be matter of "just"

a few more million.

Winters · 29-01-2015 04:21PM

Mad to think all this over an event that only spans two months of the year. The advertising revenue must be greater over an event spanning a full season.

Akrasia · 29-01-2015 04:30PM

CatFromHue wrote: »

I wouldn't have that much faith in RTE if they're put under pressure for the 6N.

They were never really interested in the Celtic league and only broadcast it for 2 years I think, dropping it when Sky came along.

They had the HEC when it was free to air but again lost it and highlights to it over the years.

The AI's are not shown FTA in the North.

The don't have the RWC.

If the 6N does go to a subscription channel RTE will be happy with the deferred footage if you ask me.

In which case, the tv licence becomes even more of a complete waste of money

Our only hope really, is that the BBC will fight to retain the rights. If BBC don't have the interest, RTE certainly won't be able to compete against Sky/BT

Perhaps RTE needs to enter into a joint bid with the BBC and the French and Italian state broadcasters?

As part of a public interest broadcasting coalition to keep the rights for these games in the public domain and promote the sport. (Rugby is different from soccer, in that it's trying to expand to new markets and improve global interest in the sport)

Threat to Six Nations free to air viewing.

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