Threat to Six Nations free to air viewing.

slowburner

A report in today's Telegraph.


http://http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/sixnations/11375761/Six-Nations-considers-exit-from-free-to-air-television.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/sixnations/11375761/Six-Nations-considers-exit-from-free-to-air-television.html

There is nothing I would detest more than having to watch Sky or BT for the 6N. BT is utterly dreadful for the european rugby

vienne86

OK what's the situation re FTA in Ireland for the 6N?

OldRio

Deleted User wrote: »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/sixnations/11375761/Six-Nations-considers-exit-from-free-to-air-television.html

There is nothing I would detest more than having to watch Sky or BT for the 6N. BT is utterly dreadful for the european rugby

Awful news, but why am I not surprised?

ThisRegard

vienne86 wrote: »

OK what's the situation re FTA in Ireland for the 6N?

It's a category B event, which means that there at least has to be delayed broadcast or highlights.

So the live match is not actually protected as long as say the game or highlights are shown later on free to air or terrestrial.

As it is, nothing stopping Sky or BT buying the live rights.

vienne86

ThisRegard wrote: »

It's a category B event, which means that there at least has to be delayed broadcast or highlights.

So the live match is not actually protected as long as say the game or highlights are shown later on free to air or terrestrial.

As it is, nothing stopping Sky or BT buying the live rights.

Bummer. A lot of regular fans have Sky and/or BT, but casual fans usually don't. I used to be one of those myself, and loved watching he 6N, but had I not been able to see it live, I doubt my interest in rugby would have progressed. I think it would be awful if the 6N were not FTA.

icdg

In fact, it's the only category B event in Ireland. Strange but true. We're talking three years before this would come to fruition which is a long time in broadcasting.

The viability of all pay-TV sports broadcasters rests on access to the "killer app", the FA Premier League. The auction for this is due to happen (subject to an application from Virgin Media to have it stopped) in the next fortnight and if BT Sport were to lose the rights there is a stronge chance theyd bail from sports altogether. Now theyd be replaced (as they replaced ESPN themselves) but that's to show how volatile this industry is - the whole thing is built on top of the Premier League rights and acquiring and keeping them.

oisinog

BT sports are going no where fast the have the champions league rights from next season

Robbo

Still, at least the Nations Cup at the Dublin Horse Show is one of the golden events that must still be free-to-air. As long as that inspires young kids on the street to pick up a pair of jodphurs and a blazer, we can be assured of our sporting heritage.

More seriously, this is the opening shots in the re-negotiation of the rights deals. RTE are sound until 2017 and they really make a huge deal of it being one of the centrepieces of their annual sports calendar and sell the advertising accordingly. The BBC will always be hamstrung in not being able to sell ads.

Winters

The unions are reacting to a number of issues here. Market forces and new competition not to mention artificially increased salaries pushing up inflation in the rugby industry. They need more revenues to keep developing players and to keep their developed players.

If was always going to happen but is more urgent now with the private owners in such power.

icdg

oisinog wrote: »

BT sports are going no where fast the have the champions league rights from next season

Not a driver for subscriptions the way the Premier League is, particularly since in any given season there is the possiblity (though rare) that there will be no English involvement after Christmas. The Premier League is the "banker" for both Sky and BT - everything else is a bonus.

ThisRegard

Robbo wrote: »

Still, at least the Nations Cup at the Dublin Horse Show is one of the golden events that must still be free-to-air.

Where the results of the consultation ever published, i.e. has the list changed on the basis of submissions ?

Winters wrote: »

The unions are reacting to a number of issues here. Market forces and new competition not to mention artificially increased salaries pushing up inflation in the rugby industry. They need more revenues to keep developing players and to keep their developed players.

If was always going to happen but is more urgent now with the private owners in such power.

How much influence do the unions have in the 6 Nations making the decision to put this idea out there ?

irishbucsfan

We should do whatever offers the most value to Irish rugby. I'd be firmly in the camp that FTA is a lot more valuable to us than Sky/BT would be, unless they're willing to offer a massive amount of cash.

CatFromHue

Robbo wrote: »

Still, at least the Nations Cup at the Dublin Horse Show is one of the golden events that must still be free-to-air. As long as that inspires young kids on the street to pick up a pair of jodphurs and a blazer, we can be assured of our sporting heritage.

More seriously, this is the opening shots in the re-negotiation of the rights deals. RTE are sound until 2017 and they really make a huge deal of it being one of the centrepieces of their annual sports calendar and sell the advertising accordingly. The BBC will always be hamstrung in not being able to sell ads.

I wouldn't have that much faith in RTE if they're put under pressure for the 6N.

They were never really interested in the Celtic league and only broadcast it for 2 years I think, dropping it when Sky came along.

They had the HEC when it was free to air but again lost it and highlights to it over the years.

The AI's are not shown FTA in the North.

The don't have the RWC.

If the 6N does go to a subscription channel RTE will be happy with the deferred footage if you ask me.

aimee1

irishbucsfan wrote: »

We should do whatever offers the most value to Irish rugby. I'd be firmly in the camp that FTA is a lot more valuable to us than Sky/BT would be, unless they're willing to offer a massive amount of cash.

The alcohol sponsorship issue adds to this too.

Winters

ThisRegard wrote: »

How much influence do the unions have in the 6 Nations making the decision to put this idea out there ?

The 6 unions of the 6 nations are equal shareholders in the 6 nations and receive revenue based on a mixture of shareholding, success and size.

The results of the FTA review haven't been released but I'm sure they will be before the deals are signed. If the 6n move to FTA in UK and/or Ireland it will certainly influence the negotiating.

vienne86

CatFromHue wrote: »

I wouldn't have that much faith in RTE if they're put under pressure for the 6N.

They were never really interested in the Celtic league and only broadcast it for 2 years I think, dropping it when Sky came along.

They had the HEC when it was free to air but again lost it and highlights to it over the years.

The AI's are not shown FTA in the North.

The don't have the RWC.

If the 6N does go to a subscription channel RTE will be happy with the deferred footage if you ask me.

So the 6N is all RTE have now.......they just don't seem to me to be that interested in rugby.

CatFromHue

I'm not sure if they have the money to be interested tbh.

bilston

irishbucsfan wrote: »

We should do whatever offers the most value to Irish rugby. I'd be firmly in the camp that FTA is a lot more valuable to us than Sky/BT would be, unless they're willing to offer a massive amount of cash.

I agree, the Six Nations transcends rugby and taking it off FTA would be a big big risk. In saying that if Sky or BT come in with a stupid offer it will be hard to turn down. The Beeb fork put approx €50m a year as it stands, it's hard to imagine they could justify spending much more than that.

I think Sky in particular would probably do a good job covering it, they'd probably set up a Six Nations channel like they do for the Ashes or Ryder Cup and I suppose they could also cover the U20s and Womens Six Nations in a manner that they haven't been before. But the risks are obvious. I think it would take a big big offer, but it's possible, Sky have been hurt by BT recently and this could be a way for them to get back on their game. This plus the real money spinner of the Premier League will make for interesting watching over the next couple of years.

OldRio

CatFromHue wrote: »

I'm not sure if they have the money to be interested tbh.

Surely they could have outbid TV3 for the RWC.

OldRio

OldRio wrote: »

Surely they could have outbid TV3 for the RWC.

It was probably the only thing TV3 bid for in the entire year.

CatFromHue

I don't know tbh.

Do TV3 still have the X factor, or whatever it's called now, on Saturday nights or did that move to UTV Ireland.

TG4 on a Friday night and TV3 on a Saturday night for Pro12 would go down very nicely if you ask me.

Uno my Uno.

I think RTE will be desperate to hold on to the 6N, it is the only international Sporting event they have left and is regularly their most viewed broadcast of the year, it has even topped the All Ireland Finals on occasion. Its a massive revenue generator and it fills a lot of hours, without it the Sports department will be in serious trouble, there isn't a mass audience for Club Level GAA or other sports played in Ireland and RTE can't afford anything else.

In a bigger picture the move from FTA could be seriously detrimental for Irish Rugby, the massive growth in its popularity and the linked growth in player numbers is surely strongly related to the massive push and exposure the sport has had from television over the last 15 years. If the 6N goes to Sky or BT that exposure is going to plummet and that will directly affect the sports popularity.

Neil3030

The only silver lining would be seeing Hook removed from the airwaves. Sky would do a nice job, but yeah it'd otherwise be a real shame to see it taken off FTA.

total former

Neil3030 wrote: »

The only silver lining would be seeing Hook removed from the airwaves. Sky would do a nice job, but yeah it'd otherwise be a real shame to see it taken off FTA.

He's retiring anyway.

TBH, RTE are totally peripheral to this. If BBC pony up for the UK rights, then Sky and BT will lose interest and RTE will get in by default.

Uno my Uno.

total former wrote: »

He's retiring anyway.

TBH, RTE are totally peripheral to this. If BBC pony up for the UK rights, then Sky and BT will lose interest and RTE will get in by default.

the Beeb are in a similar position regards their Sport offering but they are under even greater budgetary pressure being funded exclusively from the Licence fee, if it wasn't for the protections in the 6N Union Agreements they would have lost the rights years ago.

Neil3030

total former wrote: »

He's retiring anyway.

TBH, RTE are totally peripheral to this. If BBC pony up for the UK rights, then Sky and BT will lose interest and RTE will get in by default.

Good point. Though not peripheral from our perspective (assuming we are all Irish viewers).

Neil3030

I think it's a bit misleading to say that because the BBC can't advertise, they are under budgetary pressure:

Wikipedia wrote:

According to the BBC's 2012/13 Annual Report its total income was £5,102.3 million,[1] which can be broken down as follows:

£3,656.2 million in licence fees collected from householders;
£1,101.2 million from the BBC's Commercial Businesses - e.g., sale of shows' rights to foreign broadcasters;
£269.7 million from government grants, of which 264.7 million is from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office for the BBC World Service;
£75.2 million from other income, such as rental collections and royalties from overseas broadcasts of programming.

So they trouser north of £5bn a year - a few million more to secure the rugby is surely not a huge ask

Uno my Uno.

Neil3030 wrote: »

I think it's a bit misleading to say that because the BBC can't advertise, they are under budgetary pressure:



So they trouser north of £5bn a year - a few million more to secure the rugby is surely not a huge ask

Well I think they might see it as a massive ask, they have to justify (rightly or wrongly) money spent on acquiring rights to sporting events to the voters and Tax Payers and aren't able to justify it as a commercial decision. It is a political issue that has caused the BBC to lose several events and sports over the years, F1, Moto GP, and even Premiership highilghts at one stage. The real problem is that the offers Sky or BT might make for the 6N would likely be far in excess of what the BBC are currently paying so it might not be matter of "just" a few more million.

Winters

Mad to think all this over an event that only spans two months of the year. The advertising revenue must be greater over an event spanning a full season.

Akrasia

CatFromHue wrote: »

I wouldn't have that much faith in RTE if they're put under pressure for the 6N.

They were never really interested in the Celtic league and only broadcast it for 2 years I think, dropping it when Sky came along.

They had the HEC when it was free to air but again lost it and highlights to it over the years.

The AI's are not shown FTA in the North.

The don't have the RWC.

If the 6N does go to a subscription channel RTE will be happy with the deferred footage if you ask me.

In which case, the tv licence becomes even more of a complete waste of money

Our only hope really, is that the BBC will fight to retain the rights. If BBC don't have the interest, RTE certainly won't be able to compete against Sky/BT

Perhaps RTE needs to enter into a joint bid with the BBC and the French and Italian state broadcasters?

As part of a public interest broadcasting coalition to keep the rights for these games in the public domain and promote the sport. (Rugby is different from soccer, in that it's trying to expand to new markets and improve global interest in the sport)

Badabing

BT will go all out to retain their rugby premiership in England in a couple of years and this year to get more football rights so i doubt they will go with all guns blazing for the 6 nations. Unless they do a tie up with BBC again like with the fa cup.

bilston

Badabing wrote: »

BT will go all out to retain their rugby premiership in England in a couple of years and this year to get more football rights so i doubt they will go with all guns blazing for the 6 nations. Unless they do a tie up with BBC again like with the fa cup.

If BT retain the AP and win more football rights that will just free up more cash and create more willpower for Sky to go after the 6Ns. There is talk that they are close to securing the British Open Golf which would be a coup. I'd say the 6Ns would be something else they would love to get their hands on.

Rather Sky than BT mind.

Edit - I see today the BBC has retained Premier League highlights until 2019 in a 3 year deal worth just over £200m. They may have to come up with something similar if they are to retain the 6Ns.

irishbucsfan

Premier League highlights would be worth a lot more than 6 Nations I'd guess, but could be wrong.

George Hook

No FTA deal is what is/has killed rugby union in AUS, don't repeat their mistake.

The Lost Sheep

George Hook wrote: »

No FTA deal is what is/has killed rugby union in AUS, don't repeat their mistake.

Part of the reason but a lot more than that. Expanding game outside traditional areas hasn't happened too much in Oz...

icdg

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Premier League highlights would be worth a lot more than 6 Nations I'd guess, but could be wrong.

£160m was what was reported in 2011 for the 2014-2017 contract period (four seasons). A year later, it paid £180m for the Premier League highlights for the 2013-16 contract period (three seasons). So yes your talking about 50% more per season and the football rights are only highlights whereas the Six Nations is for live rights. (There are only 15 matches in the Six Nations though, whereas the Premier League has 380 matches over 38 weeks).

The reality is that if RTÉ lose the Six Nations that would be their rugby coverage finished. I'm not sure if they'd keep a team in place for the three autumn internationals and would probably be content to let them go to Sky. If any sporting event is worthy of protection its the Six Nations - every game is sold out reasonably in advance and its a national sporting event. That said, the mere fact of an event being on the free to air list means sporting organisations will inevitably be negotiating with one arm tied behind their back because they cannot threaten a free to air broadcaster with the possibility of being outbid by Sky.

bilston

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Premier League highlights would be worth a lot more than 6 Nations I'd guess, but could be wrong.

Yeah the current EPL highlights deal with the BBC (2014-2016) £180m for 3 years (£60m a year)

Current Six Nations deal with the BBC (2014-2017) £160m for 4 years (£40m a year)

Still given the "come and get us" plea by Feehan you'd have to think Sky and BT will be pretty aggressive in their pursuit on the 6Ns so that alone could drive the price above and beyond what the Beeb will pay.

bilston

icdg wrote: »

£160m was what was reported in 2011 for the 2014-2017 contract period (four seasons). A year later, it paid £180m for the Premier League highlights for the 2013-16 contract period (three seasons). So yes your talking about 50% more per season and the football rights are only highlights whereas the Six Nations is for live rights. (There are only 15 matches in the Six Nations though, whereas the Premier League has 380 matches over 38 weeks).

You could argue there are 45 Six Nations matches each season if you include the Womens and U20s. Small fry obviously in comparison to the real deal but a satellite Broadcaster could afford those competitions some in depth coverage in a way RTE (and they do a decent job here) and the BBC can't.

Digifriendly

CatFromHue wrote: »

The AI's are not shown FTA in the North.

Not strictly true as RTE via Freeview here in NI was 'in the clear' and not geo-blocked for Ireland's AI's.

On another note BBC have just retained Premier League highlights.

Winters

Sky have now acquired the rights to the British Open golf from BBC. I sign of things to come for the 6 Nations?

George Hook

Winters wrote: »

Sky have now acquired the rights to the British Open golf from BBC. I sign of things to come for the 6 Nations?

Yes and no. Hopefully they've run out of money haha.

But more likely...

The current television rights contract isn't up until the end of 2017. Also due in 2017 at some point is a review of the events designated as 'major importance to society' - things like the world cup that protect them as free to view events.

At the moment the 6N is only protected with 'deferred coverage' but if we gather up the power of the people and lobby to get it's status raised to 'live coverage' - then perhaps it can remain free.

I wanted to start a petition - no one seemed interested.

CatFromHue

Probably because the online petitions do nothing.

efb

Remember when sky had England's 6N home matches rights Urgh

George Hook

CatFromHue wrote: »

Probably because the online petitions do nothing.

I don't know about the republic, but the UK gov has their own petition site - I assumed you guys had something similar?

Nevertheless, doing nothing is always the worst possible thing anyone can do in these situations.

Zuffer

I may have imagined this, but did not the IRFU come out strongly against putting the 6N into the full protected category, a couple of years back?

One thing that no one has mentioned is that Sky coming in with extra money would not force the IRFU to go with the higher bid. The IRFU can always choose to accept a lower RTE bid for the good of the game.

If Sky were to make a higher bid, then IRFU would then have to weigh up the trade-off between the extra money from Sky and the extra viewers and publicity that you get from being free to air.

themont85

If anyone would be pushing this, it would likely be the 3 Celtic Nations and Italians imo. We're the unions wholly supporting our professional game and the French/English clubs are running away financially.

Although what Feehan is saying is exactly what I would expect him to, he isn't going to rule anything out. Given that the the IRFU just went with RTÉ/Sky, the signs are that 1) the IRFU aren't fully willing to sell to Pay TV and/or 2) RTÉ/FTA are willing to bid close to pay tv rates to secure international rugby.

Don't forget ITV either. FA Cup and Champions League rights are lost, they are broadcasting this year's world Cup and the likely increase in interest in the sport will have them very much in the game.

I expect the Unions are in for a massive pay day regardless, hopefully the BBC will still be in the picture. They pay a lot as is and BBC exposure is worth a lot more than any other FTA coverage. The key for the Six Nations is to be a competition that the BBC can justifiably pay good money for - the politics of the BBC demand it. At the moment with their 4 constituent countries all involved annually is just that.

total former

Zuffer wrote: »

I may have imagined this, but did not the IRFU come out strongly against putting the 6N into the full protected category, a couple of years back?

It was the Heineken Cup, but yes, they were vehemently against it.

Eamonn Ryan (then minister for communications) proposed it in the latter days of the FF-Green coalition, and pretty much all the major sporting organisations came out strongly against any additions to the list. It never went anywhere in the end.

Feehan is saying the only thing he can possibly say. If he says "we're committed to FTA coverage and won't consider any pay TV offers", then the FTA broadcasters know they can low-ball him when the bidding comes around; a BBC - ITV bidding war is very different to a BBC - ITV - Sky - BT bidding war. Even if they decide they are going to stay FTA, they need to keep the pay TV guys interested to jack up the price paid by BBC.

themont85

The Final should have been listed. The Final of the European Competition should be on FTA frankly, it is the stupidity and lack of spine by competition organisers that it isn't.

efb

Money rules

total former

themont85 wrote: »

The Final should have been listed. The Final of the European Competition should be on FTA frankly, it is the stupidity and lack of spine by competition organisers that it isn't.

Why would the competition organisers want to reduce the money they get from TV companies by making it FTA?