Is Ireland's middle class disappearing?

delthedriver · 29-01-2015 01:52AM #1

Morgan Kelly warns of new middle-class debt default!

What impact could this have on economic growth ?

PizzamanIRL · 29-01-2015 01:53AM

No!

*raises hand*

kneemos · 29-01-2015 01:55AM

If they default on their debts they'll probably have loads of money to spend.Happy days.

What have I missed here?

The Backwards Man · 29-01-2015 01:55AM

Middle class?

You mean the ones that made a fortune out of doing fcuk all this last twenty years?

Fcuk 'em

There's only two types of people in the world that are decent. People with money, and people that work for money

wretcheddomain · 29-01-2015 01:57AM

Conspiracy forum -->

kneemos · 29-01-2015 01:57AM

The lower class will bail them out again with dole cuts.

Sheep Lover · 29-01-2015 01:58AM

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Middle class?

You mean the ones that made a fortune out of doing fcuk all this last twenty years?

Fcuk 'em

There's only two types of people in the world that are decent. People with money, and people that work for money

Good on ya, a whole broad spectrum of people are basically the same bone idle, feckless so and sos but also made a bit of cash doing so, apparently

Into The Blue · 29-01-2015 02:00AM

Middle class? No such thing in a republic. We're all working class.

The Backwards Man · 29-01-2015 02:01AM

Sheep Lover wrote: »

Good on ya, a whole broad spectrum of people are basically the same bone idle, feckless so and sos but also made a bit of cash doing so, apparently

I'm not one for broad generalisations, but yeah, cnuts the lot of them:pac:

Lenin Skynard · 29-01-2015 03:43AM

There is no middle class in Ireland, never was.

Desolation Of Smug · 29-01-2015 07:19AM

Lenin Skynard wrote: »

There is no middle class in Ireland, never was.

Right. That's that so. I thought there was. Darndale, Dundrum, Dalkey. Which one isn't "middle" class?

kneemos · 29-01-2015 07:31AM

Lenin Skynard wrote: »

There is no middle class in Ireland, never was.

Middle income earners are considered middle class.Always have been.

ireland.man · 29-01-2015 08:07AM

Lenin Skynard wrote: »

There is no middle class in Ireland, never was.

If there was no middle-class we would never have had the Blueshirts.

jimgoose · 29-01-2015 09:06AM

He's talking about "high-rolling professionals" mainly. That'll make sod-all difference to the economy, those fcukers wouldn't spend Christmas. Unless it's €70,000,000 for a block of flats in Ranelagh.

Potatoeman · 29-01-2015 09:18AM

kneemos wrote: »

The lower class will bail them out again with dole cuts.

I dont think people that dont work and get free money can overly complain about the people that work and pay taxes. Dole payments increased during the good times but were unsustainable with high unemployment.

jimgoose · 29-01-2015 09:20AM

Potatoeman wrote: »

I dont think people that dont work and get free money can overly complain about the people that work and pay taxes. Dole payments increased during the good times but were unsustainable with high unemployment.

And so goes the rather peculiar situation in Ireland where anyone with a job is considered by some to be "middle class". Economy my hole! :pac:

anncoates · 29-01-2015 09:20AM

We need a Vox Pop and head count outside Donnybrook Fair and Fallon and Byrne to confirm these allegations.

realdanbreen · 29-01-2015 09:23AM

Into The Blue wrote: »

Middle class? No such thing in a republic. We're all working class.

What about the people who don't work, have never worked, and don't intend to work, are they working class?

The Corinthian · 29-01-2015 09:24AM

An Irish academic best known for correctly calling the property crash four years ago has raised fresh concerns over a potential tsunami of debt default from "high rolling" professional classes.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/ireland-business-blog-with-lisa-ocarroll/2011/aug/08/ireland-debt-crisis

Yeah... I suspect this may be a bit of a dated story.

kneemos wrote: »

If they default on their debts they'll probably have loads of money to spend.Happy days.

Glad to see that the sense of social responsibility in Ireland hasn't changed in Ireland in my absence.

jimgoose · 29-01-2015 09:26AM

The Corinthian wrote: »

http://www.theguardian.com/business/ireland-business-blog-with-lisa-ocarroll/2011/aug/08/ireland-debt-crisis

Yeah... I suspect this may be a bit of a dated story.

We're finally catching up with the Brits, though - the upper classes here also have loads of land and no money.

The Corinthian · 29-01-2015 10:06AM

jimgoose wrote: »

We're finally catching up with the Brits, though - the upper classes here also have loads of land and no money.

Irish upper classes... always makes me laugh. There's no real 'upper' class in Ireland; what there was of that largely skipped the country shortly after independence, leaving a handful of CoI holdouts who end up marrying their own cousins so as to remain religiously homogeneous.

Instead there's a nouveau riche - with the same lineage as everyone else, two or three generations away from a potato farm - but who had a cute hoor for an ancestor in the last century and a Jesuit education. As far as 'upper class' is concerned, from an international perspective, it's less embarrassing to just call them upper middle class.

conorhal · 29-01-2015 10:06AM

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Middle class?

You mean the ones that made a fortune out of doing fcuk all this last twenty years?

Fcuk 'em

There's only two types of people in the world that are decent. People with money, and people that work for money

Where the living hell do you imagine middle class people get their money, do you imagine our butlers go out back and shake a magic money tree or something?

jimgoose · 29-01-2015 10:09AM

conorhal wrote: »

Where the living hell do you imagine middle class people get their money, do you imagine our butlers go out back and shake a magic money tree or something?

Hyeeass. You mean you don't actually have a money-tree? Like OMG how Rothfornhom!! :eek:

Electric Sheep · 29-01-2015 10:12AM

realdanbreen wrote: »

What about the people who don't work, have never worked, and don't intend to work, are they working class?

No, they are the "Entitled" class.

ireland.man · 29-01-2015 10:13AM

conorhal wrote: »

Where the living hell do you imagine middle class people get their money, do you imagine our butlers go out back and shake a magic money tree or something?

Class and wealth is very often inherited in Ireland. Like it or not, the dimmest members of the middle-classes will have more advantages in life than the cleverest children from economically deprived areas.

The Corinthian · 29-01-2015 10:30AM

ireland.man wrote: »

Class and wealth is very often inherited in Ireland. Like it or not, the dimmest members of the middle-classes will have more advantages in life than the cleverest children from economically deprived areas.

Not really that simple.

To begin with, middle class is a wide term in Ireland. Someone who grew up in Ailesbury road, in a Georgian house is middle class. So is someone who grew up in Artane in a semi-D. Then inherited wealth may give an advantage, but this advantage pales in comparison to nepotism in Ireland, which often is independent of wealth and more closely connected to the Irish culture of cronyism.

Another factor is sub-culture; reverse snobbery is such in some quarters that it can act as a disincentive for many to go into higher education as any kind of academic snobbery acts to encourage others to to do so. Ireland is the only country where I've ever heard the expression "did you swallow a dictionary" as some form of insult.

So I'd classify inherited wealth less important than many other factors where it comes to 'advantage' in Ireland.

valoren · 29-01-2015 10:33AM

An almost 4 year old article?

Srsly?

Lovely Bloke · 29-01-2015 10:35AM

Disappearing - nope, just yesterday I upgraded my car from an Astra to an Avensis, got a raise in the last six months and planning on a couple of foreign holidays this year.

Mortgage is grand, and should be paid off in ten years or so

ireland.man · 29-01-2015 10:38AM

The Corinthian wrote: »

Not really that simple.

To begin with, middle class is a wide term in Ireland. Someone who grew up in Ailesbury road, in a Georgian house is middle class. So is someone who grew up in Artane in a semi-D. Then inherited wealth may give an advantage, but this advantage pales in comparison to nepotism in Ireland, which often is independent of wealth and more closely connected to the Irish culture of cronyism.

Another factor is sub-culture; reverse snobbery is such in some quarters that it can act as a disincentive for many to go into higher education as any kind of academic snobbery acts to encourage others to to do so. Ireland is the only country where I've ever heard the expression "did you swallow a dictionary" as some form of insult.

So I'd classify inherited wealth less important than many other factors where it comes to 'advantage' in Ireland.

I was being a bit reductionist so yeah, I'd agree with your sentiments. I think people need to be a little more self-aware regarding their income, lifestyle and class. We need to recognise all the factors that play into people being on the dole long-term, those working multiple jobs to support their family, and those who most would consider wealthy. It might make people more empathetic if they knew that it takes far more than talent and hard work to join the upper middle class in this country.

Chemical Byrne · 29-01-2015 10:41AM

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Middle class?

You mean the ones that made a fortune out of doing fcuk all this last twenty years?

Fcuk 'em

There's only two types of people in the world that are decent. People with money, and people that work for money

What a crock of it!

The middle class bend over backwards working their bollocks off to pay though the nose for everything, education, housing the whole lot, and get ZERO assistance from the state. They are the ones who really have lost the most over the last 7 years.

In actual fact it is the "working" classes who've come out with little to no loss. Can't/won't work, no bother! Dole, housing, fags, cheap beer, outings to the bookies etc all in limitless lifetime supply courtesy of the the taxes paid through the noses of the middle class.

ireland.man · 29-01-2015 10:45AM

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

What a crock of it!

The middle class bend over backwards working their bollocks off to pay though the nose for everything, education, housing the whole lot, and get ZERO assistance from the state. They are the ones who really have lost the most over the last 7 years.

In actual fact it is the "working" classes who've come out with little to no loss. Can't/won't work, no bother! Dole, housing, fags, cheap beer, outings to the bookies etc all in limitless lifetime supply courtesy of the the taxes paid through the noses of the middle class.

Who would you class as working class?

Is Ireland's middle class disappearing?

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