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How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

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Comments

  • #692
    Daith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,259 ✭✭✭Daith


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    But the no sides terrible weaknesses are the "holy joes / marys" out there. You know full well how a discussion regarding marriage equality will go with them and thats not going to benefit the no side either.

    It's the same issue you have though. It's all about children and they don't want to see same sex couples raising children or allowed to marry?


  • #693
    Daith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,259 ✭✭✭Daith


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    Have already been called names twice on thread it's par for the course at this stage.

    I'm referring to your arguments. You know gay people can adopt. You know gay couples will be allowed to adopt.

    Showing issues with the logic of your argument isn't calling you names though.


  • #694
    Ctrl Alt Delete
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    eviltwin wrote: »
    I don't think you're a homophobe. I am surprised that you have so many gay friends and even more surprised you volunteer for Pride. I would find it hard to be friends with someone who judged my suitability as a parent on my sexual preferences. I'm just struggling to understand how you can only focus on that one part and ignore everything else.

    I might be a rare example I dont know LOL. But in my eyes I see gay people as no different (I dont even see the need of pride per se). Volunteered couple of times actually for Pride (last one I volunteered at was when some numptys cuffed themselves to a bus or two).

    But it still doesn't change my personally ingrained opinion about my thoughts / beliefs on the institutes of marriage and children.

    But just like I respect gays , you have to show equal respect to my opinion (regardless of whether you think its right or wrong).


  • #695
    COYVB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,660 ✭✭✭COYVB


    What exactly are the issues "with regard to the adoption of children" that the poster has? has anyone asked?


  • #696
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

    Call it trolling , ignorant, call it whatever you want, my upbringing in terms of family values, teachings and yes even religious views means I fundamently disagree with same sex marriage according to my personal values.

    I don't understand why your personal values should be allowed to affect thousands of people. Or rather, why you're allowing your personal values to affect thousands of people.


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  • #697
    Daith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,259 ✭✭✭Daith


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    But just like I respect gays , you have to show equal respect to my opinion (regardless of whether you think its right or wrong).

    You have the right to an opinion. You don't have any right for people to respect your opinion.


  • #698
    Ctrl Alt Delete
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    Daith wrote: »
    It's the same issue you have though. It's all about children and they don't want to see same sex couples raising children or allowed to marry?

    Yes definitely the same issues but I think we can all agree their approach to the argument would be different to mine.


  • #699
    AtomicHorror
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,888 ✭✭✭AtomicHorror


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    But heres the thing alot of gay people don't understand that I can empathise, understand gay rights issues, not be afraid of gays (even if some of them can be OTT in your face annoying), form professional and friendly relationships and so on.

    Do you hear yourself? Replace gay with black, see how that sounds in your head.


  • #700
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    COYVB wrote: »
    What exactly are the issues "with regard to the adoption of children" that the poster has? has anyone asked?

    No, because it's not relevant. Adoption can already happen and will be able to happen as a unit before the referendum. The referendum is nothing to do with adoption and will have no baring on whether gay couples can adopt.


  • #701
    COYVB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,660 ✭✭✭COYVB


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    Call it trolling , ignorant, call it whatever you want, my upbringing in terms of family values, teachings and yes even religious views means I fundamently disagree with same sex marriage according to my personal values.

    Good thing nobody is forcing you to marry a man then


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  • #702
    Daith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,259 ✭✭✭Daith


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    Yes definitely the same issues but I think we can all agree their approach to the argument would be different to mine.

    No, not really which is why I'm getting confused.

    All their arguments ignore that gay people can adopt already and boils down to "it's my opinion and that's it".


  • #703
    Ctrl Alt Delete
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    Daith wrote: »
    You have the right to an opinion. You don't have any right for people to respect your opinion.

    Well then do not ask me to respect considering marriage equality for homosexuals.


  • #704
    COYVB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,660 ✭✭✭COYVB


    sup_dude wrote: »
    No, because it's not relevant. Adoption can already happen and will be able to happen as a unit before the referendum. The referendum is nothing to do with adoption and will have no baring on whether gay couples can adopt.

    It's very relevant though, because if he specifies what exactly his problem is then it can be discussed. Not asking, and not discussing, means no furthering of anyone's understanding of things - which is never good


  • #705
    AtomicHorror
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,888 ✭✭✭AtomicHorror


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    But just like I respect gays , you have to show equal respect to my opinion (regardless of whether you think its right or wrong).

    How noble of you to respect human beings. Opinions are unworthy of respect. They are to be attacked, forever, so that only the valid stands. Get used to that, because we're not going to stop.


  • #706
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    I might be a rare example I dont know LOL. But in my eyes I see gay people as no different (I dont even see the need of pride per se). Volunteered couple of times actually for Pride (last one I volunteered at was when some numptys cuffed themselves to a bus or two).

    But it still doesn't change my personally ingrained opinion about my thoughts / beliefs on the institutes of marriage and children.

    But just like I respect gays , you have to show equal respect to my opinion (regardless of whether you think its right or wrong).

    You obviously do see gay people as different. Going back to your gay friends, they aren't just some abstract group, you actually know these people, you must acknowledge each and every one of them is an individual with their own strengths and weaknesses independent of their sexuality. I don't see how then you can look beyond that and only focus on one part of their life. It just seems extremely judgemental and unfair.


  • #707
    floggg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,821 ✭✭✭floggg


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    I'm not playing any victim



    I've read plenty of figures reports mainly from the US in particular and I will not only agree with you but I will say that in some cases the children have excelled and like I said earlier plenty of straight couples people do not value the family unit (regardless of its shape) either.

    But it does not change my fundamental opinion

    Then what, if anything, is the reason for your objection?

    If there is no principled reason for your objection, other it's what you believe, then its hard to really contest accusations of prejudice.

    How else could you describe opposing rights for one group simply because you personally don't think they should have them?

    If I've missed something in your position, or mis-charachterising it by all means correct me?

    (as you should see from my above posts, that's not a knee jerk conclusion either but it's the only conclusion I can come to having read your posts).


  • #708
    Daith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,259 ✭✭✭Daith


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    Well then do not ask me to respect considering marriage equality for homosexuals.

    I never did.

    You have the right to an opinion and people have the right to form an opinion of your opinion. No one has to respect anything.


  • #709
    Ctrl Alt Delete
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    Daith wrote: »
    So you don't support equality for gay people. Can you not just say that?

    You just seem to want people to call you whatever. Not sure I get the point of that.

    No because thats not true.

    For a practical and very simple example, I support the recognition of rights of a long term partner in hospitals etc of which there has been many an issue regarding same sex couples.

    I support equality for gays on pretty much everything but my personal line where that support stops is marriage and children.


  • #710
    TheBeardedLady
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,086 ✭✭✭TheBeardedLady


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    I would disagree with trying to engage with people like me.

    What are people like you?

    Could you be persuaded to vote yes, do you think? Is there any way at all you'd change your mind? If not, then I wouldn't waste my time trying to wear you down as it's pointless exercise just as it would be totally futile for you to try and convince me to vote no. I'm all for engaging in debate here on Boards but in real life, we have so little time and the focus should be on those who are not so sure of their decision.


  • #711
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    COYVB wrote: »
    It's very relevant though, because if he specifies what exactly his problem is then it can be discussed. Not asking, and not discussing, means no furthering of anyone's understanding of things - which is never good

    It doesn't need to be discussed. All the poster needs to know is that, whether he wants it to happen or not, adoption will happen. This is not up for debate, it is not up for referendum. This is solely about SSM and if the poster opposes SSM due to something that has nothing to do with it, the only thing we need to do is to inform them that their reason has nothing to do with the referendum. Discussing the reason is off topic because it's not relevant to the referendum or this thread.


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  • #712
    Ctrl Alt Delete
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    Daith wrote: »
    I never did.

    You have the right to an opinion and people have the right to form an opinion of your opinion. No one has to respect anything.

    I think you may have missed the point I was making


  • #713
    COYVB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,660 ✭✭✭COYVB


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    my personal line where that support stops is marriage and children.

    Why?


  • #714
    COYVB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,660 ✭✭✭COYVB


    sup_dude wrote: »
    It doesn't need to be discussed. All the poster needs to know is that, whether he wants it to happen or not, adoption will happen. This is not up for debate, it is not up for referendum. This is solely about SSM and if the poster opposes SSM due to something that has nothing to do with it, the only thing we need to do is to inform them that their reason has nothing to do with the referendum. Discussing the reason is off topic because it's not relevant to the referendum or this thread.

    It's hugely relevant if someone is saying they're voting no in the referendum, in a thread about the referendum


  • #715
    Tasden
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,166 ✭✭✭Tasden


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    No because thats not true.

    For a practical and very simple example, I support the recognition of rights of a long term partner in hospitals etc of which there has been many an issue regarding same sex couples.

    I support equality for gays on pretty much everything but my personal line where that support stops is marriage and children.

    I'll ask again since you didn't answer last time I asked. If you take children out of the equation, why is it you're opposed to two men marrying and not a man and woman? Not in relation to children, just the two men marrying each other? Why do you not support that?


  • #716
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    COYVB wrote: »
    It's hugely relevant if someone is saying they're voting no in the referendum, in a thread about the referendum

    It's enough to say it's not relevant. Would we discuss whether all clouds should be painted blue because someone is using that as a reason to vote no? We wouldn't because whether clouds are blue or not does not have any baring on what the referendum is trying to achieve. All that needs to be done is point out that painting clouds blue doesn't affect a referendum on SSM. Similarly, adoption doesn't have affect a referendum on SSM


  • #717
    Ctrl Alt Delete
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    AtomicHorror wrote: »
    Do you hear yourself? Replace gay with black, see how that sounds in your head.

    And again comments like that will win no arguments or referendums either.

    Trying to compare me to a racist has no bearing on this discussion and respectfully trying to compare anyone who offers similar views will only further harden their stance to the no side (if even possible)


  • #718
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    Firstly, can I just say I appreciate logical / thought out responses as opposed to responses like spikes.

    You are 100% right in your rationale two is better than 1 and a long term committed relationship is better (and I will also concede that straight couples do not value long term either).

    Call it trolling , ignorant, call it whatever you want, my upbringing in terms of family values, teachings and yes even religious views means I fundamently disagree with same sex marriage according to my personal values.

    That doesn't mean I don't support gay issues / equality on a myriad of other things because I do. But for me I personally draw the line at the institute of children and marriage.

    And frankly the pro side will have to engage with people like me with no fully rational reason en masse to win this referendum.

    What personal views or values and how do they prevent you from supporting the equality of your friends and the equal protection under the law of their children? You have mentioned having plenty but so far the only reason you have offered is children. This reason has been thoroughly debunked however by numerous posters. What are the remaining reason you believe that you deserve more rights than your fellow citizens who happen to be gay?


  • #719
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    And again comments like that will win no arguments or referendums either.

    Trying to compare me to a racist has no bearing on this discussion and respectfully trying to compare anyone who offers similar views will only further harden their stance to the no side (if even possible)


    He never said you were a racist. However, if you put the word black instead of gay and even you think it makes you sound like a racist, how do you think having the word gay there sounds?


  • #720
    Ctrl Alt Delete
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    COYVB wrote: »
    Good thing nobody is forcing you to marry a man then

    I fail to see the point of this post? Firstly, in Ireland no one can be "forced" to marry and secondly as I'm obviously heterosexual bringing a man into it is even more pointless.


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  • #721
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    No because thats not true.

    For a practical and very simple example, I support the recognition of rights of a long term partner in hospitals etc of which there has been many an issue regarding same sex couples.

    I support equality for gays on pretty much everything but my personal line where that support stops is marriage and children.

    Do you really believe the children of Ireland will be worse off if this passes?


This discussion has been closed.
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