How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

Ctrl Alt Delete

Daith wrote: »

Any reason why you're voting No to equal rights for homosexual couples?

Plenty, to be honest in principle I have no problems with equal rights for gay couples and indeed have close friends who are struggling with many aspects of equality after herself and herself got married up North so I do understand the various complexities gay couples have in terms of recognition of many different things with the State.

But heres the thing, as I have many close gay friends of both sexes I do not agree with the doors and issues that it will open up in the future particularly with regard to adoption of children.

And yes I know obviously its possible for 2 women to have a child (as my friends above have done) but thats biological advantage to women same sex couples.

jobbridge4life

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

Plenty, to be honest in principle I have no problems with equal rights for gay couples and indeed have close friends who are struggling with many aspects of equality after herself and herself got married up North.

But heres the thing, as I have many close gay friends of both sexes I do not agree with the doors and issues that it will open up in the future particularly with regard to adoption of children.

And yes I know obviously its possible for 2 women to have a child (as my friends above have done) but thats biological advantage to women same sex couples.

Gay people can already adopt. Gay couples will be able to adopt together before the referendum.

spikeS

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

Plenty, to be honest in principle I have no problems with equal rights for gay couples and indeed have close friends who are struggling with many aspects of equality after herself and herself got married up North so I do understand the various complexities gay couples have in terms of recognition of many different things with the state.

But heres the thing, as I have many close gay friends of both sexes I do not agree with the doors and issues that it will open up in the future particularly with regard to adoption of children.

And yes I know obviously its possible for 2 women to have a child (as my friends above have done) but thats biological advantage to women same sex couples.

Gay men can still adopt you voting no won't change that, homophobes only use kids cause they don't want to say they are homophobic

Ctrl Alt Delete

jobbridge4life wrote: »

Gay people can already adopt. Gay couples will be able to adopt together before the referendum.

As of now can they jointly adopt a child under the Civil Partnership Act 2010 ??

eviltwin

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

Plenty, to be honest in principle I have no problems with equal rights for gay couples and indeed have close friends who are struggling with many aspects of equality after herself and herself got married up North so I do understand the various complexities gay couples have in terms of recognition of many different things with the State.

But heres the thing, as I have many close gay friends of both sexes I do not agree with the doors and issues that it will open up in the future particularly with regard to adoption of children.

And yes I know obviously its possible for 2 women to have a child (as my friends above have done) but thats biological advantage to women same sex couples.

How is it that all these No voters have gay friends? :rolleyes:

eviltwin

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

As of now can they jointly adopt a child under the Civil Partnership Act 2010 ??

Not yet but that is changing in advance of the referendum to allow couples to jointly adopt.

Ctrl Alt Delete

spikeS wrote: »

Gay men can still adopt you voting no won't change that, homophobes only use kids cause they don't want to say they are homophobic

And idiots will only call people like me homophobes when I posted a detailed post just prior to yours ;););)

Daith

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

But heres the thing, as I have many close gay friends of both sexes I do not agree with the doors and issues that it will open up in the future particularly with regard to adoption of children.

Voting no won't stop gay people adopting.

There's a problem in your logic here.

AtomicHorror

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

And yes I know obviously its possible for 2 women to have a child (as my friends above have done) but thats biological advantage to women same sex couples.

What does this have to do with the marriage referendum?? Adoption by homosexual couples is coming either way.

Daith

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

And idiots will only call people like me homophobes when I posted a detailed post just prior to yours ;););)

I wouldn't call you a homophobe. Misinformed yes.

jobbridge4life

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

As of now can they jointly adopt a child under the Civil Partnership Act 2010 ??

No they cannot.

Regardless the argument in your post is nullified. Can you illustrate other reasons you want to vote to maintain the second class status of your friends and other LGB people?

Ctrl Alt Delete

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

As of now can they jointly adopt a child under the Civil Partnership Act 2010 ??

Well that is exactly the point.

Firstly as has been pointed out to you this referendum has nothing to do with adoption and gay adoption exists already - so your choice to vote "no" for this reason is simply a misinformed decision.

However let us imagine for a moment that you are correct and this referendum WAS relevant to this. What exists now is that gay people can adopt singly. That is to say - when the people evaluating the placement of a child evaluate such a case - they are doing it on incomplete information. They only have half the story.

I do not know about you - but that worries me. I want to think that the people evaluating the placement of a child for adoption have as much information to base their evaluation on as they can.

So given adoption by gay singles ALREADY exists - is it not better that such people be married and therefore the adoption agency will have the full data set upon which to base their evaluation?

This is before we get into the simple fact that you and others on the thread have failed to put together an argument as to what is wrong with gay couples adopting in the first place - even if it were relevant to this referndum - which as you have been told a few times already: It is not.

Ctrl Alt Delete

eviltwin wrote: »

How is it that all these No voters have gay friends? :rolleyes:

Lets see shall I count them out LOL 2 gay cousins, 1 gay female couple, no gay male couples, i employ 4 openly gay males and do business with at least another 2 gay males weekly but I suspect that number to be 4 or 5 :P:P:P:P

I was even a steward in Gay Pride parade 2 years ago

But heres the thing alot of gay people don't understand that I can empathise, understand gay rights issues, not be afraid of gays (even if some of them can be OTT in your face annoying), form professional and friendly relationships and so on.

All of that doesn't mean that I have to conform the the gay agenda way of thinking. I can form my own opinion and agree with certain aspects and disagree with other aspects based on my upbringing and sexual orientation such is my right

And frankly any person who labels another person a homophobe for fully or partially disagreeing with their opinion does their argument more damage than good and posters like spikes is exactly the kind of person who will lose this referendum for you guys.

Daith

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

And frankly any person who labels another person a homophobe for fully or partially disagreeing with their opinion does their argument more damage than good.

You see everyone has an opinion. It doesn't mean their opinion is correct.

You brought up the adoption piece. The referendum has nothing to do with it

Don't be so quick to place yourself as the victim if your arguments aren't any good.

shruikan2553

Gay people can have children and can raise them with their same sex partner. There are many doing it right now. The only change will be that it will be possible for the other partner to be a legal guardian of the child.

If you are voting know because you are against gay people adopting you are either blind or misinformed. Adoption in Ireland isn't that common and gay people can already adopt a child.

floggg

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

Plenty, to be honest in principle I have no problems with equal rights for gay couples and indeed have close friends who are struggling with many aspects of equality after herself and herself got married up North so I do understand the various complexities gay couples have in terms of recognition of many different things with the State.

But heres the thing, as I have many close gay friends of both sexes I do not agree with the doors and issues that it will open up in the future particularly with regard to adoption of children.

And yes I know obviously its possible for 2 women to have a child (as my friends above have done) but thats biological advantage to women same sex couples.

As has been said, gay people can currently adopt but are assessed as a single person.

The ability to adopt will be extended to gay couples shortly, and regardless of the outcome of the referendum.

There are also many children being raised by gay couples already - though their rights are severely prejudiced by the lack of full recognition of their parents relationship, as they only have a relationship in law with one of them.

Finally, it is now well settled that children raised by gay couples fare just as well children raised by heterosexual couples, and no disadvantage for children raised by gay couples has been identified.

We can provide links to those studies to back it up if you wish.

Any of that change your mind. If not, what is your specific concerns.

To Elland Back

spikeS wrote: »

Looking at boards we have the under 40's locked, everyone is voting yes other then the one or two trolls, we care enough and will vastly outnumber the old folks on the day.

Just an observation, but I can see many No voters deciding not to register on this poll or comment in the thread

TheBeardedLady

I get nervous when people announce a victory for the yes vote already. It ain't over until the fat lady sings 'n' all da and I don't believe we can be so cocky. We should really be hammering home to friends and family how important it is to register and to vote.

I wouldn't be so sure it's simply a case of young voters voting yes and older voters voting no; look at the results so far and remember that most Boards posters would be under 50 (under 40, even). My stepmother is so Catholic she joined a convent briefly in her early 20s but she's voting yes (as is my dad in his early 70s). We CAN'T get complacent.

The point was made before that it's probably a waste of time trying to change the minds of definite no voters and instead we should be focusing on those who don't know, who wouldn't normally vote but would vote yes in theory and ensure the already existing yes voters actually get out on the day and vote and not assume it's a done deal.

spikeS

To Elland Back wrote: »

Just an observation, but I can see many No voters deciding not to register on this poll or comment in the thread

The poll is private I can understand if they did not want to post to show they are homophobic but they can vote no in the poll above and no one would know. It's just that most youth are just not homophobic anymore.

Ctrl Alt Delete

Deleted User wrote: »

So given adoption by gay singles ALREADY exists - is it not better that such people be married and therefore the adoption agency will have the full data set upon which to base their evaluation?

This is before we get into the simple fact that you and others on the thread have failed to put together an argument as to what is wrong with gay couples adopting in the first place - even if it were relevant to this referndum - which as you have been told a few times already: It is not.

Firstly, can I just say I appreciate logical / thought out responses as opposed to responses like spikes.

You are 100% right in your rationale two is better than 1 and a long term committed relationship is better (and I will also concede that straight couples do not value long term either).

Call it trolling , ignorant, call it whatever you want, my upbringing in terms of family values, teachings and yes even religious views means I fundamently disagree with same sex marriage according to my personal values.

That doesn't mean I don't support gay issues / equality on a myriad of other things because I do. But for me I personally draw the line at the institute of children and marriage.

And frankly the pro side will have to engage with people like me with no fully rational reason en masse to win this referendum.

Daith

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

That doesn't mean I don't support gay issues / equality on a myriad of other things because I do. But for me I personally draw the line at the institute of children and marriage.

So you don't support equality for gay people. Can you not just say that?

You just seem to want people to call you whatever. Not sure I get the point of that.

Ctrl Alt Delete

Daith wrote: »

Don't be so quick to place yourself as the victim if your arguments aren't any good.

I'm not playing any victim

floggg wrote: »

Finally, it is now well settled that children raised by gay couples fare just as well children raised by heterosexual couples, and no disadvantage for children raised by gay couples has been identified.

We can provide links to those studies to back it up if you wish.

I've read plenty of figures reports mainly from the US in particular and I will not only agree with you but I will say that in some cases the children have excelled and like I said earlier plenty of straight couples people do not value the family unit (regardless of its shape) either.

But it does not change my fundamental opinion

eviltwin

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

Lets see shall I count them out LOL 2 gay cousins, 1 gay female couple, no gay male couples, i employ 4 openly gay males and do business with at least another 2 gay males weekly but I suspect that number to be 4 or 5 :P:P:P:P

I was even a steward in Gay Pride parade 2 years ago

But heres the thing alot of gay people don't understand that I can empathise, understand gay rights issues, not be afraid of gays (even if some of them can be OTT in your face annoying), form professional and friendly relationships and so on.

All of that doesn't mean that I have to conform the the gay agenda way of thinking. I can form my own opinion and agree with certain aspects and disagree with other aspects based on my upbringing and sexual orientation such is my right

And frankly any person who labels another person a homophobe for fully or partially disagreeing with their opinion does their argument more damage than good and posters like spikes is exactly the kind of person who will lose this referendum for you guys.

I don't think you're a homophobe. I am surprised that you have so many gay friends and even more surprised you volunteer for Pride. I would find it hard to be friends with someone who judged my suitability as a parent on my sexual preferences. I'm just struggling to understand how you can only focus on that one part and ignore everything else.

floggg

Daith wrote: »

So you don't support equality for gay people. Can you not just say that?

You just seem to want people to call you whatever. Not sure I get the point of that.

I don't agree with his stance, but he has respectfully set it out and engaged in it (to a limited extent) without showing any animus or disrespect.


Show him the same respect. Badgering him and taking pot shots isn't going to get you anywhere. I

Daith

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

I'm not playing any victim

You're expecting people to call you names for your opinion.

You're opinions lack any logic though.

Daith

floggg wrote: »

Show him the same respect. Badgering him and taking pot shots isn't going to get you anywhere. I

Honestly, I don't see how any person can say they support equality for gay people and in the same sentence say they don't.

Sorry.

I'm not expecting to get anywhere either.

Ctrl Alt Delete

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

The point was made before that it's probably a waste of time trying to change the minds of definite no voters and instead we should be focusing on those who don't know, who wouldn't normally vote but would vote yes in theory and ensure the already existing yes voters actually get out on the day and vote and not assume it's a done deal.

I would disagree with trying to engage with people like me.

I would like to think that compared to some people out there who will be voting no that I am on the calmer , discussing side.

But the no sides terrible weaknesses are the "holy joes / marys" out there. You know full well how a discussion regarding marriage equality will go with them and thats not going to benefit the no side either.

Annasopra

reprise wrote: »

Hi floggg,

I'm straight. Unlike Gerry Adams, I claim no expertise in homosexuality.

At marriage, I am a legend.

Thats nice.

Tell me. When did you choose to be straight?

Tasden

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

But it does not change my fundamental opinion

But can you explain what exactly is your fundamental opinion? Like why is it ok for a man and woman to marry and not two men? Taking children out of the equation. Just a simple answer as to why one is ok and one isn't in your opinion. Is it due to religious teachings or that you see one as more "normal" because its what you grew up with or....?

Ctrl Alt Delete

Daith wrote: »

You're expecting people to call you names for your opinion.

You're opinions lack any logic though.

Have already been called names twice on thread it's par for the course at this stage.