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How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

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  • #602
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Ozymandius2011 wrote: »
    Some people have the daft idea that if a child is raised by a gay couple they will grow up to become gay. But as Gerry Adams correctly pointed out a few days ago "You don't become gay - You are born gay".

    I simply point out he existance of homosexuality in itself kinda disputs that argument.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • #603
    MrPudding
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    lazybones32 wrote: »
    Of course a loving environment is the ideal and I'm not criticising the poster for taking steps to ensure the welfare of his family. My criticism was for saying that male and female input is the same - which it is not. Saying that his kids would've turned out fine if they were raised by two men is an assumption with nothing to back it up. His children would be different to what they are now - for better or worse.
    But it isn't really an assumption, and there is plenty to back it up...

    lazybones32 wrote: »
    I've read some of them before...well, skim-read. My particular fav was an Australian one which concluded that children do better with 2 Mothers ( lesbian couple) but I couldn't find whether the children were adopted, their ages or their gender.
    With the greatest respect, should you not, perhaps, try to educate yourself on the subject rather than declaring that there is no evidence?
    lazybones32 wrote: »
    What Right is specifically denied? I've yet to hear of anyone being denied a Social Service in the Republic because of their sexuality, have you? The sole purpose you provide is somewhat different from the reasons stated by marriageequality.ie but I expect different tunes to be played...
    The right to be married. Not sure how you missed that. I guess with all the misinformation that is being thrown around one might be forgiven for not realising that the one and only thing this referendum is about is allowing same sex couples equal access to civil marriage. Nothing more, nothing less.
    reprise wrote: »
    I'm interested. What have you got?

    Ha. You got me. I knew LB would not ask, he has no interest in reading anything that does not confirm his viewpoint. Now I have to go and dig the references out.

    This should get you started. This is a pretty good summary of the arguments deployed against ssm, and why they are lacking, as well as plenty of peer reviewed research, and I am sure oldrnwiser won't mind me using his post as a shortcut. The Lamb book is very good, and relevant to this exact subject.

    In addition, you could look at the Californian Proposition 8 cases. In those cases you will find a very thorough dismantling of the anti-ssm arguments and the 'research' used to try to support them. Interestingly, if you look at the argument people like the Iona crowd use, and the research they reference, it has all been rebutted and destroyed in these and other case. They know this, yet they still trot it out knowing, presumably, that most people won't know it has been debunked. Very dishonest.

    MrP


  • #604
    reprise
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭reprise


    Ozymandius2011 wrote: »
    Some people have the daft idea that if a child is raised by a gay couple they will grow up to become gay. But as Gerry Adams correctly pointed out a few days ago "You don't become gay - You are born gay".

    I can almost imagine him pulling a pint as he says it.

    What is it about the lunatic left that makes them such experts on homosexuality?


  • #605
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    reprise wrote: »
    I can almost imagine him pulling a pint as he says it.

    What is it about the lunatic left that makes them such experts on homosexuality?

    Probably from the same place as the right.


  • #606
    MrPudding
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    reprise wrote: »
    I can almost imagine him pulling a pint as he says it.

    What is it about the lunatic left that makes them such experts on homosexuality?
    One need not be a lunatic or left wing to have some knowledge on a subject. Additionally, one does not need to be an expert to know the prevailing scientific thinking on a particular subject, just willing to read.

    MrP


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  • #607
    reprise
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭reprise


    MrPudding wrote: »
    One need not be a lunatic or left wing to have some knowledge on a subject. Additionally, one does not need to be an expert to know the prevailing scientific thinking on a particular subject, just willing to read.

    MrP

    Is what he said right?


  • #608
    reprise
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭reprise


    shruikan2553 wrote: »
    Probably from the same place as the right.

    The right don't drag out of every politically correct bandwagon.


  • #609
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    reprise wrote: »
    The right don't drag out of every politically correct bandwagon.

    The anti PC bandwagon tends to arrive before the PC bandwagon gets loaded up.

    Not really sure what PC has to do with it though.


  • #610
    reprise
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭reprise


    shruikan2553 wrote: »
    The anti PC bandwagon tends to arrive before the PC bandwagon gets loaded up.

    How dya figure that one out?


  • #611
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    reprise wrote: »
    How dya figure that one out?

    Well you did say
    The right don't drag out of every politically correct bandwagon.

    Because for some reason it is relevant


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  • #612
    darced
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,056 ✭✭✭darced


    This post has been deleted.


  • #613
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    reprise wrote: »
    Is what he said right?

    Yeah I think so. I knew I fancied boys when I was eight or nine. I didn't decide to fancy boys, I just did. I can look at beautiful, sexy women now and while acknowledging how stunning they are they don't sexually excite me. A good looking man though, now that's a whole other story.

    Some people believe who you fancy is a matter of choice. Well I'd challenge them to try and change their sexuality for a day or two and see how easy it is.


  • #614
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    darced wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Yeah cause that's clearly the natural follow on from SSM isn't it?


  • #615
    reprise
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭reprise


    shruikan2553 wrote: »
    Well you did say



    Because for some reason it is relevant

    :confused:


  • #616
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,160 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    darced wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    I feel stupider for reading this post.


  • #617
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    darced wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Dunno wheer to start correcting this one.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • #618
    aloyisious
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,000 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    reprise wrote: »
    Is what he said right?

    The camera never lies.......


  • #619
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,079 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    Haven't read the thread so forgive me if i repeat stuff.

    Personally, for me, this has nothing to do with what God you believe you in, this is a civil rights issue and should be treated as such.

    I'm all for civil rights regardless of if I pray or not.


  • #620
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    darced wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.


    Do us a favour and link to those discussions, if you'd be as good.


  • #621
    TheBeardedLady
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,086 ✭✭✭TheBeardedLady


    It's PC to believe, based on science and all evidence thus far, that a child is born gay. I see.


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  • #622
    reprise
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭reprise


    TheBeardedLady wrote: »
    It's PC to believe, based on science and all evidence thus far, that a child is born gay. I see.

    Since when?


  • #623
    mudda3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10 ✭mudda3


    I would vote yes


  • #624
    haveringchick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,380 ✭✭✭haveringchick


    TheBeardedLady wrote: »
    It's PC to believe, based on science and all evidence thus far, that a child is born gay. I see.

    It's not PC. Or maybe it is. Do you believe that people make a choice to be gay then? Why on earth would anyone be bothered to do that then? What advantages in life does being gay give anyone?


  • #625
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,344 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    lazybones32 wrote: »
    I think you may need to reread what was actually written

    After you - because it was you not me that misrepresented what the other person wrote.
    lazybones32 wrote: »
    ..a suitable replacement was found and the user doesn't actually say whether it was male or female but I think it was female.

    EXACTLY! Now you are getting it. The user did not mention the sex of the replacement parent because the point was - clearly - that the sex of the other parent simply was irrelevant. My guess is that the user specifically decided not to mention it to make that exact point.
    lazybones32 wrote: »
    Saying that a child would be the same had they been raised by 2 men is an outrageous statement that is impossible to prove but somehow isn't open for criticism in this topic?

    Of course it is open to critique. The problem is you are not coherently doing so. You are simply throwing declarations around like it is "outrageous". But you are not explaining how and/or why. So what actually is your point?
    lazybones32 wrote: »
    Would you be the man you are now, if Mom or Dad was removed from influencing you? If Dad had a boyfriend instead of Mom, do you think you'd be the same...can you see the gist?

    Nope not seeing your gist at all. If you replaced ANY parent with ANY parent you will likely change the resulting person. The sex is irrelevant. If you replaced either or both of my parents with other people, same sex, opposite sex, or whatever - I would likely be a different person today.

    You are utterly failing to demonstrate how sex comes into this at all. Maybe delve deeper into biology and psychology at your own discretion.
    lazybones32 wrote: »
    My criticism was for saying that male and female input is the same - which it is not.

    My criticism is that you are not saying what these differences are - or how they are relevant to the upbringing of a child. You are merely waving a sign saying "different" and failing to qualify or apply that statement in any useful way.
    lazybones32 wrote: »
    His children would be different to what they are now - for better or worse.

    His children would be different by virtue of the fact they had different parents than the ones they did have. Thats all. You are not coherently constructing an argument as to why they would be different specifically because it was two men. That part you appear to be simply making up out of your own head.
    TheBeardedLady wrote: »
    It's PC to believe, based on science and all evidence thus far, that a child is born gay. I see.

    Not sure what PC has to do with it. It is a call based on a mixture of the evidence - and what gay people are actually telling us of their own feelings and experience.


  • #626
    Ctrl Alt Delete
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    Aren't boards.Ie pols on referundums usually way off the mark In terms outcome


  • #627
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    darced wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Where? Provide links.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #628
    TheBeardedLady
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,086 ✭✭✭TheBeardedLady


    haveringchick wrote: »
    It's not PC. Or maybe it is. Do you believe that people make a choice to be gay then? Why on earth would anyone be bothered to do that then? What advantages in life does being gay give anyone?

    You missed my sarcasm. Thought I conveyed it well.


  • #629
    TheBeardedLady
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,086 ✭✭✭TheBeardedLady


    reprise wrote: »
    The right don't drag out of every politically correct bandwagon.

    Reprise you said yourself that someone stating that a gay person is born that way is jumping on the "PC bandwagon". Gerry Adams' comment was based on evidence as opposed a hunch or religious beliefs. I have no idea what political correctness has got to do with this.


  • #630
    MrPudding
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    reprise wrote: »
    Is what he said right?
    It certainly seems that way... Assuming you are heterosexual, do you have to choose to find members of the opposite sex attractive? Whilst that is very simplistic, it is some indication that sexuality is something that most people have no control over.

    There is a lot of scientific material out there eon this subject, and a lot of it is accessible and understandable by the layman.

    Again, if you are interested in educating yourself about the subject there is plenty of material for you to read.

    MrP


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  • #631
    Sofiztikated
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Sofiztikated


    I have missed a bit of the thread, because, lets be honest, there is a lot of waffle from everyone.

    To the ones arguing you need a man and a woman to raise a child, I ask a couple of questions.

    1. What if it's a really effeminate man and a woman raising a child?

    2. What if it's a really butch woman and a man raising a child?

    3. What if it's a butch woman and an effeminate man?

    4. What if it's 2 women, but one has a strong paternal figure, such as her father?

    5. Of these 2 couple that raise children, who can you say might be the better parents - Kanye West and Kim Kardashian or Neil Patrick Harris and David Burtka? Why?

    6. If a man and woman solely practice anal sex, do they have any less right to get married than a couple that practice vaginal intercourse?


This discussion has been closed.
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