Judge renames child

moc moc a moc · 27-01-2015 01:01AM

K4t wrote: »

Disappointed in a country that very recently was being hailed by the world as a defender of freedom of expression.

Had the parents tried to change their own names to those of delicious snacks, then that would have been an example of freedom of expression. Attempting to name their helpless child in such a ridiculous manner, however, is not much short of psychological abuse.

K4t wrote: »

You only realise the most important things in life when they are gone.

Such as (for example) a person's chance to go through childhood without being teased because of a ridiculous name?

bodice ripper · 27-01-2015 01:01AM

My first name is a brand name. Childhood was bull****. Made me the narky bitch I am today. So the was a silver lining.

Venus In Furs · 27-01-2015 01:03AM

bodice ripper wrote: »

My first name is a brand name... silver lining.

KitKat?

bodice ripper · 27-01-2015 01:05AM

Venus In Furs wrote: »

KitKat?

Nope.

MarkAnthony · 27-01-2015 01:08AM

Someone once told me I couldn't please everyone, I wasn't a jar of Nutella. This poor kid has been denied their opportunity! :pac:

endacl · 27-01-2015 01:13AM

That judge did the child a favour. Nutella is a hazelnut spread. Or 'noisette' in French, which in turn is a slang term in France for...

... well, let's just say the French invented the bidet in order to deal with intimate 'noisette' removal...

K4t · 27-01-2015 01:35AM

Venus In Furs wrote: »

And surely imposing expression on someone (in this case a name on a child that they're very likely to be miserable with) is the exact opposite to freedom of speech?

Again you're making a massive assumption that the child will be "miserable" with that name. All parents impose expression on their kids. So she has a new, 'normal' name. Great. Say the child also had a lisp, should a judge order the child be given therapy to cure said lisp? Say the child is taught by her parents to use vulgar language, should a judge order the parents to unlearn their child of those words? Say the child is taught to write with her left hand, should a judge order the parents to teach her to write with her right?

moc moc a moc wrote: »

Attempting to name their helpless child in such a ridiculous manner, however, is not much short of psychological abuse.

And what if they raise their child not to judge others by trivial things such as a person's name and to simply shrug off or ignore those who do? Are the parents of kids who would bully someone because of their name not in fact the ones who have engaged in some form of psychological abuse along the way?

Such as (for example) a person's chance to go through childhood without being teased because of a ridiculous name?

And what if the same child is teased anyway? What if she is bullied and commits suicide like so many young people with perfectly "normal" names have done? Do we celebrate the fact that at least she had an acceptable name? It'll look better on the headstone I suppose.

liam24 · 27-01-2015 01:36AM

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

They'd nickname the child Nutty

Nutty means beautiful in French.

ezra_pound · 27-01-2015 01:40AM

I'm going to name my next child panda after my favourite chocolate spread.

27-01-2015 01:45AM

The Cunning Linguist wrote: »

:eek:

I'm not easily shocked, but that just seems really inappropriate. You're linking a child's name to a tragedy where people died, man.

It's satire. It's ok. Either everything's ok or nothing is! :P

Nutella is only slightly worse than all the Kayden, Jayden and Braydens running around. Little 5 year old lads with pornstar names.

Venus In Furs · 27-01-2015 01:45AM

K4t wrote: »

Again you're making a massive assumption that the child will be "miserable" with that name.

I'm saying it's very likely, which it is.

Say the child also had a lisp, should a judge order the child be given therapy to cure said lisp? Say the child is taught by her parents to use vulgar language, should a judge order the parents to unlearn their child of those words? Say the child is taught to write with her left hand, should a judge order the parents to teach her to write with her right?

What's with all these poor analogies? A lisp is not imposed by parents, a judge can't know about swearing in the home, being left-handed is not imposed by parents, and isn't even a blip on the radar these days.

And what if they raise their child not to judge others by trivial things such as a person's name and to simply shrug off or ignore those who do? Are the parents of kids who would bully someone because of their name not in fact the ones who have engaged in some form of psychological abuse along the way?

And what if the same child is teased anyway? What if she is bullied and commits suicide like so many young people with perfectly "normal" names have done? Do we celebrate the fact that at least she had an acceptable name? It'll look better on the headstone I suppose.

No we don't. The rhetorical questions and putting words into people's mouths is poor standard. If a child is bullied anyway, then people don't think "Well at least they had a normal name" - don't be so facetious.
Does this REALLY bother you? I don't think it does and you're looking for attention/arguing for the sake of it.
Good luck!

K4t · 27-01-2015 01:53AM

Venus In Furs wrote: »

I'm saying it's very likely, which it is.

What's with all these poor analogies? A lisp is not imposed by parents, a judge can't know about swearing in the home, being left-handed is not imposed by parents, and isn't even a blip on the radar these days.

No we don't. The rhetorical questions and putting words into people's mouths is poor standard. If a child is bullied anyway, then people don't think "Well at least they had a normal name" - don't be so facetious.
Does this REALLY bother you? I don't think it does and you're looking for attention/arguing for the sake of it.
Good luck!

What I'm trying to say is that your name does not define you or come even close to doing so. How you are raised and how you behave towards others is what defines a person. A judge coming along and saying that a child's name is going to have such a huge impact on her life that it is necessary to use the law and his power to change that name to something that he feels is more normal or acceptable is ridiculous to me. And it astonishes me that so many agree with the decision, and the fact that he was allowed make it.

Would I call my own child nutella? Probably not. But I'd never want another parent to not be allowed do so. And I'd raise my own children never to bully another child. That is how society should work, and the society we should strive for. And we can get there, but not with decisions like this.

Venus In Furs · 27-01-2015 02:12AM

Fair enough. Sorry for the "you're looking for attention/arguing for the sake of it" thing.
Yes, what you refer to is the ideal, and a judge making such a decision is overkill I think too, but calling your child something ludicrous for the craic is unfair on the child (nobody else) IMO. Even if it doesn't lead to bullying (which it may not) it could cause the child to feel self-conscious and embarrassed, no matter how much their parents have imbued them with values about how they shouldn't care what others think.

Andy-Pandy · 27-01-2015 02:23AM

I've never tried nutella

Aubrey loves Joe · 27-01-2015 08:53PM

Can't see the name nutella spreading to here

AlanS181824 · 27-01-2015 08:55PM

Nutella, poor child!

tayto lover · 27-01-2015 08:58PM

K4t wrote: »

It's a great name. Don't be silly.

Well my son Figroll hates the name Nutella.

pickarooney · 27-01-2015 09:01PM

I bought a jar of speculoos spread for my crepes. It's fantastic.

K4t · 27-01-2015 09:22PM

Venus In Furs wrote: »

Fair enough. Sorry for the "you're looking for attention/arguing for the sake of it" thing.
Yes, what you refer to is the ideal, and a judge making such a decision is overkill I think too, but calling your child something ludicrous for the craic is unfair on the child (nobody else) IMO. Even if it doesn't lead to bullying (which it may not) it could cause the child to feel self-conscious and embarrassed, no matter how much their parents have imbued them with values about how they shouldn't care what others think.

Fair enough, but again you're making a lot of assumptions.

At the end of the day, this girl's parents went slightly against the norm and attempted to be original in the name they chose for their new born daughter. On the scale of crazy names, Nutella doesn't even come close to the extreme end of things imo. It sounds quite nice in fact and if you repeat it out loud a few times you can imagine a little girl in front of you rather than a jar of nutella. That to me is something amazing and displays the beauty of language and human endeavour.

strobe · 27-01-2015 09:36PM

I think this sh1t is bollox. Let the parents name the kids what they want. Maybe if they name it "Dirty Ugly Sh1tface Niggger*" then you can query it. But 'Nutella', or 'Lego' or 'Rose', go fvck yourself. Mind your own business. I knew a kid named Razor growing up and another named Gretta, they got on grand. Keep your fvcking nose out.

"Oh but they might get teased about it!??!?!?!??!!" So what? A lad I went to school with was called Simon. Got called Garfunkel til he was about 16 and asked where Mrs Robinson was.

K4t · 27-01-2015 09:44PM

strobe wrote: »

I think this sh1t is bollox. Let the parents name the kids what they want. Maybe if they name it "Dirty Ugly Sh1tface Niggger*" then you can query it. But 'Nutella', or 'Lego' or 'Rose', go fvck yourself. Mind your own business. I knew a kid named Razor growing up and another named Gretta, they got on grand. Keep your fvcking nose out.

Some sense at last.

And just on young "Dirty Ugly Sh1tface *******", that name is the least of his worries if he is going to be raised by those who gave it to him.

wendell borton · 27-01-2015 10:12PM

Carlos the jackal was named Ilyich by his father, he subsequently became a hard line Marxist and the worlds greatest terrorist.
Maybe baby nutella will grow to be full of nutty goodness?

Cee-Jay-Cee · 28-01-2015 02:03AM

K4t wrote: »

A judge in Valenciennes, northern France, took a tough stance against a couple who tried to call their child Nutella in September 2014, after a "shocked" registrar reported their choice to the local prosecutor.

La Voix du Nord newspaper reported that the judge said giving the child "the name of a chocolate spread" was against the girl’s interests, as it “might lead to mockery and unpleasant remarks”. He also noted that the name Nutella is the official brand name of the chocolate spread product.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/french-parents-banned-from-naming-their-child-nutella-or-fraise-10003146.html

Is he also changing the names of all kids called Muhammad who face discrimination in France?

I wonder if the girl was a muslim would he have changed her religion so as to avoid any "mockery and unpleasant remarks"?

We may aswell just scrap names and go by our social security numbers so situations like this won't arise and we can eliminate bullying and offense completely.

Did you read what you typed before hitting the post button? What has religion got yo do with anything? He didn't change her religion or make any mention about religion. He stopped a child growing up with a stupid ridiculous name.

Pity we didn't have judges with the same powers here, maybe then we wouldn't have as many Shakira Murphy's, Beyoncé O'Leary and Shania Duggan's about the place.

Venus In Furs · 28-01-2015 02:08AM

K4t wrote: »

Fair enough, but again you're making a lot of assumptions.

No more than you are I guess. I'm taking probability into account.

At the end of the day, this girl's parents went slightly against the norm and attempted to be original in the name they chose for their new born daughter

Yep, for them, not for their daughter. Calling your kid after a chocolate spread - it is reasonable to assume this would cause ridicule of her. I think it's dishonest to rule that out.

Cookie_Monster · 28-01-2015 04:16AM

strobe wrote: »

I think this sh1t is bollox. Let the parents name the kids what they want. Maybe if they name it "Dirty Ugly Sh1tface Niggger*" then you can query it. But 'Nutella', or 'Lego' or 'Rose', go fvck yourself. Mind your own business. I knew a kid named Razor growing up and another named Gretta, they got on grand. Keep your fvcking nose out.

Common practice over here, all names in NZ get vetted for suitability

Since 1995, legislation has provided a set of rules for acceptable names for New Zealanders where "a name, or combination of names, should not cause offence, be unreasonably long or resemble an official title or rank," a spokesperson for New Zealand's department of internal affairs told Sky News.
...
Germany, Sweden, Japan, Denmark, Iceland, China and Norway also have naming laws.

Here’s the list of New Zealand’s banned names and the number of occurrences since 2001:

Justice:62
King:31
Princess:28
Prince:27
Royal:25
Duke:10
Major:9
Bishop:9
Majesty:7
J:6
Lucifer:6
using brackets around middle names:4
Knight:4
Lady:3
using back slash between names:8
Judge:3
Royale:2
Messiah:2
T:2
I:2
Queen:2
II:2
Sir:2
III:2
Jr:2
E:2
V:2
Justus:2
Master:2
Constable:1
Queen Victoria:1
Regal:1
Emperor:1
Christ:1
Juztice:1
3rd:1
C J :1
G:1
Roman numerals III:1
General:1
Saint:1
Lord:1
. (full stop):1
89:1
Eminence:1
M:1
VI:1
Mafia No Fear:1
2nd:1
Majesti:1
Rogue:1
4real:1
(star symbol):1
5th:1
S P:1
C:1
Sargent:1
Honour:1
D:1
Minister:1
MJ:1
Chief:1
Mr:1
V8:1
President:1
MC:1
Anal:1
A.J:1
Baron:1
L B:1
H-Q:1
Queen V:1

JuliusCaesar · 28-01-2015 09:19AM

The other fella wrote: »

Your SSN should be kept private.

What's an SSN? Is this like a PPS?

Shenshen · 28-01-2015 09:55AM

Am I the only one wondering if the kid is black?

volchitsa · 28-01-2015 10:20AM

K4t wrote: »

What I'm trying to say is that your name does not define you or come even close to doing so. How you are raised and how you behave towards others is what defines a person. A judge coming along and saying that a child's name is going to have such a huge impact on her life that it is necessary to use the law and his power to change that name to something that he feels is more normal or acceptable is ridiculous to me. And it astonishes me that so many agree with the decision, and the fact that he was allowed make it.

Would I call my own child nutella? Probably not. But I'd never want another parent to not be allowed do so. And I'd raise my own children never to bully another child. That is how society should work, and the society we should strive for. And we can get there, but not with decisions like this.

I agree with all of that post, except this bit, which worries me somewhat. I think when talking about freedom, it's crucial to distinguish between the freedom to do something oneself and the "freedom" to do something to someone else - including to your children.
Most parents do have their children's best interests at heart, but some don't. Some really don't. Others think they do, but for whatever reason end up doing things that have the opposite effect.
OTOH, I'm unsure where I stand on stopping parents doing something not because it is inherently bad but because of other people's negative reactions. I don't know.

But OMG - Nutella??? What were they thinking? :eek:

volchitsa · 28-01-2015 10:28AM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Common practice over here
...
New Zealand’s banned names and the number of occurrences since 2001:

Anal

:eek:

Seriously?
(And I thought Nutella was bad! :rolleyes:)

I guess this is the thing - either we accept that parents don't always have the right to decide the name, and a method for reviewing it exists, or we do, in which case it's just a question of how strict the limits placed on parents are. Going by that list, I'm coming to the conclusion that there apparently do need to be some limits. How could anyone call someone they actually care for "Anal"? That has to be a sign of something seriously wrong in their relationship to that child. Doesn't it?

OP, is your problem just with the name Nutella, or with the very idea that parents shouldn't have the final say on their child's name, no matter what?

fryup · 28-01-2015 10:31AM

K4t wrote: »

That is how society should work, and the society we should strive for. And we can get there, but not with decisions like this.

c'mon now its all very well striving for a better society....that doesn't mean a jot on the school play-yard...children are the cruelest and will always pick up on ways to target other kids

Judge renames child

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